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It would appear that the 45 minute travel time that TOC’s place on vacancies for trainee train drivers is a farce. Someone I know commutes Milton Keynes to Woking via London. A 90 minute journey on a good day. And how many of them occur. Surely must be pushing it for fatigue levels?!?
It would appear that the 45 minute travel time that TOC’s place on vacancies for trainee train drivers is a farce. Someone I know commutes Milton Keynes to Woking via London. A 90 minute journey on a good day. And how many of them occur. Surely must be pushing it for fatigue levels?!?
It would appear that the 45 minute travel time that TOC’s place on vacancies for trainee train drivers is a farce. Someone I know commutes Milton Keynes to Woking via London. A 90 minute journey on a good day. And how many of them occur. Surely must be pushing it for fatigue levels?!?
Many reasons for this. You could have met the criteria initially as others have said, passed probation and qualified fully as a driver. After that you're pretty much free to move around as long as you're not turning up late for work and as a result bringing unneeded attention to yourself for that to be investigated.
Once qualified you're expected to managed your fatigue as its part of your fit for duty/ work that happens when you sign on everyday for work. The 45/60min is a fair rule when you factor in fatigue especially as a new starter where I believe multiple studies before the rule highlighted travel related fatigue as a contributor in fatigue related incidents with new drivers.
I’ve read plenty of people suggest on here about putting a relatives address down on the job application to make it appear that you live closer then you do.
Not sure what the company can do if you put down a false address, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be commuting for over 45 minutes before and after a shift.
Does the 45 minutes normally include the time it takes to drive from home to depot or is it only based on how long it takes using public transport? I know Southeastern refer to the time it takes using public transport for two of their London depots (including Charing Cross).
The government website states you must live within 1 hour. However all TOC's I've looked in to ask for 45 minutes. I have a start date in March and I am bang on the 45 minute limit for my depot.
I really wouldn't advise putting down a relatives address for a role where you are trying to show you are the right, trustworthy candidate for the role.
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Does the 45 minutes normally include the time it takes to drive from home to depot or is it only based on how long it takes using public transport? I know Southeastern refer to the time it takes using public transport for two of their London depots (including Charing Cross).
It is how long it takes for you to make your own way there.
During the application, and in fact the MMI interview, they specifically stated that public transport cannot be an option to be relied upon for travel in to work. (E.G you must have other options not just public transport).
Not sure what the company can do if you put down a false address, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be commuting for over 45 minutes before and after a shift.
It is how long it takes for you to make your own way there.
During the application, and in fact the MMI interview, they specifically stated that public transport cannot be an option to be relied upon for travel in to work. (E.G you must have other options not just public transport).
Some places have no other options; for example (as quoted) somewhere like Charing Cross has no allocated car parking and is easily reached by 24h London Buses as a minimum. Other London terminals are in similar situations and some lucky ones have taxi agreements, although these are on the decline.
Does the 45 minutes normally include the time it takes to drive from home to depot or is it only based on how long it takes using public transport? I know Southeastern refer to the time it takes using public transport for two of their London depots (including Charing Cross).
In many places public transport doesn’t run all through the night, I think there’s less than 50% of my book on or book off times that I would be able to commute using public transport. Although, at my toc, it does assume the worked will be travelling by car. I used to regularly walk for over 60 minutes each way to work but it me down as living a ten minute travel time away.
The government website states you must live within 1 hour. However all TOC's I've looked in to ask for 45 minutes. I have a start date in March and I am bang on the 45 minute limit for my depot.
I really wouldn't advise putting down a relatives address for a role where you are trying to show you are the right, trustworthy candidate for the role.
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It is how long it takes for you to make your own way there.
During the application, and in fact the MMI interview, they specifically stated that public transport cannot be an option to be relied upon for travel in to work. (E.G you must have other options not just public transport).
A manager told me at our place we adopted the 45 minute rule to ensure we comply with the 60 minute commute rule. Not sure how exactly that works though. Possibly taking into account that travel time will never be the same depending on what time you’re travelling at. Blatantly everyone checks their travel time at quiet times to show they live within an hour commute, so by reducing the advert to 45 minutes it ensures people’s travel times less than 60 minutes during peak times? I’m not sure. Just what I got told.
Does the 45 minutes normally include the time it takes to drive from home to depot or is it only based on how long it takes using public transport? I know Southeastern refer to the time it takes using public transport for two of their London depots (including Charing Cross).
The government website states you must live within 1 hour. However all TOC's I've looked in to ask for 45 minutes. I have a start date in March and I am bang on the 45 minute limit for my depot.
I really wouldn't advise putting down a relatives address for a role where you are trying to show you are the right, trustworthy candidate for the role.
