Manchester Picc - Euston TfW/LNR Off-peak Return

[Adam Evans]

Does anybody know what's happened to the TfW/LNR Only Manchester Piccadilly - London Euston tickets? I can't seem to find it anywhere on any of the various ticketing websites including TfW and LNR themselves.

I previously was able to find it by inputting 'via Atherstone' into the search criteria but that no longer seems to work and instead just keeps directing me to the full price Avanti trains. Have they quietly gotten rid of it?

I hope not because the full priced Avanti tickets are just extortionate and I can rarely plan my journeys around Advance tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still there. I suspect you're ending up with trains in your search other than WMT/TfW and so it isn't coming up.

Putting via Atherstone may not work as all Trent Valley trains run via Atherstone whether they stop or not. You could try using Trainsplit and putting "stop at Atherstone" in the options?

 

[MrJeeves]

You could try using Trainsplit and putting "stop at Atherstone" in the options?

Alternatively, it may be easier to simply set only include West Midlands Trains and TfW?

TrainSplit

TrainSplit is a free service that makes it easy to find the cheapest train tickets for your journey.

beta.trainsplit.com

I only seem to get splitting options with separate TfW and LNR/WMR advances rather than the single through advance for both TOCs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think the OP wants an Advance to be fair.

 

[MrJeeves]

I don't think the OP wants an Advance to be fair.

Well in that case, no issue at all

 

[Adam Evans]

Still there. I suspect you're ending up with trains in your search other than WMT/TfW and so it isn't coming up.

Putting via Atherstone may not work as all Trent Valley trains run via Atherstone whether they stop or not. You could try using Trainsplit and putting "stop at Atherstone" in the options?

Thanks for your help. I managed to find it after a few tries. Glad that it hasn't been pulled.

Concerning though that it's become impossible to find via conventional means (ie the operators own mobile apps).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Concerning though that it's become impossible to find via conventional means (ie the operators own mobile apps).

Most of the apps etc are generally set up for faster journeys - slower but cheaper can be hard to find. That should perhaps be looked at in terms of the accreditation programme.

 

[Bungle965]

Most of the apps etc are generally set up for faster journeys - slower but cheaper can be hard to find. That should perhaps be looked at in terms of the accreditation programme.

As far as I am aware there hasn’t been any sort of accreditation for how a journey planner should work, each ends up with minor differences.

 

[plugwash]

Concerning though that it's become impossible to find via conventional means (ie the operators own mobile apps).

It always was hard to find. The way most rail retail sites are set up just isn't geared to such tickets, they generally let you restrict to a specific operator but very few let you specify a specific combination of operators. And most look for the fastest journeys rather than the cheapest. Sometimes you could trick them by using a via point

 

[Kite159]

Still there. I suspect you're ending up with trains in your search other than WMT/TfW and so it isn't coming up.

Putting via Atherstone may not work as all Trent Valley trains run via Atherstone whether they stop or not. You could try using Trainsplit and putting "stop at Atherstone" in the options?

The issue with putting 'via Atherstone' is due to the connection time at Crewe being something like 65 minutes between the TfW & LNR service so most journey planners will put in using a northern service from Manchester to Crewe to connect with the LNR service.
Same issue as northbound services as from memory the first train to Manchester from Crewe after the LNR arrives is normally a northern stopper (or even an Avanti service when those run).

Best site I find to look up these tickets is the likes of GWR whom still use the mixing desk layout.

 

[317 forever]

I have seen it on the LNWR website under the list of flexible fares.

 

[JW24]

Found on the forum's ticketing system only. Enter Crewe in the 'via' field and in operators exclude northern and avanti.

 

[317 forever]

The first outbound train that the Super off-peak return is valid on from Manchester Piccadilly is the 10.30.

It reaches Crewe at 10.08 and officially connects with the 12.13 to Euston. However, it could plausibly connect with the 11.13 in practice.

I therefore wonder whether we would then be allowed to use the ticket on the 11.13 train? The ticket would have been scanned at Manchester Piccadilly and probably on the TfW train too, thereby demonstrating correct use at the start of the journey.

I am just concerned that it could be rejected if inspected on the LNWR train or at Euston.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The first outbound train that the Super off-peak return is valid on from Manchester Piccadilly is the 10.30.

