How can overcrowding on trains from Southampton Central be appreciated?

[RT4038]

It isn't wrong that those passengers go by coach though, and not by train. It may even make considerably more sense for them to do so, if that is the best way of coping with excess demand.

including excess demand of luggage space!

 

[BayPaul]

I would question home town bit, it appears many of these coach services go from motorway service stations, so going to have to travel to get to start point

True, but very few people live in walking distance with heavy luggage of a major railway station, so any public transport option is likely to involve a lift or taxi.

 

[30907]

You can book the services with Eavesway (they call it Cruise link). they have already specified the timetable, and allow you to book for 2025.

Single and return fares available (examples are
£150 return from Newcastle
£115 return from Leeds, Preston
£100 from Nottingham, Stoke on Trent

Eavesway Travel - Cruiselink, Private Hire and Executive Coaches

Luxury coach hire executive corporate coach travel and cruise passenger coaches to Southampton port

www.eaveswaytravel.com

Clearly XC (and other long distance) rail operators don't want to compete because they aren't prepared to let you book at same time as booking cruise. They simply wont allow you to book for 2025

As basic outline rail timetables tend to be determined 12-24 months in advance, and major line closures tend to be known about within rail industry on similar long lead time, not being able to sell tickets to one destination that can be reached by multiple routes is quite poor thinking

TOCs/Cruise firms could offer an Inclusive Tour fare in the same way, mail you when reservations open so you could choose exactly when to travel (eg allow an overnight in Soton on the way out/back....). More flexible than a coach.

Trouble is those 23kg bags aren't really suited to rail, so you then have to offer a baggage service....while your typical coach can handle that easily.

 

[WAO]

As a frequent cruiser, I have been amazed at the quality of service the cruise lines uniformly offer and wish that the InterCity franchises had gone to P&O - except that the DfT would have driven down the quality by pricing.

There are railway sidings alongside the Mayflower Cruise Terminal and there a are number of quality rakes of Mk1,2,3 private excursion stock around, given BG's for the cases.

I believe a boat train was tried for one of Cunard's new ships but it was very delayed, which cruise ships don't like.

The coach links are well managed and punctual but tiresome and quite pricey. Also road access from the M27/M271 is very difficult on a cruise day (come off instead for the A33, Basset Avenue, Winchester Rd., Hill Lane, past the station, direct to gate10!).

However, a friend travelled from York to Southampton via XC Voyager to join us on a cruise, had a seat all the way and arrived early!

The railway does have a role here, being volume hungry but it needs a certain elevation of hosiery.

WAO

 

[JonathanH]

As a frequent cruiser, I have been amazed at the quality of service the cruise lines uniformly offer and wish that the InterCity franchises had gone to P&O - except that the DfT would have driven down the quality by pricing.

Let's be very clear here that P&O Cruises is a brand name of Carnival, and the last thing anyone would have wanted is the ferry operator, the ports operator, both part of DP World, or the container operator, now part of Maersk, running the InterCity franchises.

It is great to hear that the cruise offering is so good, but the cruise lines have long since ceased to be a form of transport, and their function is one purely of travel for pleasure.

 

[WAO]

It is great to hear that the cruise offering is so good, but the cruise lines have long since ceased to be a form of transport, and their function is one purely of travel for pleasure.

P&O is run by UK management (the US directors were impressed with them but not the UK Board Directors), along with other Carnival brands, from Southampton.

They do do transport very well.

They also make their journeys a pleasure, which the railway could well copy.

WAO

 

[Anonymous10]

P&O is run by UK management (the US directors were impressed with them but not the UK Board Directors), along with other Carnival brands, from Southampton.

They do do transport very well.

They also make their journeys a pleasure, which the railway could well copy.

WAO

It is worth noting that it is a luxury, the railways need to balance that with affordability. As most people would use it more if they can get a seat, ran to time and was affordable.

 

[WAO]

...c£100. per day full 4* board, transport and entertainment. (I should be on commission!). Compare that to a walk on peak single.

The pity is not that the Voyagers are bad (I like them, smell apart, and have used them regularly for 12 years) but that there aren't enough of them for XC demand.

WAO

 

[Energy]

The pity is not that the Voyagers are bad (I like them, smell apart, and have used them regularly for 12 years) but that there aren't enough of them for XC demand.

Unfortunately additional capacity for cruise ships is going to be difficult to do as long as the Voyagers are at XC. Take the class 802s at TPE, they have 320 standard & 24 first compared to the 174 standard & 26 first of a 4 car class 220. If XC operated the 802s then 1 unit should be enough for XC traffic, so additional capacity for cruise ships would just be running the occasional train as 10 cars. Currently, the 220s often need to be double sets just to cope with XC's demand.