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It is how long it takes for you to make your own way there.
During the application, and in fact the MMI interview, they specifically stated that public transport cannot be an option to be relied upon for travel in to work. (E.G you must have other options not just public transport).
Ok thanks, that's good to know - although it seems as though Southeastern might follow a different approach to other TOCs..
Correction to my original comment re the 45 mins I mentioned: Their job advert stated "applicants must live within a 40 minute driving time of their chosen depot (20 minutes travelling time by public transport for our London Victoria and Charing Cross depots). Unfortunately your application will not be considered if you do not meet the above requirement."
I clarified this with them and basically they do not care if you can drive to Victoria or Charing Cross within 40 or 20 minutes - they worry about the chances of losing any newly trained up staff who live in East London or Essex - anywhere that's nearby to the likes of c2c! They say their depot managers worry about the risk of potentially losing staff to c2c / other TOCs that pay more. This is despite that fact that c2c do not hire any drivers who are already trained up (they have only done so twice ever and have no intentions of doing so anymore).
For some depots (such as Dartford), Southeastern have stated that it does not matter if you can drive there in way less than 40 minutes: Even if you pass the initial sift of application forms and the situational judgement test that's included as part of the form - if you live north of the river, you will automatically be rejected if they were to put you through to the next stage (the tests). This is again due to depot managers (at least at Dartford) not wanting to take the risk of hiring anybody from north of the river!
I clarified this with them and basically they do not care if you can drive to Victoria or Charing Cross within 40 or 20 minutes - they worry about the chances of losing any newly trained up staff who live in East London or Essex - anywhere that's nearby to the likes of c2c! They say their depot managers worry about the risk of potentially losing staff to c2c / other TOCs that pay more. This is despite that fact that c2c do not hire any drivers who are already trained up (they have only done so twice ever and have no intentions of doing so anymore).
For some depots (such as Dartford), Southeastern have stated that it does not matter if you can drive there in way less than 40 minutes: Even if you pass the initial sift of application forms and the situational judgement test that's included as part of the form - if you live north of the river, you will automatically be rejected if they were to put you through to the next staged (the tests). This is again due to depot managers (at least at Dartford) not wanting to take the risk of hiring anybody from north of the river!
You can’t reject people based on their address if they meet the distance/time criteria. To do so, would essentially be discriminatory so I’d take this information with a pinch of salt.
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Some places have no other options; for example (as quoted) somewhere like Charing Cross has no allocated car parking and is easily reached by 24h London Buses as a minimum. Other London terminals are in similar situations and some lucky ones have taxi agreements, although these are on the decline.
I’m not sure. I’m certainly not encouraging people to lie on then job applications and hope it didn’t come across that way. But there’s plenty of people on here who have mentioned doing so in the past.
I love a nice ten minute commute from my depot so well within the travel time. As I said, I wouldn’t want to be travelling any more than 45 minutes to work and wouldn’t encourage anybody to do so. I’d also have little sympathy for anyone caught out lying.
You can’t reject people based on their address if they meet the distance/time criteria. To do so, would essentially be discriminatory so I’d take this information with a pinch of salt.
That's exactly what I thought when I was told this by their head of recruitment! However I was not only told this on the phone but I have it confirmed in an email too! Sadly as I'm not an employee, I think there is nothing I can do other than accept that's "just the way it is". I'm especially gutted because I was told that I would have definitely have been put forward to the next stage if it was not for the fears of the Dartford depot managers.
Some operators are more stringent than others... As I've alluded to before, my TOC is fairly relaxed so long as the situation is safe. I was taken on as a trainee living over an hour and a half away, but I moved closer when the opportunity arose. They also base it on public transport as well as driving oneself and, being a long distance, high speed line, we actually have a handful of drivers who live nearly 100 miles away from their depot!
On the other end of the spectrum, there are companies who will flatly refuse to take anybody on who lives further away than a 30 minute drive in rush hour traffic.
Once you get the job nothing is stopping you from moving further away, quite common for the London-based depots as housing is more affordable in outer London.
Not sure what the company can do if you put down a false address, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be commuting for over 45 minutes before and after a shift.
You can’t reject people based on their address if they meet the distance/time criteria. To do so, would essentially be discriminatory so I’d take this information with a pinch of salt.
But not discriminatory in way that would impact on a protected characteristic. It makes sense in the case of Dartford because, for someone living north of the river, there’s essentially no way to get to work if the Dartford Crossing is blocked/congested.
That's exactly what I thought when I was told this by their head of recruitment! However I was not only told this on the phone but I have it confirmed in an email too!
