Independent Operators in the Lothians

LothianBusesPh · 9 Oct 2023

TheEastCoaster said:
On a unrelated note it's been almost a month since the 111 changes, anyone notice if the changes have been beneficial for folk going to Fort Kinnaird and the Royal?

Yes I've noticed a lot of people get on from the Wisp to Fort Kinnaird too.

RailUK Forums

TheEastCoaster · 9 Oct 2023

LothianBusesPh said:
Yes I've noticed a lot of people get on from the Wisp to Fort Kinnaird too.

Well at least it's beneficial just now! Makes me wonder if they will consider keeping the 151 on when the 111 returns to its original route.

FlybeDash8Q400 · 9 Oct 2023

TheEastCoaster said:
Well at least it's beneficial just now! Makes me wonder if they will consider keeping the 151 on when the 111 returns to its original route.

Personally I’m hoping not as Stoneybank has been cut off from Tesco again, but it does seem rather popular. Tricky one for Prentice and the councils involved to solve.

Blindtraveler · 9 Oct 2023

LothianBusesPh said:
This is a Mellor Strata, their 4th in the fleet.

Cheers.

bobdoe · 11 Oct 2023

Did there use to be a Horsburgh bus from Leith to St John's?

LiviCrazy · 11 Oct 2023

bobdoe said:
Did there use to be a Horsburgh bus from Leith to St John's?

Not that I’m aware of, there was a Nordi Travel and latterly First service (630 if I remember rightly).

bobdoe · 11 Oct 2023

LiviCrazy said:
Not that I’m aware of, there was a Nordi Travel and latterly First service (630 if I remember rightly).

Yes, you're right! Do you know the route it took?

Some photos:

Nordi Travel

Nordi travel are a small company running services between Ocean Terminal and Livingston (630 and 631) and between Dunfermline and Livingston (651) As of October 5th 2011 Nordi travel ceased trading and its services have now transferred to First Scotland East.

www.flickr.com

LiviCrazy · 11 Oct 2023

bobdoe said:
Yes, you're right! Do you know the route it took?

Some photos:

Nordi Travel

Nordi travel are a small company running services between Ocean Terminal and Livingston (630 and 631) and between Dunfermline and Livingston (651) As of October 5th 2011 Nordi travel ceased trading and its services have now transferred to First Scotland East.

www.flickr.com

As far as I remember it was Livingston, St John’s, Uphall, Broxburn, Winchburgh, Kirkliston, Crewe Toll, Ocean Terminal.

I only travelled on it a couple of times so could be misremembering, from what I can find it actually ran as two routes latterly, 630 and 631, not sure what the difference was. When First took it over they just kept the 631.

overthewater · 11 Oct 2023

If I remember The 630 omint Winchburgh, and 631 went via Winchburgh, at peak time version.

TheEastCoaster · 11 Oct 2023

LiviCrazy said:
As far as I remember it was Livingston, St John’s, Uphall, Broxburn, Winchburgh, Kirkliston, Crewe Toll, Ocean Terminal.

I only travelled on it a couple of times so could be misremembering, from what I can find it actually ran as two routes latterly, 630 and 631, not sure what the difference was. When First took it over they just kept the 631.

Interesting! I wonder if that type of route would have demand today? :lol:

LiviCrazy · 11 Oct 2023

TheEastCoaster said:
Interesting! I wonder if that type of route would have demand today?

Have thought for a long time, Lothian Country could probably make it work with Ridacards being valid in the city area, could almost be an extension of the 72 on a commercial basis.

LothianBusesPh · 11 Oct 2023

LiviCrazy said:
could almost be an extension of the 72 on a commercial basis.

It is being extended to Fauldhouse in December.

Dfatcontroller · 12 Oct 2023

LothianBusesPh said:
They've done it again! Prentice have put a vehicle in service that hasn't been registered! Will keep checking though.

View attachment 144496

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2023 ==

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/dpce-232-ln73-hnn This is the tracker on Bustimes.org with the number plates and things but they could have a cherished plate on it or maybe it is a website delay.

You could try the correct registration plate which is LV73HNN?

ian1944 · 12 Oct 2023

I had a Horsburgh-last-week X40 trip between the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh (RIE) and Livingston yesterday. The journey from Edinburgh was on a decker which left on time but couldn't hold speed on the bypass so we got to the centre about 10 down. The return was on a single which left the centre a few minutes down but reached RIE right on time. Whatever Horsburgh's reputation, neither vehicle banged and clattered any more than ECB's 124 and X5 offerings with much newer buses. The best thing about the route was the 40 minutes timetable duration and the avoidance of any Edinburgh suburb past Gilmerton and two Calders.

