GWR Bristol - Oxford service

[Nicholas43]

GWR have announced proposed departure times for 2 trains a day on Saturdays, starting September 2024, from Bristol Temple Meads to Oxford and back. No information about what rolling stock.

Great Western Railway planning to restore direct Bristol-Oxford services | GWR News

Great Western Railway is planning to run direct services between Bristol Temple Meads and Oxford for the first time in more than 20 years.

news.gwr.com

Great Western Railway is planning to run direct services between Bristol Temple Meads and Oxford for the first time in more than 20 years.

The website provides details of the intended timetable, and a quote from Mark Hopwood hoping that the route has potential.

 

[py_megapixel]

My first thought is where are they hoping to get the rolling stock from?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Those dates put it post-summer so in theory the Pembroke set becomes available. An IET is the only practical option given the 125mph sections and the proposed journey times.

 

[30907]

Those dates put it post-summer so in theory the Pembroke set becomes available.

...and the set for the Newquay extensions (and any other summer Saturday workings).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Those dates put it post-summer so in theory the Pembroke set becomes available.

Only until it’s required again next year though.

I really don’t want to be THAT guy, but I would really prefer “surplus” IETs to be used to fix the consistent plague of five car London South Wales services first?

 

[Benjwri]

Only until it’s required again next year though.

Although only a trial until December, so won't necessarily remain at all after then, and very likely not in the same form.

The timings quoted in the above statement do suggest it will be only part of a units diagram, as it is unlikely to be able to take a platform up at BTM for 2 hours, presumably it is being used for something else in the peaks and between the two runs to Oxford.

 

[Horizon22]

The timings quoted in the above statement do suggest it will be only part of a units diagram, as it is unlikely to be able to take a platform up at BTM for 2 hours, presumably it is being used for something else in the peaks and between the two runs to Oxford.

Could probably fit in an early morning Bristol - Pad - Bristol run in before the 1018 departure. IET from Stoke Gifford for one of the first departures of the day.

 

[Snow1964]

They also managed to muster 2-3 spare IETs on Saturdays when Bath Christmas markets were on, with extras running Westbury-Bristol Parkway and Bristol TM-Swindon.

Of course it could be selective PR spin, and the announcement means service cut elsewhere which they are keeping quiet about so rather than extra services, just different services.

 

[dk1]

Good news. More might emerge after EWR begins. These things are often a foretaste of things to come.

 

[class ep-09]

My first thought is where are they hoping to get the rolling stock from?

There is slightly less train running on Saturdays - no peak time extra services as on weekdays , so stock may be coming from there .

 

[northernbelle]

There is slightly less train running on Saturdays - no peak time extra services as on weekdays , so stock may be coming from there .

Not to mention the service would start on 14 Sept - after summer only Newquay/Pembroke trains have finished and presumably freed up an IET or two.

 

[evergreenadam]

Have always thought there that there is a lot of potential for a regular Bristol to Oxford service, currently a market that rail does not serve very well.

 

[John R]

Have always thought there that there is a lot of potential for a regular Bristol to Oxford service, currently a market that rail does not serve very well.

There was a regular service introduced following privatisation that lasted a few years before the Strategic Rail Authority axed it under the pretext of slimming marginal services to improve performance (less congestion at key points of the network).

It was operated by turbos though, and presumably was difficult to time between Swindon and Didcot when you also had a load of coal traffic to Didcot PS to path too.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Have always thought there that there is a lot of potential for a regular Bristol to Oxford service, currently a market that rail does not serve very well.

And not a small market either - the origin-destination matrix figures suggest that over 90,000 journeys were made between Oxford and stations along the line (33k from/to Swindon, 29k from/to Bristol Temple Meads, 24k from/to Bath, 6k from/to Chippenham). There aren't many flows involving a change which are well into five figures annually.

 

[stuu]

Have always thought there that there is a lot of potential for a regular Bristol to Oxford service, currently a market that rail does not serve very well.

It takes 1hr and 20 odd minutes, every half an hour all day, with a quick change at Didcot. That's not my idea of "a market rail does not serve very well"

 

[lachlan]

It takes 1hr and 20 odd minutes, every half an hour all day, with a quick change at Didcot. That's not my idea of "a market rail does not serve very well"

Not all services call at Didcot though. You can double-back at Reading but this incurs extra ticket costs

 

[fgwrich]

I think this could also be the final shot in the arm for the never reaching reality Go-Op service too - its core plan was Swindon > Oxford with ever varying starting points.

 

[Benjwri]

It takes 1hr and 20 odd minutes, every half an hour all day, with a quick change at Didcot. That's not my idea of "a market rail does not serve very well"

Except going the other way it is 1hr 35 with a 20 minute wait at Didcot, and going the quicker way with such a short change it’s very often missed as the shuttle leaves before the Bristol service arrives due to delays. Not to mention that on every other service you’re crammed onto a turbo which is known to leave people behind at Oxford. Even the IET services leave people behind sometimes.