It reaches Crewe at 10.08 and officially connects with the 12.13 to Euston. However, it could plausibly connect with the 11.13 in practice.

I therefore wonder whether we would then be allowed to use the ticket on the 11.13 train? The ticket would have been scanned at Manchester Piccadilly and probably on the TfW train too, thereby demonstrating correct use at the start of the journey.

Outward Travel & Return Travel​
Restriction Code: JN Restricted Days: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday Mondays-Saturdays​
Not valid on trains timed to depart Manchester Piccadilly after 04:29 or before 10:30 and not between 16:00 to 19:00. Not valid on trains timed to depart London Euston after 04:29 or before 10:30 and not between 16:00 to 19:00.

Looks like there should be no problems, as long as you're on the 10:30 from Piccadilly any West Midlands Trains trains can be used.

 

[BongoStar]

Found on the forum's ticketing system only. Enter Crewe in the 'via' field and in operators exclude northern and avanti.

I echo the above comment. The forums ticketing system does show cheaper options, even if much slower, which other platforms don't. Just last month, I managed to get a Manchester to Reading for under 50 on XC via Didcot which was atleast an hour slower than the 102 via Euston.

 

[317 forever]

Outward Travel & Return Travel​
Restriction Code: JN Restricted Days: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday Mondays-Saturdays​
Not valid on trains timed to depart Manchester Piccadilly after 04:29 or before 10:30 and not between 16:00 to 19:00. Not valid on trains timed to depart London Euston after 04:29 or before 10:30 and not between 16:00 to 19:00.

Looks like there should be no problems, as long as you're on the 10:30 from Piccadilly any West Midlands Trains trains can be used.

Yes, I was hoping we could if that West Midlands train is effectively waiting for us.

I may take a chance on it now, thanks.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes, I was hoping we could if that West Midlands train is effectively waiting for us.

I may take a chance on it now, thanks.

You'll need to be quick on your toes over the overbridge. The 1030 TfW from Manchester Piccadilly usually comes into Crewe alongside platform 5 and whilst it's booked to arrive in at 1108, it's often a few minutes late, noting also that the 1113 West Midlands Trains departure for London Euston is up and over on platform 7. Good luck!

 

[erk]

The first outbound train that the Super off-peak return is valid on from Manchester Piccadilly is the 10.30.

It reaches Crewe at 10.08 and officially connects with the 12.13 to Euston. However, it could plausibly connect with the 11.13 in practice.

I therefore wonder whether we would then be allowed to use the ticket on the 11.13 train? The ticket would have been scanned at Manchester Piccadilly and probably on the TfW train too, thereby demonstrating correct use at the start of the journey.

I am just concerned that it could be rejected if inspected on the LNWR train or at Euston.

I have used that comination, and had it instected on the LNWR train without issue. Not that that proves anything...

The connection usually works if you know where you're going. The TfW train is scheduled to pass across the LNWR train's path.

 

[317 forever]

You'll need to be quick on your toes over the overbridge. The 1030 TfW from Manchester Piccadilly usually comes into Crewe alongside platform 5 and whilst it's booked to arrive in at 1108, it's often a few minutes late, noting also that the 1113 West Midlands Trains departure for London Euston is up and over on platform 7. Good luck!

If I therefore miss the connection my ticketing dilemma would no longer apply. That time I saw it in July it did pull into platform 5. Last July and in May this year my TfW trains pulled into platform 8, but this was the 09.30 from Manchester rather than 08.30.

I have used that comination, and had it instected on the LNWR train without issue. Not that that proves anything...

The connection usually works if you know where you're going. The TfW train is scheduled to pass across the LNWR train's path.

So, if not a problem for you it shouldn't be for me either.

 

[Watershed]

That time I saw it in July it did pull into platform 5. Last July and in May this year my TfW trains pulled into platform 8, but this was the 09.30 from Manchester rather than 08.30

If a service from Manchester is pulling into platform 8 - one of the south-facing bay platforms - I suspect you won't be particularly concerned about the connection but rather about how much you've had to drink

 

[185]

If a service from Manchester is pulling into platform 8 - one of the south-facing bay platforms - I suspect you won't be particularly concerned about the connection but rather about how much you've had to drink

Not entirely the case.... The station becomes such a mess, Cardiff Manchesters have occasionally come into platform 7/8, quickly back out onto the Salop, change ends round the corner, then off to Manchester straight through Crewe's middle road (Down Fast). As Cardiff Manchesters can only use 5 & 6 normally, if those are blocked the service is stuck.

