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Is the Heathrow Express a viable, worthwhile service?

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mangyiscute

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Imo the ideal is once Didcot to Oxford is electrified, the HeX trains are used to run 2tph London to Oxford 8 car 387s (making it 3tph alongside the cotswold line service) since Oxford desperately needs this extra capacity, with a few spare IETs going to increase capacity elsewhere.
 
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stevieinselby

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Could you elaborate on what these are (presumably in addition to 'long-distance' services, above)?
The obvious example is the Greenford branch, which used to have through services to Paddington but now terminates at West Ealing – and has seen passenger numbers crash as a result. If HEx was removed then those trains may be able to run through to Paddington again. Alternatively (or both) increase the frequency of Crossrail trains to Heathrow to replace the lost HEx services, making a more consistent service and with better connectivity.
 

Kite159

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The obvious example is the Greenford branch, which used to have through services to Paddington but now terminates at West Ealing – and has seen passenger numbers crash as a result. If HEx was removed then those trains may be able to run through to Paddington again. Alternatively (or both) increase the frequency of Crossrail trains to Heathrow to replace the lost HEx services, making a more consistent service and with better connectivity.
Highly unlikely a half hourly 2 coach DMU will be allowed out onto the relief lines alongside the Elizabeth line services. Any paths freed up by removing Heathrow Express will be on the mains.

Especially as GWR will need to find another unit to provide a half hourly service
 

Horizon22

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The obvious example is the Greenford branch, which used to have through services to Paddington but now terminates at West Ealing – and has seen passenger numbers crash as a result. If HEx was removed then those trains may be able to run through to Paddington again. Alternatively (or both) increase the frequency of Crossrail trains to Heathrow to replace the lost HEx services, making a more consistent service and with better connectivity.

No it's not obvious - the Greenford branch would run on the Relief lines and removing of HeX would open up path on the Main Lines.

The only branch this might benefit is the Windsor Branch, but using a Turbo on the Mains wouldn't be a much better use of capacity. I agree with @mangyiscute that if Oxford was electrified an EMU service there would definitely be beneficial, which should free up IETs for other work.
 

BogiePicker

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Would the GWML be more efficiently used if the HEX 387s (and perhaps even the GWR 387s) ran to 125mph max? Do the 387s theoretically hold up the IETs? With modern traction motors, stock should have no problem quickly romping up to speed. 745s hit the ton in around a minute.
 

JonathanH

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Would the GWML be more efficiently used if the HEX 387s (and perhaps even the GWR 387s) ran to 125mph max?
They aren't built to run at 125mph as they don't have suitable crumple zones, pointy noses etc.

Do the 387s theoretically hold up the IETs?
A 387 is two minutes slower to Reading on a non-stop service - 25 minutes versus 23 minutes, although IETs were once timed at 22 minutes rather than 23 minutes. As far as Airport Junction it doesn't really make a difference.
 

mangyiscute

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I'd be very surprised if that would create any new paths, since there is such minimal difference, plus currently the non stop 387s (mainly just Newbury services) usually run just before or after the HeX and Slough to London services so the lower speed makes even less difference.
 

zwk500

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Would the GWML be more efficiently used if the HEX 387s (and perhaps even the GWR 387s) ran to 125mph max? Do the 387s theoretically hold up the IETs? With modern traction motors, stock should have no problem quickly romping up to speed. 745s hit the ton in around a minute.
I'd be very surprised if that would create any new paths, since there is such minimal difference, plus currently the non stop 387s (mainly just Newbury services) usually run just before or after the HeX and Slough to London services so the lower speed makes even less difference.
In addition, 125 doesn't start until Ealing Broadway (src: OpenRailwayMap), so you only have 5.5 miles of the additional 25mph (Ealing Broadway is 5m56ch, Airport Junction (DM) 11m15ch, src: http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/elrs/_mileages/m/mln1.shtm)
5.5 miles @ 100mph = 3 mins 18 secs
5.5 miles @ 125mph = 2 mins 39 secs.
So HEx running at 125mph saves 39 seconds total. Given how the SRTs are broken up on that section and once you add the 5% allowance, I'd be surprised if any of the SRTs changed at all.
 

SynthD

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Presumably HEx won't have dedicated platforms at OOC so there will be no way of telling what train you used.
Heathrow to relief platforms at OOC will always (except Sundays) be Elizabeth line, and to main platforms will always be HEx. I hope HEx won’t be reimbursed for Sunday passengers paying lower fares.
 

