CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[XCTurbostar]

Any idea what 197 this will be?

Realtime Trains | 6Q97 1101 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 23/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 6Q97 1101 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 23/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[BenBracken]

Had my second go on 197s today. First from Pembrokeshire. The acceleration is noticeably better and do they do seem to keep a better pace than the 175s. Have timetables been adjusted for them or are they still following what the 175s used to? Faults with the toilets on the return leg. Was a 3 car unit (107) neither toilet had any running water and one was blocked. Sounds a pretty regular problem according to the guard.

 

[craigybagel]

Had my second go on 197s today. First from Pembrokeshire. The acceleration is noticeably better and do they do seem to keep a better pace than the 175s. Have timetables been adjusted for them or are they still following what the 175s used to?

Still on the original timetable. Too many services being worked by slower units to risk changing the timetable yet. Also, there isn't that huge of a difference between a 197 on Eco mode and a 175 - at low speeds yes, but there isn't a huge difference in getting towards 90 or 100. It's a whole different story in Superpower mode, but I doubt they'd want to plan a timetable that requires using superpower so the time.

 

[Dan G]

What's the difference between the two modes? Revs held higher when accelerating above a threshold speed?

 

[craigybagel]

What's the difference between the two modes? Revs held higher when accelerating above a threshold speed?

That's pretty much it. It goes it in the lower gear for longer before changing. Better acceleration, but at a cost of increased diesel, adblue and general wear and tear.

 

[BenBracken]

That's pretty much it. It goes it in the lower gear for longer before changing. Better acceleration, but at a cost of increased diesel, adblue and general wear and tear.

So no incentive to use that mode whatsoever?!

 

[craigybagel]

So no incentive to use that mode whatsoever?!

I wouldn't say that - I've seen some astounding amounts of time made up on delayed trains. But I doubt the increased costs of every day would be seen to make an improved timetable worthwhile, especially as many of the paths are fixed in place around other operators services.

 

[tomoufc]

I wouldn't say that - I've seen some astounding amounts of time made up on delayed trains. But I doubt the increased costs of every day would be seen to make an improved timetable worthwhile, especially as many of the paths are fixed in place around other operators services.

Are there operating rules about this - eg you're allowed to use the booster jets if over 10 late?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2024 ==

Have timetables been adjusted for them or are they still following what the 175s used to?

I'd rather they don't adjust the timetable until the performance is sky high. Punctuality has to be the first target.

 

[craigybagel]

Are there operating rules about this - eg you're allowed to use the booster jets if over 10 late?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2024 ==

Drivers discretion for now. Personally I only use it when running late as it's pointless the rest of the time, you just end up waiting at stations.

 

[Jez]

Ive noticed recently far less substitutions for 197s on the Manchester to South Wales route. Yesterday I think just 1 x 150 was used to cover a 197 diagram (that started and ended at Cardiff I believe) and today there are 2 diagrams being subbed - 1 x 150 and a pair of 153s. If 197s werent covering so many MK4 then its possible all diagrams could be covered.

However ive not noticed many doubled up formations of 2 to 4 car. Quite a few are now 3 cars however. Any news on when we can expect more 197s accepted into service so they can run as 4 or 5 cars?

 

[Philip Roberts]

Do we know many 197s have been accepted in to service and how many more they're waiting for?

 

[Bob Price]

113 has been hauled up from Wolverton to Crewe today.

 

[Danfilm007]

ETCS will spread round the UK gradually, on the basis that is is cheaper than classic resignalling (which is deemed unaffordable anyway).
After the ECML (South) project, TRU is likely to follow, plus (probably) WCML North (Warrington/Preston/Carlisle).
Once the Manchester area gets it all TOCs will need ETCS-fitted trains, including those running TfW's services into Manchester.

Is there a thread to discuss this?

 

[sd0733]

However ive not noticed many doubled up formations of 2 to 4 car. Quite a few are now 3 cars however. Any news on when we can expect more 197s accepted into service so they can run as 4 or 5 cars?

That's the plan as a temporary for the spring. 2s and 4s on North Wales- Manchester/Cardiff (plus the diagrams that split in Manchester) and 3 car on Manchester-South Wales. With 5s still not permitted Shrewsbury-Manchester that's deemed best use of units over the spring

Acceptance is almost at a standstill seemingly. Lots of sets now going into Crewe but few seem to make it out again at the moment.

 

[Last Hurrah]

Will the Marches services be suitably strengthened this coming Sunday when Manchester United visit Newport County ?

