CrossCountry compulsory reservations: forcing passengers into 1st class

[MrJeeves]

CrossCountry seem to have started doing compulsory reservations on some services, but only between Birmingham New Street and Wolverhampton.

This appears to be part of an attempt to prevent walk-ups from Birmingham to Wolverhampton from being issued on these services if there are no seats remaining, and trying to force local journeys to be made on TfW/WMR/LNR.

You can see on Timetable History below:

• Reservations available from Bournemouth to Birmingham New Street
• Reservations compulsory from Birmingham New Street to Wolverhampton
• Reservations available from Wolverhampton

Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly on 10/01/2024 | Train Timetable

timetablehistory.com

Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly on 10/01/2024 | Train Timetable

timetablehistory.com

If you try booking the 17:01 service today online, you'll be forced to pay double the price for a 1st class single as there's no more standard class reservations available.

Even better, the 19:01 is also affected. This is a 3x increase in cost over the West Mids PTA evening day return which is valid on that CrossCountry service for £2.80 compared to the inflated £8.40 1st single price.

20:01 and later are not affected, and will show the £2.80 ticket on the forum's and TrainSplit's site.

 

[Merseysider]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but having seen how disgustingly overcrowded these services can get, anything that frees up seats for long distance passengers is a good thing.

There is a Liverpool train 3 minutes after the XC, and an Avanti 3-4 minutes after that too.

I don’t know if it’s possible, but counted place reservations for BHM-WVH journeys would be a better solution that avoids potentially overcharging anyone.

 

[Kite159]

Although it will be likely be completely ignored by those who have season tickets or other walk up tickets who will still board the XC services as the next available service. Especially as it's nonstop.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Yep, this will not solve the problem in the evening rush, for exactly the reason that @Kite159 states above. The problem is caused by people commuting between those two stations* with season tickets, and not by people booking advance between those stations, and most of those commuters will not be swayed from just getting the first available service when they rock up to New Street.

I count myself amongst those commuters, but I'm probably in the minority in that I will avoid the Manchester train like the plague in the evening...


* Well, the problem is caused by the units being inadequate, but that's by-the-by...

 

[Djgr]

These are almost certainly not real compulsory reservations and walk on tickets remain valid for any train including these

 

[MrJeeves]

These are almost certainly not real compulsory reservations and walk on tickets remain valid for any train including these

Well no, quite obviously that's the case, as per the compulsory reservations on Avanti, LNER and most other services.

 

[sheff1]

CrossCountry seem to have started doing compulsory reservations on some services, but only between Birmingham New Street and Wolverhampton.

This appears to be part of an attempt to prevent walk-ups from Birmingham to Wolverhampton from being issued on these services if there are no seats remaining, and trying to force local journeys to be made on TfW/WMR/LNR.

I am not sure how the systems work, but does the change also mean it is not possible for people to book walk up tickets for longer distance journeys which include the Birmingham Wolverhampton section - e.g. Birmingham to Manchester, Oxford to Wolverhampton and so on ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not sure how the systems work, but does the change also mean it is not possible for people to book walk up tickets for longer distance journeys which include the Birmingham Wolverhampton section - e.g. Birmingham to Manchester, Oxford to Wolverhampton and so on ?

Yes, it would (on those trains - you could probably force LNR+Northern/TfW to get a ticket).

What an utter, utter bodge.

 

[sheff1]

Yes, it would

Which is a much more serious issue in my view. As others have said most people travelling just between Birmingham and Wolverhampton will already hold tickets and will board anyway, meanwhile those wishing to make longer journeys will not be able to buy a ticket from a journey planner using site/app (which is most of them now) or TVM.

 

[MrJeeves]

Yes, it would (on those trains - you could probably force LNR+Northern/TfW to get a ticket).

What an utter, utter bodge.

Well theoretically, but that's not really what we saw when looking into this. In fact, no retailer showed seating reservation availability except Trainline who offered SplitSave on Advances and allocated us seats.

And forcing the flexible off-peak ticket, it allowed no reservations to be made:

On Track Retail also didn't require reservations:

And nor did GWR:

Raileasy offered split flexible singles without any reservations either:

TrainSplit offered split flexible 1st class singles, but we need to look into why the entire journey was forced to be 1st class instead of only the portion that has compulsory reservations:

It's unclear whether most retailers are interpreting the spec wrong or whether something else is at play.

Trainline offering seats is a complete mystery, though, considering no other retailer could give us a seat reservation for that service at all, or offer advance ticket(s) for the journey.

 

[Watershed]

It's unclear whether most retailers are interpreting the spec wrong or whether something else is at play.

It's possible that they are ignoring the en-route change to the reservation status.

 

[MrJeeves]

It's possible that they are ignoring the en-route change to the reservation status.

That's our assumption but when it's (basically) every other retailer...? Really?

 

[alistairlees]

It's possible that they are ignoring the en-route change to the reservation status.

I assumed the CR record was being ignored too. If it still exists, that late Nottingham to Matlock service that changes at Derby could be used to test it.