Stephen42

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In addition, 125 doesn't start until Ealing Broadway (src: OpenRailwayMap), so you only have 5.5 miles of the additional 25mph (Ealing Broadway is 5m56ch, Airport Junction (DM) 11m15ch, src: http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/elrs/_mileages/m/mln1.shtm)
5.5 miles @ 100mph = 3 mins 18 secs
5.5 miles @ 125mph = 2 mins 39 secs.
So HEx running at 125mph saves 39 seconds total. Given how the SRTs are broken up on that section and once you add the 5% allowance, I'd be surprised if any of the SRTs changed at all.
The GWR and Heathrow Expresses class 387s are timed at 110mph rather than 100mph so the difference is even smaller.
 

mangyiscute

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Heathrow to relief platforms at OOC will always (except Sundays) be Elizabeth line, and to main platforms will always be HEx. I hope HEx won’t be reimbursed for Sunday passengers paying lower fares.
Although will the relief and main platforms be behind separate gate lines, as that would make many interchanges unnecesarily cumbersome - especially considering these platforms will be adjacent, I would expect a way of getting between them without going through a gateline.

Looking at the current timetables, converting the HeX or GWR 387s to 125mph running would not create any extra paths, since the 387s are all timed to run consecutively meaning departures of them and 80xs can still be within 2-3 mins of each other.
 

zwk500

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The GWR and Heathrow Expresses class 387s are timed at 110mph rather than 100mph so the difference is even smaller.
5.5 miles @ 100mph = 3 mins 18 secs
5.5 miles @ 110mph = 3 mins 00 secs
5.5 miles @ 125mph = 2 mins 39 secs

For completeness :D
 

The Planner

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In addition, 125 doesn't start until Ealing Broadway (src: OpenRailwayMap), so you only have 5.5 miles of the additional 25mph (Ealing Broadway is 5m56ch, Airport Junction (DM) 11m15ch, src: http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/elrs/_mileages/m/mln1.shtm)
5.5 miles @ 100mph = 3 mins 18 secs
5.5 miles @ 125mph = 2 mins 39 secs.
So HEx running at 125mph saves 39 seconds total. Given how the SRTs are broken up on that section and once you add the 5% allowance, I'd be surprised if any of the SRTs changed at all.
5% allowance?
 

The Planner

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May not be 5%, but the allowance above raw runtime that's included in SRT calculations.
Shouldn't be any (unless its the wacky Southern way of incorporating box time), any rounding should cater for being cautious.
 

MarkyT

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5.5 miles @ 100mph = 3 mins 18 secs
5.5 miles @ 110mph = 3 mins 00 secs
5.5 miles @ 125mph = 2 mins 39 secs

For completeness :D
On RTT, looking at a handful of mid-morning Down Main running times planned on Tuesday 23/04 from a standing start at Paddington, they all pass Heathrow Airport Junction between 8.5 and 9.5 minutes after departure, with the lower figure representing the best 80x times. The difference is around the margin between planning and technical signalling headways, so the lower top speed doesn't seem to practically affect pathing capacity much if at all over this fairly short stretch as long as the Electrostar turns off there or shortly afterward at Dolphin Junction onto the Reliefs. Even by Reading, the difference in timing for a non-stop run on the DM throughout is only two minutes, 23(80x) vs 25(387) minutes. I expect the Electrostars are a little more sprightly in acceleration in the lower speed ranges, being a lighter train geared more for stopping service, but the Hitachis will keep on accelerating for longer clearly. In practice I expect a Hitachi driver might ease off the throttle and coast a little if they see a double yellow a few signals ahead while still having plenty of time to react if they have to brake for a stop, but under normal conditions that restrictive aspect will quickly step up to green once the HEX has cleared the junction and ARS has reacted promptly to move the points and set the straight route. Now the driver will see only a series of greens ahead and can throttle up accordingly as necessary. Any time lost would be a few seconds at most.
 

MPW

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HEX contract extended. I was surprised but probably shouldn't have been.

UK: Heathrow Express announced on June 24 that it had secured a track access agreement covering its non-stop services between London Paddington and the airport terminals until June 2028.

Despite the competition posed by Transport for London’s Elizabeth Line trains, the operator said its services were carrying 16 000 customers per day, which it claimed made it the largest open access business by volume in the UK...

That's all you can see before pay wall.

 
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Snow1964

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HEX contract extended. I was surprised but probably shouldn't have been.


I tend to agree from an inability to find paths that can provide extra capacity where trains are crowded.

But then the whole Open Access getting timetable slots on busy lines is probably something for different thread.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

What is your surprise? That Heathrow Express applied for the extension, or that it was granted?

