• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Independent Operators in the Lothians

Bedford OB

Member
Joined
31 Dec 2022
Messages
151
Location
Ilford
The number of independant bus operators in the Lothians does seem to be ever decreasing, what with Eve now bought by Lothian only months after Horsburgh stopped operating public bus services. While many companies operate routes into the Lothians, I believe there are only 4 independent operators based in the area who still run public services; SD Travel, Prentice Westwood, Edinburgh Coach Lines and Prenctice of Haddington. (I'm not counting Waverley Travel, the RBS shuttle isn't a public service).
It does seem like the trend is going to contiue, and currently only Prentice of Haddington and SD Travel have significant networks of bus routes.

Can't be sure on the exact number, but even 10 years ago there were quite a few more independants in the area.
It's nearly that bad, but you have missed out HcL, which has a number of registered services, some on permits, and Prentice Westwood. Strictly speaking, Festival Travel are also based (HQ) in Lothian, but their registered services all operate from the Fife depot.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

roadierway77

Member
Joined
23 Jun 2019
Messages
430
Location
Edinburgh
The number of independant bus operators in the Lothians does seem to be ever decreasing, what with Eve now bought by Lothian only months after Horsburgh stopped operating public bus services. While many companies operate routes into the Lothians, I believe there are only 4 independent operators based in the area who still run public services; SD Travel, Prentice Westwood, Edinburgh Coach Lines and Prenctice of Haddington. (I'm not counting Waverley Travel, the RBS shuttle isn't a public service).
It does seem like the trend is going to contiue, and currently only Prentice of Haddington and SD Travel have significant networks of bus routes.

Can't be sure on the exact number, but even 10 years ago there were quite a few more independants in the area.
There's also the community bus operators HcL and Lothian Community Transport.

Lothian dominates the urban areas of the Lothians where it is easiest to operate profitable bus services. The rest of the region is rural and I don't believe it's a coincidence that three of the four remaining independents primarily operate council tenders, and even Prentice of Haddington has a large proportion of subsidised services. Lothian is such a large operator in the region that it's essentially impossible for the smaller companies to compete and there are very few potential revenue streams that Lothian hasn't already taken advantage of. This along with declining bus patronage are likely the major factors contributing to the decline of independent operators in the Lothians. It is a shame to see smaller companies disappear but at the same time, their absorption into or replacement by Lothian Buses does bring about benefits for the passenger, such as improved real-time information and reliability, along with better value for money in terms of tickets.
 

Porty

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2020
Messages
273
Location
Edinburgh
On a unrelated note it's been almost a month since the 111 changes, anyone notice if the changes have been beneficial for folk going to Fort Kinnaird and the Royal?
I don't think anyone else has commented but I see there was a service change on 8th Jan with the 111 going via Fort Kinnaird in the middle* of the day. Presumably passenger numbers were healthy enough to bring in a change of route.

*Departs Musselburgh High St between 0953 and 1613, and departs Royal between 1010 and 1710.

Earlier and later 111A services, and 3 or 4 services in the middle of the day (M-F only), operate directly via Stoneybank and Monktonhall and missing out Fort Kinnaird.

I don't know what the service level and numbering was before last summer? Is the 111A daytime service effectively a renumbered and truncated service from before? The 3 or 4 daytime ones don't go further east than Musselburgh High Street.
 
Joined
27 Apr 2021
Messages
54
Location
Edinburgh
Hello, got a sort of random question. I've recently found myself rediscovering a memory I didn't know I had of blue and silver MCW Metrobus's running to and from Dalkeith campus as school buses and just wondered if anyone knew what company these were running with?
 

Bedford OB

Member
Joined
31 Dec 2022
Messages
151
Location
Ilford
Hello, got a sort of random question. I've recently found myself rediscovering a memory I didn't know I had of blue and silver MCW Metrobus's running to and from Dalkeith campus as school buses and just wondered if anyone knew what company these were running with?
Allans of Gorebridge had two ex London Metrobuses, OJD817Y and 871Y, formerly M817 and M871. Acquired in early 2001, the rist kept for two years, the second for 16 months.
 
Joined
27 Apr 2021
Messages
54
Location
Edinburgh
Allans of Gorebridge had two ex London Metrobuses, OJD817Y and 871Y, formerly M817 and M871. Acquired in early 2001, the rist kept for two years, the second for 16 months.
Can't have been one of these. I believe the ones I remember were running around in the old Travel West Midlands livery, certainly a livery that looked very similar to it if not. Cheers for the response anyway
 

Porty

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2020
Messages
273
Location
Edinburgh
The number of independant bus operators in the Lothians does seem to be ever decreasing, what with Eve now bought by Lothian only months after Horsburgh stopped operating public bus services. While many companies operate routes into the Lothians, I believe there are only 4 independent operators based in the area who still run public services; SD Travel, Prentice Westwood, Edinburgh Coach Lines and Prenctice of Haddington. (I'm not counting Waverley Travel, the RBS shuttle isn't a public service).
It does seem like the trend is going to contiue, and currently only Prentice of Haddington and SD Travel have significant networks of bus routes.

Can't be sure on the exact number, but even 10 years ago there were quite a few more independants in the area.
A new addition, of sorts. See the Ember page for the new twice daily service from Wallyford Park and Ride to Kinross and Dundee in a couple of weeks time.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
3,007
Location
Edinburgh
A new addition, of sorts. See the Ember page for the new twice daily service from Wallyford Park and Ride to Kinross and Dundee in a couple of weeks time.
That might be a new candidate for the most pointless route I have ever seen. Who on earth needs to make such a journey? I could understand an E1X between Dundee and Edinburgh, but Wallyford? Wow that’s crazy.
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,794
Location
Edinburgh
That might be a new candidate for the most pointless route I have ever seen. Who on earth needs to make such a journey? I could understand an E1X between Dundee and Edinburgh, but Wallyford? Wow that’s crazy.
It’s a good route for people from East Lothian heading to Dundee and Kinross. There is a park and ride for people to drop their car off.
 