Sadly as I'm not an employee, I think there is nothing I can do other than accept that's "just the way it is". I'm especially gutted because I was told that I would have definitely have been put forward to the next stage if it was not for the fears of the Dartford depot managers.
The problem with Dartford is if you take the 40 minute rule you can get quite deep into Essex. The Bridge was closed the other day for quite some time and the Tunnel is rather notorious for traffic hell. If you live that side of the water, why not apply somewhere more local ?
The Depot Managers do not have that much control or influence over recruitment other than at the DMI
For some depots (such as Dartford), Southeastern have stated that it does not matter if you can drive there in way less than 40 minutes: Even if you pass the initial sift of application forms and the situational judgement test that's included as part of the form - if you live north of the river, you will automatically be rejected if they were to put you through to the next stage (the tests). This is again due to depot managers (at least at Dartford) not wanting to take the risk of hiring anybody from north of the river!
I was invited to interview for slade green and I’m north of the river. Not very far from the bridge. I had already passed the psychometrics. This was a few years ago now though.
The problem with Dartford is if you take the 40 minute rule you can get quite deep into Essex. The Bridge was closed the other day for quite some time and the Tunnel is rather notorious for traffic hell. If you live that side of the water, why not apply somewhere more local ?
The Depot Managers do not have that much control or influence over recruitment other than at the DMI
If the bridge is closed, there's no doubt it can be a nightmare. Only realistic alternatives would be Woolwich Ferry or Rotherhithe Tunnel.
But you could also say the same about many other routes in and around the M25 or London area. Sometimes if a main A road is closed, it means all other roads in the area are full of traffic instead - and anybody driving who gets stuck in such traffic would be late for their shift / late getting home regardless. I don't see how such an unwritten rule can only be applied to anyone living north of the river that wants the chance to work at the Dartford depot! Worse still, as mentioned, the reason Southeastern tell me this is in place is due to them not wanting to hire anyone who might later switch to a rival TOC that pays more such as c2c (their words).
Perhaps the head of recruitment was referring to the depot managers if and when anybody makes it through to the DMI stage. It wasn't confirmed at which stage they would reject anyone north of the river - only that they would.
I have been looking since the start of last October and I would apply to other TOCs more local - but there have been very few opportunities since then. Did try for c2c but I did not pass the initial sift of applications for that one (was told there were around 1000 applicants for 4 - 6 positions).
Re the email: Is there any way you are able to DM me? Not seen that option here.
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Does anyone have any idea on when Greater Anglia or MTR EL / Crossrail might next be looking to recruit trainee train drivers? Apart from c2c, these are both local for me too.
I’ve read plenty of people suggest on here about putting a relatives address down on the job application to make it appear that you live closer then you do.
Not sure what the company can do if you put down a false address, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be commuting for over 45 minutes before and after a shift.
Dismissal if you lie about your permanent home address, they may want a council tax bill or similar as proof prior to your employment contract being offered.
I’ve read plenty of people suggest on here about putting a relatives address down on the job application to make it appear that you live closer then you do.
Not sure what the company can do if you put down a false address, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be commuting for over 45 minutes before and after a shift.
You risk being sacked.
Sure there was once a signaller at Thames Valley (??) whose home address was in the Midlands, but he lived during shift times on his narrow boat near Reading.
You risk being sacked.
Sure there was once a signaller at Thames Valley (??) whose home address was in the Midlands, but he lived during shift times on his narrow boat near Reading.
If it was found out before you were offered the job, perhaps the offer would be rescinded. But if you move post hire, there’s little that can be done. I have a couple of colleagues who are 80-100 miles from work.
Whether undertaking a mega commute, before spending 10 hours driving trains up and down the country is wise or not is another question, of course.
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Quite easily, by simply rejecting anyone who applies with an Essex/RM postcode, I imagine. (I also don’t think SE Dartford is a depot many people aspire to join, but that’s beside the point!)
How is that any different from TOCs drawing “acceptable commuting distance” lines on a map, and rejecting anyone who lives outside them?
It is a farce. There are loads of driver at my company who have moved well outside the hour travel window they were given when they signed up.
The company are well aware of where they have moved to, as these ppl still manage to get taxis in.
It shouldn't be allowed but the company have never enforced the travel envelope once you're employed.
If you move further away after taking the job that’s up to you. Personally I’m only 20 mins from the depot my so lives 45 mins but both of our journeys can easily be doubled at times.
It is a farce. There are loads of driver at my company who have moved well outside the hour travel window they were given when they signed up.
The company are well aware of where they have moved to, as these ppl still manage to get taxis in.
It shouldn't be allowed but the company have never enforced the travel envelope once you're employed.
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