Whether or not the succeeding LCB operation is more reliable or more popular, the increased 60 minutes duration through serving Clovenstone and the Calders means that I won't be using it, going via the city centre if tempted back to Livingston.

stevenedin · 13 Oct 2023

ian1944 said:
I had a Horsburgh-last-week X40 trip between the Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh (RIE) and Livingston yesterday. The journey from Edinburgh was on a decker which left on time but couldn't hold speed on the bypass so we got to the centre about 10 down. The return was on a single which left the centre a few minutes down but reached RIE right on time. Whatever Horsburgh's reputation, neither vehicle banged and clattered any more than ECB's 124 and X5 offerings with much newer buses. The best thing about the route was the 40 minutes timetable duration and the avoidance of any Edinburgh suburb past Gilmerton and two Calders.

Whether or not the succeeding LCB operation is more reliable or more popular, the increased 60 minutes duration through serving Clovenstone and the Calders means that I won't be using it, going via the city centre if tempted back to Livingston.

I’ve never seen a double decker on the Horsburgh X40 before. Which bus was used?

Bus9120UK · 13 Oct 2023

stevenedin said:
I’ve never seen a double decker on the Horsburgh X40 before. Which bus was used?

It'll likely have been an ALX400. They have been appearing on the X40 as of late with RIG 6941 constantly having issues.

ian1944 · 13 Oct 2023

stevenedin said:
I’ve never seen a double decker on the Horsburgh X40 before. Which bus was used?

Didn't notice the reg, but I'd say a fairly vertical front. They don't still run Olympians, do they?

VioletEclipse · 13 Oct 2023

ian1944 said:
Didn't notice the reg, but I'd say a fairly vertical front. They don't still run Olympians, do they?

Even Horsburgh wouldn't run an Olympian on a regular public service. It was probably an ALX400, possibly a Plaxton President but that's less likely.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Oct 2023 ==

Does Horsburgh service 6 operate on Saturdays? The timetable seems to contradict itself on this.

Jordan Adam · 13 Oct 2023

VioletEclipse said:
Does Horsburgh service 6 operate on Saturdays? The timetable seems to contradict itself on this.

SD Travel operate the 6 - https://bustimes.org/services/6-whitburn-avonbridge

The timetables on Horsburghs own website are 6-7 years out of date.

VioletEclipse · 13 Oct 2023

Jordan Adam said:
SD Travel operate the 6 - https://bustimes.org/services/6-whitburn-avonbridge

The timetables on Horsburghs own website are 6-7 years out of date.

Thanks! The annoying thing is that, although some timetables on their website are for services they haven't operated for years, the timetables for services they do still operate are usually accurate, so it seems as though they're all up to date when they aren't.

CN04NRJ · 14 Oct 2023

Last day for Horsburgh on the X40, with Dart SN06BSO and some VW minibus contraption operating the route. At least it's running!

LothianBusesPh · 14 Oct 2023

CN04NRJ said:
Last day for Horsburgh on the X40, with Dart SN06BSO and some VW minibus contraption operating the route. At least it's running!

View attachment 144788 View attachment 144787

An Eclipse is running it too.

Swanny200 · 14 Oct 2023

I remember when Horsburgh used to buy old Lothian stock and just change the front panels. Does West Lothian Council still do the taxibus service? I used to work for a couple of the taxi companies that used to run them, notably allthefours. It has been that long since I have been up there I would be surprised if the company still existed.

bobdoe · 14 Oct 2023

Some interesting and nostalgic photos of old Horsburgh routes:

Airport bus!
555 Gyle Centre - Livingston Bus Station via Airport (note the number plate)

E & M Horsburgh - londonbuspics

X555EMH, E&M Horsburgh

londonbuspics.smugmug.com

32 Livingston Bus Station - ?

EM Horsburgh - donaldstirling

MX03CYL is the new order on the 32 at Linlithgow Cross

www.donaldstirling.me.uk

40 and X40 used to be numbered 400 and X400

EMH are Eric and Mark Horsburgh, a Livingston operator who started in Uphall. Stage services, schools and private hire all feature

www.donaldstirling.me.uk

Observer · 14 Oct 2023

Swanny200 said:
I remember when Horsburgh used to buy old Lothian stock and just change the front panels. Does West Lothian Council still do the taxibus service? I used to work for a couple of the taxi companies that used to run them, notably allthefours. It has been that long since I have been up there I would be surprised if the company still existed.

I think you are referring to the rather ugly "single door conversions" that involved putting a sheet of metal over the second door.

https://flickr.com/photos/davidsbusphotos/48134021093/ (not my photo but a great example of this, happened with every ex-Lothian dual door bus they got their hands on)

Much better ways of doing this. Midland Bluebird sealing the second doors of their ex-Grampian Atlanteans shut, looked a lot cleaner.

