• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

RailUK Forums ticketing website fees.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gaspode

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2023
Messages
6
Location
UK
I can't seem to find details of the fee I will be charged for my split tickets ahead of making a booking enquiry.

The i that comes up next to the split price merely says the fee is up to 15%. What is the precise fee structure and shouldn't this be easy to find from the homepage before making a booking?
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
16,842
Location
UK
The fee is 15% of any saving found by splitting, although I understand there is a maximum fee.
 

MrJeeves

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
28 Aug 2015
Messages
4,740
Location
Burgess Hill
although I understand there is a maximum fee.
Yes, 15% but capped to a maximum share of £25 as of writing.

Some people might be surprised how easily you can hit that when booking for multiple people. A search I just did from Plymouth to Edinburgh for 2 adults + 1 child saved ~£440 because there were no cheap through advances (they actually cost more than the flexible single) available.

1715983113523.png
1715983116220.png
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
15% up to £25 on a single journey, plus normal commision strikes me as expensive for whats basically just a computer program.
 

pdq

Member
Joined
7 Oct 2010
Messages
902
15% up to £25 on a single journey, plus normal commision strikes me as expensive for whats basically just a computer program.
...which someone very skilled had to write, and subsequently maintain and develop.
 

ivorytoast28

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2018
Messages
256
Location
Sheffield
15% up to £25 on a single journey, plus normal commision strikes me as expensive for whats basically just a computer program.
It's also super easy to avoid should you wish by booking the listed tickets yourself, but many happily pay as thanks for the saving or simplicity - do as you please
 

Trainbike46

Established Member
Joined
18 Sep 2021
Messages
4,383
Location
belfast
15% up to £25 on a single journey, plus normal commision strikes me as expensive for whats basically just a computer program.
Have you ever had to pay for a licence for any software? Computer programmes are often expensive - especially if it specialist or requires frequent updates.

Though personally I would go through the effort of adding the splits manually to my basket on the same website that suggested the split if the fee was more than I would be willing to pay - an option that is open to anyone, though it is really important to do it on the forum's website, so that they still get the commission from your purchase if not the fee
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
Have you ever had to pay for a licence for any software? Computer programmes are often expensive - especially if it specialist or requires frequent updates.
Obviously, but I baulk at paying up to £25 plus commision for a single use.
 

MrJeeves

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
28 Aug 2015
Messages
4,740
Location
Burgess Hill
Obviously, but I baulk at paying up to £25 plus commission for a single use.
It's not worth saving £166 in exchange for £25? (I can't be bothered to do the maths to exclude the share of saving from that number.)

Not sure what the "plus commission" is referring to. Commission is a fixed cut of the ticket price that goes to the retailer from RDG, and is not a cost passed on to the customer as any kind of additional fee. You pay this "commission" when buying any rail ticket from any retailer.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
18,164
Obviously, but I baulk at paying up to £25 plus commision for a single use.
You make it sound as though you pay up to £25 and commission. You don’t.

What you do pay is 15% of the value of any saving Trainsplit identifies, called at £25. If no saving is identified then there’s no share of saving to pay.

For every ticket sold, anywhere, a percentage of it goes to the retailer. It’s a small fee for online ticket purchases. I can’t remember the exact amount but it’s something like 5%
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
6,920
Obviously, but I baulk at paying up to £25 plus commision for a single use.
Does anyone sell a ticket without charging RDG commission...? And if so, is that saving passed onto the consumer...?
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
Does anyone sell a ticket without charging RDG commission...? And if so, is that saving passed onto the consumer...?
Currently I get 10% cashback from LNER, 5% cashback from tpe and 10% credit from Uber.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
18,164
Currently I get 10% cashback from LNER, 5% cashback from tpe and 10% credit from Uber.
I get similar, and I do make use of them.

But if I use Trainsplit to identify split ticket opportunities then I do purchase through them because my view is it is unethical not to do so. I’m not comfortable using their systems and then buying from somewhere else. If everyone did that Trainsplit would not exist and everyone would lose out.

Today I’ve travelled to Bath to see a rugby match using a combination of tickets. I identified the combination and have been using them for many years before Trainsplit was a thing (since at least 2008!). I didn't use Trainsplit to buy these tickets but if I do purchase via the site I add the tickets separately to the basket because at least then Trainsplit (and in turn the forum) gets some benefit.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
24,885
Does anyone sell a ticket without charging RDG commission...? And if so, is that saving passed onto the consumer...?
The "RDG commission" is part of the ticket price and is always charged.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,637
Location
Yorkshire
Currently I get 10% cashback from LNER, 5% cashback from tpe and 10% credit from Uber.
Do they consistently offer you the best deals? Or do you ever check Trainsplit for cheaper deals, leach the information, and use that for financial gain to book on a site that had wanted to charge you more for the journey?