RomeoCharlie71

Established Member
Joined
18 Sep 2017
Messages
1,852
Location
Scotland
That might be a new candidate for the most pointless route I have ever seen. Who on earth needs to make such a journey? I could understand an E1X between Dundee and Edinburgh, but Wallyford? Wow that’s crazy.
Dead mileage killer to utilise the new charger at Wallyford park & ride I believe
 

GusB

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
8,112
Location
Elginshire
We already have a thread for discussing Ember:
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,794
Location
Edinburgh
Does anyone know what happened to E & M Horsburgh’s service buses since they withdrew them late last year? I’d be interested to know if RIG 6491 & RIG 6492 are still around or not. I can’t find anything online.
 

318266

Member
Joined
30 Sep 2017
Messages
874
Location
S&W of Alexander Dennis, N&E of Wrightbus
RIG6491 & RIG6492 are still sat in the yard, to my knowledge.

The only bus I know to have been sold was SN06BSO (Dennis Dart MPD/Plaxton Pointer 2), which was to a certain Avondale Coaches of Clydebank. Lasted approximately 3 months before being withdrawn by Avondale.
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,794
Location
Edinburgh
RIG6491 & RIG6492 are still sat in the yard, to my knowledge.

The only bus I know to have been sold was SN06BSO (Dennis Dart MPD/Plaxton Pointer 2), which was to a certain Avondale Coaches of Clydebank. Lasted approximately 3 months before being withdrawn by Avondale.
Thanks :)
 
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
1,158
Location
Edinburgh
Does anyone know what buses are inside the Waverley Travel depot? From what I have heard there is about a dozen Enviro200 buses there. Any clarity would be appreciated.
 

DunsBus

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2013
Messages
1,808
Location
Duns
I think the next step would be Lothian acquiring Prentice of Haddington, it would complete the takeover of East Lothian except for the 253 service.
Only if Prentice were willing to sell.
 

JKP

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2023
Messages
722
Location
SE Scotland
I think the next step would be Lothian acquiring Prentice of Haddington, it would complete the takeover of East Lothian except for the 253 service.
Not necessarily a good thing as it removes yet another bus operator able to tender for local bus and schools work leading to additional costs for the local authority.

In my opinion the 253 should be cut back to Dunbar and offer an improved service south to Berwick with a though ticketing arrangement with Lothian for passengers wishing to travel to Haddington and Edinburgh.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
3,007
Location
Edinburgh
Not necessarily a good thing as it removes yet another bus operator able to tender for local bus and schools work leading to additional costs for the local authority.

In my opinion the 253 should be cut back to Dunbar and offer an improved service south to Berwick with a though ticketing arrangement with Lothian for passengers wishing to travel to Haddington and Edinburgh.
I also think if Lothian were to make another purchase, the CMA (Competition and Markets Authority) would be on to them. It would leave East Lothian as good as competitionless.

I think the next step would be Lothian acquiring Prentice of Haddington, it would complete the takeover of East Lothian except for the 253 service.
Prentice Coaches are one of the best operators around and given their close family ties, I can’t see them giving the business up for a long time, if ever.

Keep the decent rapport the two have and it will all work rather nicely. It’s a stark contrast to areas where aggressive competition exists. East Lothian is very well served across the board in my opinion.
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,794
Location
Edinburgh
It would be good if West Coast Motors were to sell Borders Buses to Lothian and they rebranded as Lowland.
 

DunsBus

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2013
Messages
1,808
Location
Duns
Now the CMA would definitely block that one!
A sale of Borders Buses to Lothian is never going to happen. Not just because the CMA would kibosh it, either; much of the Borders bus network is supported with only four services - X62, X95, 235 and 253 - run commercially.
The Borders has never been good bus territory which is why First gave up on it. Going back, I remember Lowland turning in a loss in its first year in the private sector. That says it all.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
3,007
Location
Edinburgh
A sale of Borders Buses to Lothian is never going to happen. Not just because the CMA would kibosh it, either; much of the Borders bus network is supported with only four services - X62, X95, 235 and 253 - run commercially.
The Borders has never been good bus territory which is why First gave up on it. Going back, I remember Lowland turning in a loss in its first year in the private sector. That says it all.
Oh absolutely. Borders Buses themselves have little competition as well, although in this case this is simply due to the other companies walking away. It’s terribly unprofitable and I’d be frightened to know some of the subsidies needed. They’re bound to be getting millions every year to run the network.
 

InOban

On Moderation
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,537
Borders Buses also operates in Northumberland.. Indeed one problem with the 253 is that it is operated out of their Berwick depot.
 

CSB0241

Member
Joined
22 Apr 2023
Messages
335
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland
Prentice Coaches are one of the best operators around and given their close family ties, I can’t see them giving the business up for a long time, if ever. Keep the decent rapport the two have and it will all work rather nicely. It’s a stark contrast to areas where aggressive competition exists. East Lothian is very well served across the board in my opinion.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way. I might be wrong on this (& by all means, feel free to correct me on this), but Prentice & Lothian seem to have a relatively good relationship with one another as far as competition goes. You had the partnership between them with the 69 for 18 months in 2018/19/20, & both companies have made changes to their routes, diverting passengers onto their services. If anything, I’d actually like to see it be a bit more balanced (maybe more services for Prentice?).
 

Top