 

[317 forever]

I caught the 08.30 from Manchester in the end. It pulled into platform 6, making a simple connection with the 09.13 to Euston. Due to earlier delays, the train was terminated at Rugby. Due to the next Avanti train being just 5 coaches, rendering the ticket relaxation pointless, I had a cup of coffee and waited for the next fast LNWR to Euston, which was an hour later so the 10.13 from Crewe. I decided against claiming Delay Repay as I caught the advertised connection on time (well, 8 minutes late actually).

On the way back, I hoped to catch the 15.46 from Euston. As I found out in good time that it was cancelled, I made use of the hour and caught the 16.46 train instead. Again, I did not claim Delay Repay. I was worried that, if the 15.46 was reinstated at the last minute, my claim would be totally invalid.

 

[MrJeeves]

On the way back, I hoped to catch the 15.46 from Euston. As I found out in good time that it was cancelled, I made use of the hour and caught the 16.46 train instead. Again, I did not claim Delay Repay. I was worried that, if the 15.46 was reinstated at the last minute, my claim would be totally invalid.

If it's not been reinstated, go and submit that claim!

 

[richardderby]

noticed, Northern have added a new layer of tickets on this route Manchester/ Euston

OPR​

Route WMT & NTH ONLY​

Validity Outward: SEE RESTRICTNS (no break of journey) Return: SEE RESTRICTNS Restrictions JB SUPER OFF PEAK​

Adult £43.00​

Child​

they seem to show on LNER planners rather than the TFW connections, perhaps better timings at Crewe (just over 3 hours to Euston, with a 15 min connection at Crewe...)

 

[Kite159]

noticed, Northern have added a new layer of tickets on this route Manchester/ Euston

OPR​

Route WMT & NTH ONLY​

Validity Outward: SEE RESTRICTNS (no break of journey) Return: SEE RESTRICTNS Restrictions JB SUPER OFF PEAK​

Adult £43.00​

Child​

they seem to show on LNER planners rather than the TFW connections, perhaps better timings at Crewe (just over 3 hours to Euston, with a 15 min connection at Crewe...)

I wonder if the LNR+TfW fare will get increased as a result of the new fare including Northern with TfW wanting a bit more money.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

noticed, Northern have added a new layer of tickets on this route Manchester/ Euston

OPR​

Route WMT & NTH ONLY​

Validity Outward: SEE RESTRICTNS (no break of journey) Return: SEE RESTRICTNS Restrictions JB SUPER OFF PEAK​

Adult £43.00​

Child​

they seem to show on LNER planners rather than the TFW connections, perhaps better timings at Crewe (just over 3 hours to Euston, with a 15 min connection at Crewe...)

Suppose it also opens up opportunities via Kidsgrove/Stoke, although a bit slow!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's a sensible addition.
I always thought the "WMT+TfW" should really mean "not Avanti/XC".
On the same lines, Chester-London has TfW+ CH (on which there are WMT options north of Birmingham), but not TfW+WMT on to Euston.
It will also be the way to go if GBR sectorises its fares (ie Intercity/NSE/Regional).

 

[Watershed]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a prelude to the TfW fares being removed, sadly.

 

[alex17595]

Makes sense really, especially with the TFW to Manchester being way too short. The (official) connection Southbound is better, and theres about 10 mins time penalty heading north on Northern.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a prelude to the TfW fares being removed, sadly.

Likely just the flexible fares, if they do go.

TfW trains are very busy on this route, and demand is growing as service quality and reliability also improves. Especially the MK4 services, they're becoming premium.

You don't really want people packing out your capacity constrained train between Manchester and Crewe, when it means some of your most valuable, "core", customers wanting to travel to Hereford, South Wales etc can't get a seat - especially when they're getting buttons from WMT in the ORCATS split.

At least with the WMT/TFW through Advance fares, you can manage and shift availability on to the TfW services which genuinely are quieter, unless you put service specific restrictions on the flexible fares, which isn't practical on a route like this.