It's unfortunate, there is no practical way to prevent scraping/leeching.
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
6,920
The "RDG commission" is part of the ticket price and is always charged.
That's what I was getting at. It seems an odd thing to complain about.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Currently I get 10% cashback from LNER, 5% cashback from tpe and 10% credit from Uber.
Okay, but what does that have to do with RDG commission? That's cashback.
 

redreni

Established Member
Joined
24 Sep 2010
Messages
2,766
Location
Slade Green
Have you ever had to pay for a licence for any software? Computer programmes are often expensive - especially if it specialist or requires frequent updates.

Though personally I would go through the effort of adding the splits manually to my basket on the same website that suggested the split if the fee was more than I would be willing to pay - an option that is open to anyone, though it is really important to do it on the forum's website, so that they still get the commission from your purchase if not the fee
And if you really think the fee is excessive, you can do as you suggest and then add a donation that strikes you as fair.

To me £25 would seem perfectly fair if the site had genuinely saved me more than six times that amount on tickets that I would have bought anyway, however, it may be that the through fare that the site uses as a basis for comparison is not one that I would have paid. It may be that I would have driven, flown or travelled by coach if I hadn't found splits on the forum's site. In that case, a share of any saving I've made compared to those other modes might seem a fairer reflection of the value I've had from the resource.

In practice I just pay the fee (though it's never been anywhere near £25, so far!).
 

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
And if you really think the fee is excessive, you can do as you suggest and then add a donation that strikes you as fair.

To me £25 would seem perfectly fair if the site had genuinely saved me more than six times that amount on tickets that I would have bought anyway, however, it may be that the through fare that the site uses as a basis for comparison is not one that I would have paid. It may be that I would have driven, flown or travelled by coach if I hadn't found splits on the forum's site. In that case, a share of any saving I've made compared to those other modes might seem a fairer reflection of the value I've had from the resource.

In practice I just pay the fee (though it's never been anywhere near £25, so far!).
This is the crux of the matter for me and I suspect its because of my home location on the Kent coast. Trainsplit is trying to charge me a fee of 15% based on an expensive cross-London fare that I would never buy. That then looks expensive when its a £6+ fee on a ticket cost of £24
In practise its no longer my first point of call because of the incentives offered elsewhere and Im using LNER because of the cashback offer even though I think my travel on LNER services has been limited to 1 return trip between Kings Cross and Peterborough in the last year.
Currently the only tickets i buy through trainsplit are those to Underground Zones, usually to pick up an Intercity Coach at Finchley Road/ Golders Green. As these are always TOD I rather imagine that trainsplit looses money on them.
I can see it would be different if your travel included a lot of journeys on something like Cross-country but thats of little use to those of us in the southeast.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,637
Location
Yorkshire
This is the crux of the matter for me and I suspect its because of my home location on the Kent coast. Trainsplit is trying to charge me a fee of 15% based on an expensive cross-London fare that I would never buy.
Why are you searching for a part of the journey you would never buy?

Given you buy tickets from the other companies you suggest, and given you never buy the cross London element, why is it you appear to be comparing a search from Kent on Trainsplit with a search from the other side of London, on other sites?

Unless there is something we are missing, something doesn't quite add up.

That then looks expensive when its a £6+ fee on a ticket cost of £24
If you are saving £90 compared to the other sites, then how come they don't look expensive?

In practise its no longer my first point of call because of the incentives offered elsewhere and Im using LNER because of the cashback offer even though I think my travel on LNER services has been limited to 1 return trip between Kings Cross and Peterborough in the last year.
Does anyone know how LNER can afford to offer this cashback? Is it taxpayer funded, I wonder? Perhaps an FOI request could be in order.

Currently the only tickets i buy through trainsplit are those to Underground Zones, usually to pick up an Intercity Coach at Finchley Road/ Golders Green. As these are always TOD I rather imagine that trainsplit looses money on them.

I can see it would be different if your travel included a lot of journeys on something like Cross-country but thats of little use to those of us in the southeast.
If Trainsplit doesn't save money for your journeys, there wouldn't be a fee, as the only fee is where there is a saving. And if the saving is very small, the fee is going to be small as you get to keep 85 per cent of any saving.