MIDLAND BLUEBIRD 723 XSA223S

Falkirk bus station 11/10/95

flickr.com

(again not my photo)

mb88 · 15 Oct 2023

CN04NRJ said:
Last day for Horsburgh on the X40, with Dart SN06BSO and some VW minibus contraption operating the route. At least it's running!

View attachment 144788 View attachment 144787

I spotted the VW thing as well. It quite frequently appears on the service 6. Also, SD Travel had a Ford Transit out on the 16.

CSB0241 · 18 Nov 2023

bobdoe said:
Airport bus!
555 Gyle Centre - Livingston Bus Station via Airport (note the number plate)

E & M Horsburgh - londonbuspics

X555EMH, E&M Horsburgh

londonbuspics.smugmug.com

Could there be demand for a route like this to return? Sure, there’s already the Tram & 400 between The Gyle & The Airport, as well as the 902 between The Airport & Livingston, but if a service, maybe every hour or two, went from Edinburgh Park Bus Layover to Deans South via The Gyle, Ingliston P&R*, Edinburgh Airport, Ratho Station, Ratho, Wilkieston, A71, Oakbank, Dedridge West (omitting Dedridge East & operating via A71 & Crofthead Interchange), Livingston Bus Station, Livingston Village (peak journeys to St. John’s Hospital), & Shin Etsu, then I could see demand for it, as it’s mean several things;
• Bus reinstated in Livingston Village
• More direct bus to Livingston from Deans or Wilkieston
• Section of McGills SE 20 between Ratho & Gyle covered, meaning that it could be fused with McGills SE 63 to make a service between Queensferry & Chesser (Balerno - Cramond service would replace Gyle - Balerno section of 63)
• New bus service linking West Lothian to Edinburgh Airport

*Only drops off passengers at Ingliston P&R before serving the airport, & picks them up after the airport, so nobody is waiting on the bus for 15 minutes just to return to Ingliston

I do realise that a local operator like SD travel taking a concept similar is much less likely compared to a company like Lothian Country, but it could get some money for these smaller companies

stevenedin · 19 Nov 2023

CSB0241 said:
Could there be demand for a route like this to return? Sure, there’s already the Tram & 400 between The Gyle & The Airport, as well as the 902 between The Airport & Livingston, but if a service, maybe every hour or two, went from Edinburgh Park Bus Layover to Deans South via The Gyle, Ingliston P&R*, Edinburgh Airport, Ratho Station, Ratho, Wilkieston, A71, Oakbank, Dedridge West (omitting Dedridge East & operating via A71 & Crofthead Interchange), Livingston Bus Station, Livingston Village (peak journeys to St. John’s Hospital), & Shin Etsu, then I could see demand for it, as it’s mean several things;
• Bus reinstated in Livingston Village
• More direct bus to Livingston from Deans or Wilkieston
• Section of McGills SE 20 between Ratho & Gyle covered, meaning that it could be fused with McGills SE 63 to make a service between Queensferry & Chesser (Balerno - Cramond service would replace Gyle - Balerno section of 63)
• New bus service linking West Lothian to Edinburgh Airport

*Only drops off passengers at Ingliston P&R before serving the airport, & picks them up after the airport, so nobody is waiting on the bus for 15 minutes just to return to Ingliston

I do realise that a local operator like SD travel taking a concept similar is much less likely compared to a company like Lothian Country, but it could get some money for these smaller companies

This sounds like a good idea but it would need to be commercial or a mixture of commercial and subsidised.

CSB0241 · 19 Nov 2023

stevenedin said:
This sounds like a good idea but it would need to be commercial or a mixture of commercial and subsidised.

Could probably be commercially run in Edinburgh with the West Lothian section being subsidised by West Lothian Council

Also, is it true that the prentice of Haddington 151 might be staying? Someone in a discord server of mine says that there are rumours flying around about it, but I’m not so sure

VioletEclipse · 13 Feb 2024

The number of independant bus operators in the Lothians does seem to be ever decreasing, what with Eve now bought by Lothian only months after Horsburgh stopped operating public bus services. While many companies operate routes into the Lothians, I believe there are only 4 independent operators based in the area who still run public services; SD Travel, Prentice Westwood, Edinburgh Coach Lines and Prenctice of Haddington. (I'm not counting Waverley Travel, the RBS shuttle isn't a public service).
It does seem like the trend is going to contiue, and currently only Prentice of Haddington and SD Travel have significant networks of bus routes.

Can't be sure on the exact number, but even 10 years ago there were quite a few more independants in the area.

Independent Operators in the Lothians

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