Short formed sets will otherwise bring adverse headlines

 

[craigybagel]

Will the Marches services be suitably strengthened this coming Sunday when Manchester United visit Newport County ?

Short formed sets will otherwise bring adverse headlines

If it's United fans you're worried about, it'll be the GWR London trains that need strengthening that said, TfW did manage to put a 5 car on the first Cardiff - Holyhead service that followed the Newport Vs Wrexham match last weekend.

 

[MP393]

Will the Marches services be suitably strengthened this coming Sunday when Manchester United visit Newport County ?

Short formed sets will otherwise bring adverse headlines

Maximum of 4 coaches only with 197s between Manchester & Shrewsbury, anything longer isn’t cleared for service yet. The first departure of the day from Manchester is booked a mk4, the 09:30, but not sure where 5 car HD01 ends up this weekend - it would certainly be useful on that usually already busy service!

 

[Geeves]

Maximum of 4 coaches only with 197s between Manchester & Shrewsbury, anything longer isn’t cleared for service yet. The first departure of the day from Manchester is booked a mk4, the 09:30, but not sure where 5 car HD01 ends up this weekend - it would certainly be useful on that usually already busy service!

They were running 5 carriages back in December with 197s on the Cardiff to Holyhead so it seems like they are cleared already unless they stopped again...

Edit I have read your post properly, Manchester and Shrewsbury CHECK

 

[sd0733]

They were running 5 carriages back in December with 197s on the Cardiff to Holyhead so it seems like they are cleared already unless they stopped again...

Cardiff to Holyhead is but Shrewsbury Manchester isn't cleared for anything above 4 car 197.

 

[Jez]

That's the plan as a temporary for the spring. 2s and 4s on North Wales- Manchester/Cardiff (plus the diagrams that split in Manchester) and 3 car on Manchester-South Wales. With 5s still not permitted Shrewsbury-Manchester that's deemed best use of units over the spring

Acceptance is almost at a standstill seemingly. Lots of sets now going into Crewe but few seem to make it out again at the moment.

Thank you for the update sd0733. I had a feeling acceptance had slowed down, i think only 1 x 3 car has been introduced so far this month.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jan 2024 ==


Its been good to see 3 cars on some services however. Its a shame the 150 diagram yesterday included the 1730 Manchester to Cardiff which is one of the busiest services to South Wales out of Manchester. But we have come a long way from 9-10 months ago when most were Sprinters.

Will the Marches services be suitably strengthened this coming Sunday when Manchester United visit Newport County ?

Short formed sets will otherwise bring adverse headlines

Sunday often sees the longest formations of the week. Ive seen quite a few 4 car 197s and also 5 car Sprinters on a Sunday (usually either a 158 or 150 with 3 x 153s!)

 

[Jamesrob637]

So a few months more of mish-mash on Manchester to South Wales?

 

[Philip]

Was there a 7-car 197 working on the 09:25 Manchester Airport to Holyhead today?

 

[sd0733]

The first departure of the day from Manchester is booked a mk4, the 09:30, but not sure where 5 car HD01 ends up this weekend - it would certainly be useful on that usually already busy service!

Seems to be being kept captive on Crewe-Crewe diagrams over the next few days so it should be what's on that 09:30.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Shrewsbury Manchester isn't cleared for anything above 4 car 197.

Still? What's causing the delay?

 

[sd0733]

Still? What's causing the delay?

No sign of anything changing either hence the planned concentration of the 3s on the Manchesters. It would appear its a Network Rail decision not to allow them as it stands. Several rumours around why theyre not allowed but unsure what the actual reason is at this point.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No sign of anything changing either hence the planned concentration of the 3s on the Manchesters. It would appear its a Network Rail decision not to allow them as it stands.

I wonder what's prompting Network Rail to say that. That will be infuriating for many on the route if consistent 5 carriage services have been long promised and never materialise.

 

[sd0733]

I wonder what's prompting Network Rail to say that. That will be infuriating for many on the route if consistent 5 carriage services have been long promised and never materialise.

Especially when the (even longer) 5+2 Mk4s can run with no issues!
I'm sure at some point it'll be resolved with some tweaks here and there but it doesn't seem imminent.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are we any closer to more 3 cars being introduced into service that could mitigate the effects of this slightly?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Are we any closer to more 3 cars being introduced into service that could mitigate the effects of this slightly?

One year (and a bit!) on from the first one entering service, they really all should be in service now.

 

[Philip]

One year (and a bit!) on from the first one entering service, they really all should be in service now.

It took nearly 3 years between the first & last 175s entering service, so 197s are still nothing like as bad in comparison.