So I'm not sure if there is some confusion here, or maybe shifting of goalposts.

If there is a journey where you feel the fee is too high, feel free to post a link to it and a screenshot and we can certainly look into it.

There have been some edge cases where there can be issues regarding choosing the correct fare to compare with, but constructive feedback is always positively received.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

And if you really think the fee is excessive, you can do as you suggest and then add a donation that strikes you as fair.

To me £25 would seem perfectly fair if the site had genuinely saved me more than six times that amount on tickets that I would have bought anyway, however, it may be that the through fare that the site uses as a basis for comparison is not one that I would have paid. It may be that I would have driven, flown or travelled by coach if I hadn't found splits on the forum's site. In that case, a share of any saving I've made compared to those other modes might seem a fairer reflection of the value I've had from the resource.

In practice I just pay the fee (though it's never been anywhere near £25, so far!).
All good points and one thing I feel train companies don't like to admit, is that sites such as the forum's/Trainsplit can, and do, actually grow the market.

Train companies typically seem to take the view that the fare is the fare, and that if anyone is paying less than that (e.g. by starting or finishing short, or buying a loophole ticket, or a combination of tickets) then any shortfall is lost revenue to the railway, without accepting the possibility that some people are only prepared to travel if the fare is reduced to the level they are paying.

For example if there was no way to pay less than £19.40 for an inter-available York to Leeds fare, I would always travel by either bus (£4) or by Northern (£13.80) and never ever make that journey on TPE or XC.

I met a financial director of a TOC on a train to York a while back, and I put it to them that split ticket sites actually grew the market; they did actually agree with me. Of course this was very much off the record, and there is no way TOCs would officially admit this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I can't seem to find details of the fee I will be charged for my split tickets ahead of making a booking enquiry.

The i that comes up next to the split price merely says the fee is up to 15%. What is the precise fee structure and shouldn't this be easy to find from the homepage before making a booking?
There is no booking fee and no fee added to the price displayed. The full price is advertised at the earliest stage, so you can be confident that id the actual price.

There is only a fee where the site has identified a saving compared to the price that a train company would ask you to pay, for the same journey.

Where these prices differ, 85 per cent of the saving is handed to you, with 15 per cent retained by the site (and then distributed, with the forum receiving a proportion of it).

It all adds up and helps support the forum, and enables us to keep adverts non-intrusive and offer other activities such as free fares workshops, we also ran a free Photoshop workshop too.

Also if anyone reading this would like to attend a forum meal, get in touch if you have never attended one before as we may be able to provide your first meal on us.
 
Last edited:

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,992
Location
K
Why are you searching for a part of the journey you would never buy?

Given you buy tickets from the other companies you suggest, and given you never buy the cross London element, why is it you appear to be comparing a search from Kent on Trainsplit with a search from the other side of London, on other sites?

Unless there is something we are missing, something doesn't quite add up.
Because on certain routes north of London (MML, Avanti to Chester) northbound there are still bargain advances available, about a month ago I travelled to Sheffield from Rye for about £3 more than a single to St Pancras. Southbound as Im often returning late evening there are even more routes available at bargain prices.
As a consequence on a day football trip I often now travel north on Megabus or Flix to the northwest and return on an Avanti service.
If cheap tickets on those routes are not available i then resort to splitting in London or known savers such as LNR trent valley services, route Kenny Olympia tickets etc. often with a change in ticket type mid journey or an overlap or a coach operator. I would never buy the full price LNER or Avanti plus connections ticket that trainsplit base their fee on.
If you are saving £90 compared to the other sites, then how come they don't look expensive?
Because Im not saving £90 and a £6 fee for using a computer program is too expensive when that is the flixbus single to Manchester Airport.

If Trainsplit doesn't save money for your journeys, there wouldn't be a fee, as the only fee is where there is a saving. And if the saving is very small, the fee is going to be small as you get to keep 85 per cent of any saving.

So I'm not sure if there is some confusion here, or maybe shifting of goalposts.

If there is a journey where you feel the fee is too high, feel free to post a link to it and a screenshot and we can certainly look into it.
Theres no shifting of goalposts here or confusion on my part. The bottom line is that many people can do the same travel much cheaper than trainsplit because they will consider modes that trainsplit doesnt, ticket overlaps, partial railcard journeys that trainsplit doesnt. Trainsplits fees are imho too expensive- if trainsplit cant make a business case on reduced fees thats not really my problem anymore than why LNER give me 10% discount and then 2% perks on their own tickets
 

ChrisC

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
2,277
Location
Nottinghamshire
But if I use Trainsplit to identify split ticket opportunities then I do purchase through them because my view is it is unethical not to do so. I’m not comfortable using their systems and then buying from somewhere else. If everyone did that Trainsplit would not exist and everyone would lose out.