Regardless I think it’s that undeniable that it’s worth a trial to see how many people would use a service that cuts the journey time by 20 minutes, and at best will provide some extra capacity on some fairly heavily loaded services. For about half the time it will be running (Mid November to December) the stock running this service would’ve been running Bath Christmas Market extras on a Saturday anyways.

 

[MarkyT]

There was a regular service introduced following privatisation that lasted a few years before the Strategic Rail Authority axed it under the pretext of slimming marginal services to improve performance (less congestion at key points of the network).

It was operated by turbos though, and presumably was difficult to time between Swindon and Didcot when you also had a load of coal traffic to Didcot PS to path too.

I think the service was only able to run at all with turbos after the relief lines were put in between Wantage Road and Challow, a freight scheme in the early 1990s specifically for the coal imports. Having one or two relief line stops along that 3.5 mile section for a turbo or similar unit might benefit pathing as a 90mph unit with some stops every so often can quite closely match sustained 60mph freight timings on average, and you want to be 'in the loop' long enough for a following 125mph train to zip past in the same direction otherwise you'll be waiting a while at the end of the relief to rejoin the main. Today, while there's still other freight using the reliefs, the coal trains and Didcot power station have long gone.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2024 ==

I don't think this trial service is missing out Didcot by choice. That one journey out of four they're proposing will stop suggests a desire to call but I expect on the other trips the station is already full of electrics and turbos reversing at the relevant times, so the trains have no choice but to use the west curve and forego the stop.

 

[The exile]

I think this could also be the final shot in the arm for the never reaching reality Go-Op service too - its core plan was Swindon > Oxford with ever varying starting points.

Surely the opposite - more like the final nail in their coffin.

 

[evergreenadam]

And not a small market either - the origin-destination matrix figures suggest that over 90,000 journeys were made between Oxford and stations along the line (33k from/to Swindon, 29k from/to Bristol Temple Meads, 24k from/to Bath, 6k from/to Chippenham). There aren't many flows involving a change which are well into five figures annually.

It could also potentially serve the oft proposed station at Grove/Wantage, which would be another travel market to tap into. Providing that it can be pathed without causing delay to other services and rolling stock could be found, the introduction of a direct service from Bristol to Oxford with the potential to extend to Milton Keynes in the future would seem like a no brainer.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I used to commute from Oxford to Swindon on the 08:16 non-stop via the Foxhall Curve arriving 08:48, ideal for a 09:00 start of work. Unfortunately it was frequently cancelled, running about 3 times a week, so I was often late into the office. There was only one other regular commuter. I eventually got a job in Didcot for an easier journey.

 

[lachlan]

Here's hoping the service will become more regular as extra Chippenham-Bristol trains would be very welcome. Also looking forward to journeys to Oxford and beyond with fewer changes

 

[Benjwri]

I expect on the other trips the station is already full of electrics and turbos reversing at the relevant times, so the trains have no choice but to use the west curve and forego the stop.

At least for the later Oxford to Bristol there is space for it to stop at Didcot in the platforms themselves, so I would guess it is more about measuring differences in usage with the extended journey time stopping at Didcot, and probably most importantly for there not being a service from Bristol to Oxford stopping at Didcot, I would guess the paths just don't match up, and there isn't time between the path they've found from Bristol to Didcot and the path from Didcot to Oxford to reverse.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

At least for the later Oxford to Bristol there is space for it to stop at Didcot in the platforms themselves, so I would guess it is more about measuring differences in usage with the extended journey time stopping at Didcot, and probably most importantly for there not being a service from Bristol to Oxford stopping at Didcot, I would guess the paths just don't match up, and there isn't time between the path they've found from Bristol to Didcot and the path from Didcot to Oxford to reverse.

If the service is designed to improve journey opportunities between Oxford and Swindon/Chippenham/Bath/Bristol then Didcot is fairly irrelevant as it has frequent links to both. I suspect the Didcot call is simply so that the available paths match up, otherwise there would be a long wait on the Foxhall curve (and associated risk of wrong regulation etc.)

 

[fgwrich]

Surely the opposite - more like the final nail in their coffin.

I should have chosen my phrase better I think - pretty much what I meant.

 

[infobleep]

Is this only planned for Saturdays to tap into a leisure Market that isn't there Monday to Friday.

I'm sure I got an Oxford to Bristol service whilst at University in 1999.

 

[John R]

Is this only planned for Daturdays to tap into a leisure Market that isn't there Monday to Friday.

I'm sure I got an Oxford to Bristol service whilst at University in 1999.

I suspect it’s more that there is a spare unit on Saturday to trial the service.

And yes, there was a direct service introduced post privitisation that was withdrawn in 2003, so you are not imagining that journey in 1999.

 

[The exile]

I suspect it’s more that there is a spare unit on Saturday to trial the service.

And yes, there was a direct service introduced post privitisation that was withdrawn in 2003, so you are not imagining that journey in 1999.

Though the leisure market (and the pre-Christmas overcrowding) is particularly strong at weekends.

 

[anthony263]

Anyone got the timetable for the old Bristol to Oxford service?

Theres certainly demand. People can be put off using rail if there's no direct service as People don't always want to change trains on a journey