Finsbury Park gates & new 'waiting area'

[swt_passenger]

I believe that somewhere along the line the canopies will be extended, something to do with the new accessible footbridge that will be built to link the new platform.. no doubt someone else will have more details.

There is some limited info from NR linked in the recent thread about 'Finsbury Park'

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=43501

 

[jon0844]

They've now put posters up to announce new waiting areas, new roofing, lengthened platforms (including reinstatements of old platforms) and a footbridge with lifts. There are FCC ones with the detail, and Network Rail ones with a vague 'we're making your station better' like text that is pretty useless.

Oh and this on their website: http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.u...major-raft-improvements-begins-finsbury-park/

 

[swt_passenger]

Oh and this on their website: http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.u...major-raft-improvements-begins-finsbury-park/

'Money for old rope' in the FCC press office then - that's word for word the same text as the NR media release, they've just put the quote from their man in before the NR spokesman...

 

[jon0844]

Maybe they'll tweet it one day (like about six months after it is finished).

This reminds me of another rant I'd like to make about Finsbury Park...

The platform screens are still regularly showing trains in the wrong order, being corrected only as the train approaches. Thus, a xx58 train is shown as arriving after the xx03. It causes loads of confusion, and grief for platform staff who have to tell people not to worry (the summary departure screen is always right though).

What's odd is that while it was showing a xx58 as following the xx03, it then announced an apology for the xx58 train being delayed by 6 minutes (switching to say Estimated xx04), when I could see from TRUST that it left on time. And it did arrive on time! No delay, and not after the 03.

And, more recently, there had been some delays from Moorgate and a 6-car train to 'Letchworth G City' arrived on platform 5 instead of 6. At this time, there is a Letchworth slow train, via Hertford, due for platform 6 and a Letchworth semi-fast, via WGC, for platform 5.

Now, what happened was the announcement system told people to stand clear as the train approaching wasn't due to stop, but it was slowing down (even though it was a green signal ahead). As it gets on to the platform, it is announced as the Letchworth train via Hertford! Most rushed over, many didn't (they may think that's the Letchworth train they don't want, and I'm certain most people for the WGC one got on without realising.

I still have no faith in the new system for when it handles multiple platforms or trains that run close together.

 

[jon0844]

The gates go live today. Serco were busy trying to fix a few issues with the emergency side-gates.

By taking some photos of the new 'no waiting areas' I got into trouble with the station manager (see http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=654703&postcount=559) and in this post you'll also find the offending photos.

 

[Skimble19]

Cheers for the pics Jon, keep at it! It's sad certain staff feel it necessary to be like that still..

As for that waiting room / shelter from the first picture in your post - how longs that been there?

 

[allticketspls]

You would be very popular at Potters Bar, Hatfield, Welwyn GC and Hertford then

Especially Potters Bar, the place where a 1-6 travelcard is valid on a bus, but not on a train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
IIRC

As I was originally employed by FCC to work at FPK on the barriers in 2008!!!

There was a plan to install 2 portacabins at the end of the platforms for staff to use as messrooms/offices. This was if I recall a Union requirement as the first drafting of the plans called for the drivers mess room to be taken over by the barrier staff.

 

[causton]

Maybe they'll tweet it one day (like about six months after it is finished).

This reminds me of another rant I'd like to make about Finsbury Park...

The platform screens are still regularly showing trains in the wrong order, being corrected only as the train approaches. Thus, a xx58 train is shown as arriving after the xx03. It causes loads of confusion, and grief for platform staff who have to tell people not to worry (the summary departure screen is always right though).

What's odd is that while it was showing a xx58 as following the xx03, it then announced an apology for the xx58 train being delayed by 6 minutes (switching to say Estimated xx04), when I could see from TRUST that it left on time. And it did arrive on time! No delay, and not after the 03.

And, more recently, there had been some delays from Moorgate and a 6-car train to 'Letchworth G City' arrived on platform 5 instead of 6. At this time, there is a Letchworth slow train, via Hertford, due for platform 6 and a Letchworth semi-fast, via WGC, for platform 5.

Now, what happened was the announcement system told people to stand clear as the train approaching wasn't due to stop, but it was slowing down (even though it was a green signal ahead). As it gets on to the platform, it is announced as the Letchworth train via Hertford! Most rushed over, many didn't (they may think that's the Letchworth train they don't want, and I'm certain most people for the WGC one got on without realising.

I still have no faith in the new system for when it handles multiple platforms or trains that run close together.

The announcements didn't seem to announce or show any trains that terminated at Finsbury Park (just showing them when they leave going back to Hertford/the two "G Cities" etc), which confused people. Also, I wanted to see how the gates would work but due to football there were about 10 people in First jackets standing around and the gates/side gate was open to go round them. A woman in front of me did touch in to the open gate, or so she thought, as it proudly displayed EXIT on the screen as she wandered off to wait for her train!

There also seems to be a "have your ticket ready" poster facing so people will read it just AFTER they have passed through the ticket gates!

Every time I look at them they look even more silly... the thing was at the time I was there there were no big crowds, just me and about 3 other people on the platform for about 20 minutes (I went down to AMT and back to get a coffee) so they could have closed the gates and waited until the actual crowds came to open them surely? *shrug*!