Today I’ve travelled to Bath to see a rugby match using a combination of tickets. I identified the combination and have been using them for many years before Trainsplit was a thing (since at least 2008!). I didn't use Trainsplit to buy these tickets but if I do purchase via the site I add the tickets separately to the basket because at least then Trainsplit (and in turn the forum) gets some benefit.
I also don‘t feel comfortable using Trainsplit just to identify cheaper split ticket opportunities and then purchase my tickets separately from elsewhere. It wouldn’t be fair and if everyone did that Trainsplit would soon go out of business. I find Trainsplit very useful and appreciate the work that they do and don’t mind paying a few pounds fee if they have saved me quite a bit of money.

However, the amount of fee being asked for needs to be reasonable, and there is one fare in particular that I use occasionally where I will purchase my tickets separately. I do still use the forums booking system through Trainsplit to buy these tickets so at least the forum gets some benefit. Whenever I travel from Nottingham down to Devon and Cornwall I know from past experience to do at least one split at Cheltenham which gives a big saving. Slightly more can be saved by additional splits at Bristol and Tiverton Parkway. I know this, so Trainsplit are not finding me a new split.
XC Anytime through fares are extortionate for this journey and a split at Cheltenham allows a 1 hour earlier start for my return journey which can be done with off peak tickets. Therefore even for just a single traveller using a Senior Railcard, the saving is so large that the maximum £25 fee would be charged. I wouldn’t pay that as it’s something I know about and is an unusual exception caused by XC ridiculous pricing, which only applies to one particular train at around 8.30am. For most other journeys with reasonable sensible pricing I don’t mind paying a small fee to help the work of Trainsplit and the forum.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,637
Location
Yorkshire
Because on certain routes north of London (MML, Avanti to Chester) northbound there are still bargain advances available, about a month ago I travelled to Sheffield from Rye for about £3 more than a single to St Pancras.
And in such cases there won't be any fee, if it's a through advance.
Southbound as Im often returning late evening there are even more routes available at bargain prices.
As a consequence on a day football trip I often now travel north on Megabus or Flix to the northwest and return on an Avanti service.
But none of this really explains what you were saying earlier.
If cheap tickets on those routes are not available i then resort to splitting in London or known savers such as LNR trent valley services, route Kenny Olympia tickets etc. often with a change in ticket type mid journey or an overlap or a coach operator. I would never buy the full price LNER or Avanti plus connections ticket that trainsplit base their fee on.
In that case there isn't going to be much of a fee, if you look at the portion of journey you are going to be making, i.e. if you are making a like for like comparison.

Because Im not saving £90 and a £6 fee for using a computer program is too expensive when that is the flixbus single to Manchester Airport.
I don't understand what comparison you are making, but it sounds like the goalposts are being moved.
Theres no shifting of goalposts here or confusion on my part.
In that case can you provide an example of an actual itinerary where the fee is particularly high, and where you book that journey through one of the other retailers you mentioned?
The bottom line is that many people can do the same travel much cheaper than trainsplit because they will consider modes that trainsplit doesnt,
In that case the comparison wouldn't be with the sites you mentioned but would instead be with a bus, coach or air operator. I doubt this applies to many journeys or many people.

And if they find it expensive when Trainsplit is finding a huge saving of dozens of pounds, then they would find the through train fare really expensive!
ticket overlaps,
That is very niche and again doesn't really fit in with the comparison you made earlier.
partial railcard journeys that trainsplit doesnt.
Are you combining two separate Railcards? If not then Trainsplit will handle this. If so, then again the comparison with other sites isn't fair because they won't do this either!
Trainsplits fees are imho too expensive- if trainsplit cant make a business case on reduced fees thats not really my problem anymore
If everyone did as you do, then it would become your problem as you would no longer be able to use someone else's work for your financial gain.


than why LNER give me 10% discount and then 2% perks on their own tickets
Does anyone know how this is funded? I suspect taxpayers funding is involved as it must be cross subsidised, surely.

