Restriction code 2C and Break in Journey

[northwichcat]

Am I right in thinking restriction code 2C, on a northbound journey from London Euston, only applies for leaving London Euston? For example, I could catch a weekday 14:12 London Euston to Stoke, break my journey, and recommence it at any time?

The relevant bit seems to be

Not valid on trains timed to depart:

• London Euston after 04:29 and before 09:26 or after 15:00 and before 18:45 (Restrictions do not apply on Fridays)

Ticket Restriction 2C | National Rail

Ticket restriction details 2C. Each train ticket restriction code states when and/or on what train(s) the ticket is not valid and the days and/or dates that these restrictions apply.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[bakerstreet]

I read it that if the train has departed London Euston at a restricted time, a ticket valid to board at Euston (or Watford Jn or Milton Keynes or the other stations listed) cannot be used on that train throughout, even if you board it north of the stations listed.

You mention weekdays. Note 2C doesn’t apply on Fridays

 

[northwichcat]

I read it that if the train has departed London Euston at a restricted time, a ticket valid to board at Euston (or Watford Jn or Milton Keynes or the other stations listed) cannot be used on that train throughout, even if you board it north of the stations listed.

I suppose that makes sense. Otherwise anyone with an Off Peak ticket on an Avanti train could claim they broke their journey at the previous station.

However, would that not mean it only applies to London services. Therefore, if the break in journey is at Stoke or Crewe there would be no issue joining a XC, Northern, WMT or TfW Rail service to complete the journey?

 

[bakerstreet]

I suppose that makes sense. Otherwise anyone with an Off Peak ticket on an Avanti train could claim they broke their journey at the previous station.

However, would that not mean it only applies to London services. Therefore, if the break in journey is at Stoke or Crewe there would be no issue joining a XC, Northern, WMT or TfW Rail service to complete the journey?

I’d have to reread the restriction to ensure that’s not also captured but your logic is correct.

From memory there are still off peak tickets from north of Rugby / midlands to destinations further north which essentially have almost no restrictions so guards should be used to that.

Re XC, note the restrictions in 2C on trains timed to depart Reading.

 

[Benjwri]

In general the advised rule to follow is that if you would’ve joined a service from a train that isn’t valid in your ticket, had you not broken your journey, it isn’t valid after the break.

It isn’t written anywhere, but you’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone on the group to let you through a gateline, or not to penalty fare you.

 

[northwichcat]

In general the advised rule to follow is that if you would’ve joined a service from a train that isn’t valid in your ticket, had you not broken your journey, it isn’t valid after the break.

It isn’t written anywhere, but you’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone on the group to let you through a gateline, or not to penalty fare you.

I'm not attempting to find a loophole to exploit. I've already purchased an Off Peak Return ticket for a route that already involves changing to a Northern service at Stockport, with restriction code 2C. Something has come up that may mean I need to break my journey between Stoke and Stockport.

I notice restriction code 2V says an overnight break in journey is permitted but in that instance you can't recommence your journey before 09:30 on a weekday. That's nice and clear.

Restriction code ND has the infamous no starting your journey or joining a connecting train between 16:00 and 18:30, which creates conflict when there's a "short notice change to the timetable".

For restriction code 2C it doesn't say you can't break your journey, or if you break it you can't recommence it between certain times. @bakerstreet Thanks for your input.

 

[Watershed]

In general the advised rule to follow is that if you would’ve joined a service from a train that isn’t valid in your ticket, had you not broken your journey, it isn’t valid after the break.

It isn’t written anywhere, but you’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone on the group to let you through a gateline, or not to penalty fare you.

You can't be issued with a Penalty Fare for travelling at a restricted time on an Off-Peak ticket. You simply have to pay the difference in fare.

As for the OP's question, it is somewhat ambiguous. But in practical terms, I would doubt there would be any issue boarding an evening "peak" train north of Watford, as the wording for Milton Keynes for example doesn't include any evening peak restrictions (because, as a regulated fare, it can't).

 

[Bletchleyite]

You also can't be issued with a Penalty Fare for travel on Avanti because it isn't a Penalty Fares TOC. (Though I wouldn't put it past Northern's contract security incompetents from trying)

 

[northwichcat]

You also can't be issued with a Penalty Fare for travel on Avanti because it isn't a Penalty Fares TOC. (Though I wouldn't put it past Northern's contract security incompetents from trying)

I suspect they would be more likely to question the break in journey than the restriction code.

 

[yorkie]

You also can't be issued with a Penalty Fare for travel on Avanti because it isn't a Penalty Fares TOC. (Though I wouldn't put it past Northern's contract security incompetents from trying)

Northern revenue staff can be appalling, as are the company they use to appeal the incorrect actions of their revenue staff:

Northern Rail Penalty Fare Notice

Hi, I’ve received a fine for boarding a train at the wrong station. The reason on my fine is (other) boarded at wrong station on advance ticket (split journey). I’ve not seen anyone receive a ticket for this reason and would like some advice please. So I had a ticket for York - Harrogate...

www.railforums.co.uk

Penalty Services - penalty fares appeal company who acts incorrectly and spreads misinformation

It has been brought to my attention that the following company is providing misinformation regarding Penalty Fares: https://www.penaltyservices.co.uk/ 12 Deben Mill Business Centre Old Maltngs Approach Woodbridge IP12 1BL...

www.railforums.co.uk

I associate the brand "Northern" with poor training, inconsistency, unprofessionalism and poor quality generally, and I don't think they are at all bothered at being perceived that way.

But yes you are right that a PF could not - at least not legitimately - be issued in such circumstances, and also that Northern cannot be trusted to get such things right.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Mar 2024 ==

Am I right in thinking restriction code 2C, on a northbound journey from London Euston, only applies for leaving London Euston? For example, I could catch a weekday 14:12 London Euston to Stoke, break my journey, and recommence it at any time?

The relevant bit seems to be

Ticket Restriction 2C | National Rail

Ticket restriction details 2C. Each train ticket restriction code states when and/or on what train(s) the ticket is not valid and the days and/or dates that these restrictions apply.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

You are restricted based on the times trains departed from London, and the other restrictions listed. So from Stoke you could resume on XC or Northern and not have to worry about any time restrictions. If you are boarding an Avanti service, then you can't use one that departed Euston at a barred time (though in practice this may be accepted, depending on the circumstances).

 

[bakerstreet]

You are restricted based on the times trains departed from London, and the other restrictions listed. So from Stoke you could resume on XC or Northern and not have to worry about any time restrictions. If you are boarding an Avanti service, then you can't use one that departed Euston at a barred time (though in practice this may be accepted, depending on the circumstances).

2C does mention Reading which may remove XC as an option.
Unless thats overridden by

For journeys to/via Birmingham on Cross Country see restriction code 2V.

?

 

[northwichcat]

I just realised I can get the split ticketing site to show a valid itinerary for the journey I'm thinking of, by specifying a number of options including displaying flexible fare and requiring a change of train with an extended connection time.

Strangely it can also find an Advance Single for a journey from Euston to Northwich that includes a 2 hour wait at stations only served by the Stoke to Manchester stopper. I'm not planning to purchase one, but I thought it's an interesting observation.