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Hey, as long as you can still trainspot there freely, we shouldn;t have a problem

 

[causton]

Hey, as long as you can still trainspot there freely, we shouldn;t have a problem

Well Jon did get in trouble taking photos of the new ticket gates (with the 10 or so staff there I didn't want to get in trouble doing the same, but I managed to get an inch away from one of their walkie talkies which they left next to the bin on a shelf!

So I wouldn't say you could still trainspot there so quickly

 

[jon0844]

I am going in to work tomorrow; I guess the gates will be open and unstaffed on a bank holiday, but as there are no trains to Moorgate running, I won't get off to check them out if they are on. I bet Tuesday morning will be fun for platforms 1/2.

..which is a shame, as given the fact I may take a photo of something at short notice I fully intend to sign-in every morning on my way to work, and possibly on the way back. I just need to find out where the station manager resides!

Once I've signed in, I presume I can take photos of anything I want! Mind you, the RPO did say it was illegal to take photos at all.. :roll:

 

[causton]

I am going in to work tomorrow; I guess the gates will be open and unstaffed on a bank holiday, but as there are no trains to Moorgate running, I won't get off to check them out if they are on. I bet Tuesday morning will be fun for platforms 1/2.

..which is a shame, as given the fact I may take a photo of something at short notice I fully intend to sign-in every morning on my way to work, and possibly on the way back. I just need to find out where the station manager resides!

Once I've signed in, I presume I can take photos of anything I want! Mind you, the RPO did say it was illegal to take photos at all.. :roll:

Does a sign-in ever expire? You could sign in once and then keep taking pictures forever!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Does a sign-in ever expire? You could sign in once and then keep taking pictures forever!

Yes, because if you sign in you must sign out when you leave. One point of signing in to visit anything is so that all visitors can be accounted for in an evacuation...

 

[Fred26]

I am going in to work tomorrow; I guess the gates will be open and unstaffed on a bank holiday, but as there are no trains to Moorgate running, I won't get off to check them out if they are on. I bet Tuesday morning will be fun for platforms 1/2.

..which is a shame, as given the fact I may take a photo of something at short notice I fully intend to sign-in every morning on my way to work, and possibly on the way back. I just need to find out where the station manager resides!

Once I've signed in, I presume I can take photos of anything I want! Mind you, the RPO did say it was illegal to take photos at all.. :roll:

The supervisors office is on the middle, barely used platform.

 

[jon0844]

Didn't sign in today - whoops!

There was some confusion about the gates this morning. Bear in mind that they went 'live' last Thursday afternoon - so many people haven't seen them switched on until now - and while they were on, the gates were all open (including the side gates). There were some members of staff just hanging around moaning about the shifts having been messed up, including one RPI with a name badge that just said 'T' on it! Wow, Mr T does revenue checks for FCC!!

Some people were coming up and saying they weren't sure about touching in - which made me wonder if they've moved/turned off the Oyster machine downstairs in the corridor? She was told to touch one of the gates, which she tried to do (but was touching one with a red cross/red light on the Oyster pad) and then told to go to the one with the green arrow. She now 'touched in' on the gate to go out!

Anyway, I chuckled to myself that they obviously couldn't cope with the passenger numbers on the very first day - and got my train to Moorgate. At Highbury and Islington I saw why there were no staff manning the gates.. they were all there. Loads of them - covering every single corridor connection to the Victoria Line.

They had opted to do a sting, presumably to catch all the people who didn't touch in at the open gates!

Now, I'm sure it's 100% legal and fine to do - but it seems cheeky and almost bordering on entrapment. There was nobody at FPK to warn people that they should remember to touch in! I guess FCC would say this is an effective way of getting the message over - and a nice bunch of £20 penalty fares too!

 

[jon0844]

I looked today and my suspicions were confirmed.. all the Oyster terminals are covered up and out of use, so with the gates open and looking like they're still to be turned on, no wonder they were set up to catch everyone out!! Must have been a very profitable day for PFs.

Sneaky buggers!! There are some posters telling people to use the gates, but they're not by the validators, which have nothing to say 'use the gates - even when turned off'.

I really do think they're working on the basis that people will not know the gates are now on. They weren't in operation tonight either, even though there are staff members present - who seem to openly talk about safety issues. I really think staff should perhaps keep their mouths shut, as they were talking to a number of passengers who were skeptical, and they made no attempt to defend the gates at all!

I even heard one member of staff say that 'they'd only do something' when someone fell under a train! That inspires confidence!

 

[Aictos]

I don't know why the Oyster terminals are covered up as I thought they would have been ready for use when the gates on the platforms went live.

 

[jon0844]

They're in use on the gates now, but because the gates were open all day today - people would think that they were still to go live. The LEDs on Cubic gates aren't that bright, and they've been sitting there turned off for weeks.

Also bear in mind they were turned on late on Thursday and most people would have been off on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. They've not seen them in use yet, and I do wonder when they actually will be in use!