Anyway if LNER are offering such great deals, why do you feel the need to use Trainsplit to identify the best prices?
I also don‘t feel comfortable using Trainsplit just to identify cheaper split ticket opportunities and then purchase my tickets separately from elsewhere. It wouldn’t be fair and if everyone did that Trainsplit would soon go out of business. I find Trainsplit very useful and appreciate the work that they do and don’t mind paying a few pounds fee if they have saved me quite a bit of money.

However, the amount of fee being asked for needs to be reasonable, and there is one fare in particular that I use occasionally where I will purchase my tickets separately. I do still use the forums booking system through Trainsplit to buy these tickets so at least the forum gets some benefit.
Indeed; there is no problem doing that :)
Whenever I travel from Nottingham down to Devon and Cornwall I know from past experience to do at least one split at Cheltenham which gives a big saving. Slightly more can be saved by additional splits at Bristol and Tiverton Parkway. I know this, so Trainsplit are not finding me a new split.
In that case you can do searches to/from Cheltenham and put it all in one booking and you avoid the share of savings fee for splitting at Cheltenham:)
XC Anytime through fares are extortionate for this journey and a split at Cheltenham allows a 1 hour earlier start for my return journey which can be done with off peak tickets. Therefore even for just a single traveller using a Senior Railcard, the saving is so large that the maximum £25 fee would be charged. I wouldn’t pay that as it’s something I know about and is an unusual exception caused by XC ridiculous pricing, which only applies to one particular train at around 8.30am. For most other journeys with reasonable sensible pricing I don’t mind paying a small fee to help the work of Trainsplit and the forum.
Problem is there is no easy way to establish a users prior knowledge; the solution is, as you say, to put multiple journeys in your basket and then you reduce (or eliminate) the fee, while still supporting the site.
 

infobleep

On Moderation
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
13,453
There are tickets I buy for journeys I might make that this forums site couldn't find in a search.

Thus if I wish to make even longer journeys, I combine these tickets with the power of forums site to save even further than I othereise could on my own or I l otherwise could solely using the forums site.

No cash back is likely to match the saving, unless it is a ticket I known about that the forums site couldn't bring up for the journey I wish to make.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
17,914
Location
0036
Does anyone know how LNER can afford to offer this cashback? Is it taxpayer funded, I wonder? Perhaps an FOI request could be in order.

Does anyone know how this is funded? I suspect taxpayers funding is involved as it must be cross subsidised, surely.
I understand the 5%/10% cashback is a limited time offer from certain credit cards such as American Express and Lloyds Banking Group, and is funded partially by the card issuers and partially by the merchant.

An FOI request on the subject would fall to be refused under section 43 (2) of the Act (commercially sensitive information).
 

MrJeeves

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
28 Aug 2015
Messages
4,740
Location
Burgess Hill
I understand the 5%/10% cashback is a limited time offer from certain credit cards such as American Express and Lloyds Banking Group, and is funded partially by the card issuers and partially by the merchant.

An FOI request on the subject would fall to be refused under section 43 (2) of the Act (commercially sensitive information).
Details about the cashback offer itself and any agreements between LNER and Amex/Monzo/TopCashback/Quidco/Awin/whoever, sure, but I don't see why details about the funding from LNER would be rejected under FOI.
 

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
2,070
A fundamental problem the likes of Trainsplit have is that even semi-regular / informed travellers will tend to get to know where the best splits usually are. I do not in any way begrudge paying a website the “finders fee” the first time I want to go to someplace even if its £25 and buy from the website, but I do notice what splits I am offered and next time I first try the same splits myself. I might not always get the optimal result second time around doing it myself, but if the saving is similar to the previous occasion or I’m happy with the saving I’ll then just buy direct from a TOC to save more. So for such semi-regular travel, the share of the savings model may not be guaranteed to be sustainable longer term.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,637
Location
Yorkshire
A fundamental problem the likes of Trainsplit have is that even semi-regular / informed travellers will tend to get to know where the best splits usually are. I do not in any way begrudge paying a website the “finders fee” the first time I want to go to someplace even if its £25 and buy from the website, but I do notice what splits I am offered and next time I first try the same splits myself. I might not always get the optimal result second time around doing it myself, but if the saving is similar to the previous occasion or I’m happy with the saving I’ll then just buy direct from a TOC to save more. So for such semi-regular travel, the share of the savings model may not be guaranteed to be sustainable longer term.
In that case, simply add each ticket to your basket separately; no fee would be payable as there is no booking fee.

The forum still benefits by a share of the commission, especially if the fares are high value and/or e-tickets are chosen (rather than TOD, which is expensive to operate and the TOCs pass these costs onto retailers)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top