For me it is timescale, I suspect HEX applied a while ago, and decision was taken based on application date, without a hard rational look at latest ORR passenger usage figures which show continuing fall in HEX usage (down to 4.5m journeys per year or average of 12300 per day), and 12% down on passenger km

 
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michael8

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As a passenger the HeX is a wonderful luxury, a little holiday in itself, it's a feel-good start to the holiday. I really hope it remains viable!
 

Snow1964

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Looked up ORR data figures for latest quarter Jan-Mar 2024
compared it to 5 years ago pre-covid (Jan-Mar 2019) and 10 years ago (Jan-Mar 2014)

Service level not changed much (table 1253 vehicle km)
2014 : 1.9447m
2019 : 2.7676m
2024 : 2.0807m

Passenger km (table 1233)
2014 : 34.55m
2019 : 35.212m
2024 : 25.112m

Dividing Passenger km by vehicle km, gives average number of passengers per vehicle which has halved
2014 : 17.766
2019 : 12.723
2024 : 8.945

If the trains are nowadays carrying on average less than 9 people per carriage, then I totally understand the questions about if this is a good use of scarce line capacity, especially as most operators are around 20-25 passengers on average per vehicle


For those who prefer volume of journeys (passenger numbers) using table 1223 for Jan-Mar
2014 : 1.402m
2019 : 1.432m
2024 : 0.975m

Those last figures show that Heathrow Express has lost about third of its passengers compared to pre pandemic, down to just 325k passengers per month.
 
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JonathanH

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If the trains are nowadays carrying on average less than 9 people per carriage, then I totally understand the questions about if this is a good use of scarce line capacity, especially as most operators are around 20-25 passengers on average per vehicle
Who else has made an application to use the Heathrow Express paths or platforms at Paddington? Did anyone else contend the Heathrow Express application?
 

zwk500

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Service level not changed much (table 1253 vehicle km)
2014 : 1.9447m
2019 : 2.7676m
2024 : 20.807m
Not disputing your overall point, but why does the vehicle-km jump by a factor of ten between 2019 and 2024, is this simply displacement of the decimal point?
 
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MPW

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What is your surprise? That Heathrow Express applied for the extension, or that it was granted?
I guess that it was granted but probably more because of the sentiment of discussions in this thread.

the reason I shouldn't have been surprised is because I wasn't thinking from point of view of the decision makers anf based on current situation. Comment from Snow1964 below sums up why I said "ah of course" to myself after seeing the headline.

For me it is timescale, I suspect HEX applied a while ago, and decision was taken based on application date, without a hard rational look at latest ORR passenger usage figures which show continuing fall in HEX usage (down to 4.5m journeys per year or average of 12300 per day), and 12% down on passenger km
 

SynthD

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Who else has made an application to use the Heathrow Express paths or platforms at Paddington? Did anyone else contend the Heathrow Express application?
I don't think that's how the relationship between franchise owners and open access operators ever worked. Now the DfT are in charge, they don't seek more services on any line.
 

DanNCL

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Not disputing your overall point, but why does the vehicle-km jump by a factor of ten between 2019 and 2024, is this simply displacement of the decimal point?
Could the switch from using single 332s to pairs of 387s have anything to do with it?
 

JonathanH

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I don't think that's how the relationship between franchise owners and open access operators ever worked.
No, but any interested party could put forward comments on why allocation of the paths affects their plans.

Now the DfT are in charge, they don't seek more services on any line.
That isn't true. There have been a number of recent recasts of DfT specified services which have led to different use of paths.
 

Olivine

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I assume those figures are purely Terminal 2/3 to Paddington and not the interchanges between 4/5 and CTA?
 

John R

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A few interesting stats from the latest ORR data (all Q1 stats, ie Apr to Jun):-

Passenger numbers are 16% down on two years ago, with the fall steeper in the most recent year (-12%).

From the last pre-pandemic year (19/20), numbers are down 31%, ie nearly a third.

Now, here's the interesting thing - if you look at Heathrow Airport's passenger figures, they were 2.4% higher in Apr to Jun 24 than in the same period for 19. So airport traffic has more than fully recovered (albeit that it is probably not as high as it would have been without the pandemic), but traffic numbers are still nearly a third lower.

As noted elsewhere, 1,131 passengers equates to an average of around 90 per 8 coach train spread across an 18'ish hour day. And whilst there will be considerable peaks and troughs, so some will be many more than that, it also means that some of those services will be carting even fewer passengers.

(Image shows a graph of Heathrow Express passenger numbers from ORR, as follows:-

2017/18: 1665
2018/19: 1632
2019/20: 1648
2020/21: 18
2021/22: 126
2022/23: 1372
2023/24: 1289
2024/25: 1131

Source of data: https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/passenger-rail-usage/

Screenshot 2024-10-06 183732.png
 
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