I think they've realised they can catch loads of people out by doing this for a while. Now, sure, people should have all asked what to do this morning (as the one lady did, which made me wonder if they'd done something downstairs) given they couldn't touch in, and not just walked through and chanced it, but I still think it's cheeky as these people want to get to work and have found ALL of those photographed machines covered up with no explanation.

I did notice two posters, but they're not in good positions.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do the instructions shown on that last photo above ^^^ suggest that the tube and NR gatelines are now an OSI?

 

[causton]

Do the instructions shown on that last photo above ^^^ suggest that the tube and NR gatelines are now an OSI?

Yes, they seem to be. Problem is... the tube 'gateline' readers are all turned off! They were all turned off bar 2 on Sunday it seemed, but I'm very confused at this situation.

 

[mattdickinson]

It's a topological question. Before the gateline was installed the subway validators were in effect the FCC gateline. Now they are regarded as a "gateline" to the tube platforms, so only the validators next to the spiral staircases need to be on.

 

[jon0844]

I can fully understand why the FCC validators are not needed now, but they should have signs to explain why they're now covered up - and signs to tell people to touch in/out at the new gates, even though they're not being used (despite not being closed, they ARE now on).

Does anyone know when they will actually be put into proper use?

 

[stut]

Hmm. So how does it work now if you want to transfer from, say, a train to Peterborough to a Moorgate service when your rail ticket only covers you to FPK/KGX?

It was always something of a pain, given that you had to go and run downstairs to touch in, but now does that mean you have to exit on your rail ticket, and immediately reenter on your Oyster?

 

[jon0844]

I guess you go out and back in again.. If the gates are open, you could just touch the gateline reader (in either direction I think) with the Oyster and you're done. No need to put the paper ticket in obviously.

 

[swt_passenger]

I guess you go out and back in again.. If the gates are open, you could just touch the gateline reader (in either direction I think) with the Oyster and you're done. No need to put the paper ticket in obviously.

I read a cautionary tale somewhere that said that even when gatelines are opened, an individual gate's Oyster pads are still set to entry or exit for touching in and out. It is only standalone validators that will do either an entry or exit. Perhaps MikeWh knows the exact details - I know he investigated the previous situation at Finsbury Park, regarding 'continuation exit' recently?

It seems easy to make the wrong type of touch in these circumstances - especially as gates that are in/out switchable or bidirectional (like recent NR wide gates) will have Oyster pads on both sides...

 

[causton]

I thought if you touch on the pad facing 'out' it registers an exit and if you touch on the pad facing 'in' it registers an entry...

 

[jon0844]

If that's the case then the lady who was told to touch the gate facing the wrong way wouldn't have successfully touched in. I hope she didn't get off at Highbury & Islington.

 

[yorkie]

If that's the case then the lady who was told to touch the gate facing the wrong way wouldn't have successfully touched in. I hope she didn't get off at Highbury & Islington.

Some employees at FCC may have been hoping she did.

I am aware of some of the tricks that some FCC RPIs get up to, and they're absolutely disgraceful.

We managed to get someone out of being prosecuted for touching readers twice at Finsbury Park (they were following what they thought was the right advice on a poster you took a photo of), but FCC refuse to pay compensation or apologise.

 

[jon0844]

The gates are now working today! Wow.. there was a queue of people waiting to be given penalty fares, including one lady that was shouting and arguing and being told to be quiet by both FCC staff and a nearby police officer! In her case, she didn't have sufficient credit on her Oyster PAYG.

What surprised me was that one lady was giving a PF to someone who when asked VERY clearly 'if I hadn't been here to stop you, would you have left without paying?' laughed and said 'of course'. So, no attempt to deny that he would have deliberately avoided paying his fare.. So what happened next? A PF! Surely in these circumstances a PF doesn't apply? In fact, while waiting to change train I simply observed them issuing one PF after another, when they probably had many people who should have been prosecuted.

They may well have had one or two people who weren't able to buy a ticket before boarding (some of the stations on the Hertford Loop perhaps) but I'm pretty sure they were of the mindset that they just give a PF and let people appeal later.

I really am not against the gates. I was happy to learn they were going in at FPK, given the ease at getting in/out of the GN without having a ticket. However, I am concerned by the way they're being operated and the obvious attempt for the first two days to entrap people by letting them through with no obvious way to touch in/out, then nabbing them at another station along the line. I cannot recall in eight years EVER seeing revenue staff at Highbury & Islington on the train platform itself.

 

[causton]

Hmm... that's not very good if they're PFing EVERYONE! Probably easier than prosecuting though, but... Brookmans Park station had a problem at about 10-11am when I was there and there was a problem connecting to an outside network, as I had a ticket to pick up and a ticket to buy - I couldn't pick up my ticket as it 'couldn't connect to the reservation server'! And when I looked on the platform the "Please listen to announcements" message was showing - thankfully I checked the train times on my phone (train in the other direction was 3 down, warned the people on the opposite platform) and I could buy the ticket I needed (and the gates were open at my destination). And the machine let me pick up my pre-booked tickets at a different station

The gates seem to be fine when they're in operation - it's just what happens when they are not and people are unsure (when) to touch in and out...