 

[Wychwood93]

Unfortunately additional capacity for cruise ships is going to be difficult to do as long as the Voyagers are at XC. Take the class 802s at TPE, they have 320 standard & 24 first compared to the 174 standard & 26 first of a 4 car class 220. If XC operated the 802s then 1 unit should be enough for XC traffic, so additional capacity for cruise ships would just be running the occasional train as 10 cars. Currently, the 220s often need to be double sets just to cope with XC's demand.

Additional capacity in general is always going to stumble across the issue of luggage - modern rolling stock is not good at that, especially the number of hefty cases that cruise passengers appear to need. That will remain the problem until operators/DfT etc. have an unlikely change of heart.

 

[Snow1964]

Additional capacity in general is always going to stumble across the issue of luggage - modern rolling stock is not good at that, especially the number of hefty cases that cruise passengers appear to need. That will remain the problem until operators/DfT etc. have an unlikely change of heart.

I guess it would be possible (in theory, even if currently unfunded) to have a dedicated fleet on cruise feeder routes with extra luggage racks.

It is not a revolutionary idea, the 322s were basically 321s configured with extra luggage capacity. Going back further a batch of 4VEPs with extra luggage capacity were formed, classified 4VEG (converted back to standard when Gatwick Express mk2Fs arrived)

 

[6Gman]

I guess it would be possible (in theory, even if currently unfunded) to have a dedicated fleet on cruise feeder routes with extra luggage racks.

It is not a revolutionary idea, the 322s were basically 321s configured with extra luggage capacity. Going back further a batch of 4VEPs with extra luggage capacity were formed, classified 4VEG (converted back to standard when Gatwick Express mk2Fs arrived)

But they were for services that were carrying airline passengers on a daily basis, not one day a week cruise passengers.

Incidentally, if there is some spare stock to be deployed I think there are some existing services that may be of higher priority. Chester today (for example), crowded platform waiting for the 1620-ish to Holyhead. And a screen saying "2 carriages" ...

 

[Kite159]

Luggage is a big factor, especially when you get Uncle Bert & Auntie Doris packing the kitchen sink. Going by coach they can get the driver to store their suitcases on the coach then relax as they head to Southampton. Going by train means trying to find somewhere in which to put their luggage and worry about getting a seat on XC etc.

The 444s used by SWR are rubbish when it comes to luggage space, yes they have overhead racks but some people don't use them as it's too hard to lift bags up

 

[30907]

For the first time in decades I went down the SWML on Saturday. The 1035 was well patronised by cruise passengers with large bags, which they seemed to manage to stow (on seats, etc - you'd never have fitted them on the racks!), but I would guess there were no more than 50 in all. Whether an August Saturday would have been worse for general crowdong I don't know.
To me this confirms that the problem is a one- way one following criose arrivals.

 

[BayPaul]

For the first time in decades I went down the SWML on Saturday. The 1035 was well patronised by cruise passengers with large bags, which they seemed to manage to stow (on seats, etc - you'd never have fitted them on the racks!), but I would guess there were no more than 50 in all. Whether an August Saturday would have been worse for general crowdong I don't know.
To me this confirms that the problem is a one- way one following criose arrivals.

There's not a massive difference between a Saturday in June and one in August from a cruise traffic point of view. Southampton tends to have 5 large cruise ships in port every Saturday throughout the summer, and pretty much every cabin will be fully booked. In summer holidays there will be more children in upper berths, but not otherwise a real change.

 

[Snow1964]

Going back to the initial post about railway being busy with cruise passengers at Southampton, some statistics for May have been announced

The Associated British Ports (ABP) has reported the Port of Southampton, located on the southern coast of England, welcomed a record number of cruise vessels in May 2024, marking a high point for the start of the 2024 cruise season.

The port saw 26 different cruise ships making a total of 71 calls with more than 400,000 passengers.

On May 18th (the day @SECR263 opening post refers to) was a massive 24,580 passengers

Norwegian Cruise Line’s (NCL) Norwegian Star, MSC Cruises MSC Virtuosa, P&O Cruises’ Aurora and Iona, and TUI Cruises’ Mein Schiff each arrived before 7 a.m. They did not depart until after 4 p.m., bringing a total of 24,580 passengers and crew to town on the super Saturday.

Top 10 Busiest US Cruise Homeports

It's time to find out the official top 10 busiest cruise homeports in the United States, including major hubs in Florida.

www.cruisehive.com

 

[30907]

There's not a massive difference between a Saturday in June and one in August from a cruise traffic point of view. Southampton tends to have 5 large cruise ships in port every Saturday throughout the summer, and pretty much every cabin will be fully booked. In summer holidays there will be more children in upper berths, but not otherwise a real change.

Sorry, was meaning general holiday traffic rather than extra cruise passengers

 

[zwk500]

On May 18th ... was a massive 24,580 passengers

24,500 passengers over 9 hours compares favourable to a Southampton FC home game, which sees 32,300 over approximately 4-6 hours

 

[30907]

24,500 passengers over 9 hours compares favourable to a Southampton FC home game, which sees 32,300 over approximately 4-6 hours

True, but 24,500 23kg suitcases ...