 

[robbeech]

Which is a much more serious issue in my view. As others have said most people travelling just between Birmingham and Wolverhampton will already hold tickets and will board anyway, meanwhile those wishing to make longer journeys will not be able to buy a ticket from a journey planner using site/app (which is most of them now) or TVM.

Or, in theory (although some of the evidence shows above suggests it might not always be a problem) those on a longer journey may be forced into an even longer journey with more changes, avoiding XC. I suspect the revenue distribution (or current methods however it works this week) still favours those providing the faster and / or more frequent services?

 

[SeanG]

I'm not sure if these compulsory reservations are the case, having checked Cross Country's own timetable there is no mention of this (right hand column for the 1701 ex Birmingham New Street)

 

[Watershed]

I'm not sure if these compulsory reservations are the case, having checked Cross Country's own timetable there is no mention of this (right hand column for the 1701 ex Birmingham New Street)

View attachment 150090

They exist in the electronic timetable data, which is what journey planners use when determining the reservation status of a train (and hence whether they can sell tickets without a reservation if the train shows as fully reserved).

There's certainly a problem with overcrowding - I just saw well over 100 people get off the 19:01 from Birmingham New Street at Wolverhampton - but this isn't the way to fix it. Perhaps First should be declassified for that section.

 

[redreni]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but having seen how disgustingly overcrowded these services can get, anything that frees up seats for long distance passengers is a good thing.

There is a Liverpool train 3 minutes after the XC, and an Avanti 3-4 minutes after that too.

I don’t know if it’s possible, but counted place reservations for BHM-WVH journeys would be a better solution that avoids potentially overcharging anyone.

If that opinion is indeed unpopular, then I'd argue that's quite understandable.

If you're travelling a long distance and have a seat reservation while I'm travelling a short distance and have no seat reservation, under no circumstance should I be taking your seat. Even if I'm spectacularly rude and I sit in your reserved seat and refuse to move, I'm not going to be able to deny you a seat for very long, am I? I'm only travelling a short distance, remember.

 

[TUC]

Well no, quite obviously that's the case, as per the compulsory reservations on Avanti, LNER and most other services.

Surely this is just there to be ignored? Any walk-up ticket is valid.

 

[redreni]

They exist in the electronic timetable data, which is what journey planners use when determining the reservation status of a train (and hence whether they can sell tickets without a reservation if the train shows as fully reserved).

There's certainly a problem with overcrowding - I just saw well over 100 people get off the 19:01 from Birmingham New Street at Wolverhampton - but this isn't the way to fix it. Perhaps First should be declassified for that section.

Perhaps the HSTs should have been retained in the short term and replaced in the medium term?

 

[JonathanH]

Surely this is just there to be ignored? Any walk-up ticket is valid.

Whilst true, the benefit of this with many people using the Trainline app, and e-tickets, is that the services won't appear in searches for Birmingham to Wolverhampton trains for on the day travel.

I would imagine that it also may force changes between services to be at Birmingham rather than Wolverhampton.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Both trainline & XC allow me to book the 18:16 Leamington to Stoke with advance and walk-up tickets and a seat reservation. They both also permit seat reservations on the 19:01 (same train) Birmingham to Wolverhampton.
Either something went wrong yesterday, or trainline and XC are both ignoring it

 

[JonathanH]

Both trainline & XC allow me to book the 18:16 Leamington to Stoke with advance and walk-up tickets and a seat reservation. They both also permit seat reservations on the 19:01 (same train) Birmingham to Wolverhampton.
Either something went wrong yesterday, or trainline and XC are both ignoring it

Isn't that because the train still has reservable capacity available? The point is to manage that capacity, not prevent people booking on the trains.

 

[MrJeeves]

Isn't that because the train still has reservable capacity available?

Yes.

 

[jayah]

CrossCountry seem to have started doing compulsory reservations on some services, but only between Birmingham New Street and Wolverhampton.

This appears to be part of an attempt to prevent walk-ups from Birmingham to Wolverhampton from being issued on these services if there are no seats remaining, and trying to force local journeys to be made on TfW/WMR/LNR.

You can see on Timetable History below:

Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly on 10/01/2024 | Train Timetable

timetablehistory.com

Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly on 10/01/2024 | Train Timetable

timetablehistory.com

If you try booking the 17:01 service today online, you'll be forced to pay double the price for a 1st class single as there's no more standard class reservations available.

Even better, the 19:01 is also affected. This is a 3x increase in cost over the West Mids PTA evening day return which is valid on that CrossCountry service for £2.80 compared to the inflated £8.40 1st single price.

20:01 and later are not affected, and will show the £2.80 ticket on the forum's and TrainSplit's site.

View attachment 150017
View attachment 150018

Sounds like what they did during COVID, except then you could only buy First Class because they only booked up one set, and their social media were telling the railway staff and pass holders to sit in one of the unreserved coaches.

 

[jayah]

Perhaps the HSTs should have been retained in the short term and replaced in the medium term?

Their latest contract involves fitting a passenger counting system to the refurbished Voyagers, so perhaps in 3 years the decision makers will have caught up with you.