Redevelopment Plans for Liverpool Street - Development Policy Going Backwards

[yorksrob]

I couldn’t agree more.

I think how much more beautiful Cannon St might have been had the glass barrel-vaulted roof survived the War too.

Indeed !

 

[Dr Hoo]

I ended up travelling through Liverpool Street this xmas due to the Cross being closed and I made sure to have a good look around on the Concourse.

It struck me once again just what a good job BR did in the 1980's. The roof is what a station roof should be and the new section enhances the beauty of the Victorian train shed beyond what it was within the constriction of the original buildings.

It will be a travesty if it is destroyed.

Did you by any chance have the opportunity to talk to anybody with a mobility impairment, heavy luggage, a buggy with small children, etc. who had just struggled up from the Westbound Hammersmith & City line platform or from the Central Line whether they also regarded retention of the pastiche roof as a vital priority?

 

[yorksrob]

Did you by any chance have the opportunity to talk to anybody with a mobility impairment, heavy luggage, a buggy with small children, etc. who had just struggled up from the Westbound Hammersmith & City line platform or from the Central Line whether they also regarded retention of the pastiche roof as a vital priority?

No I didn't, but then again, I didn't see anyone suggesting that the place needed a hideous carbuncle plonked on top of it either.

 

[Trainbike46]

Did you by any chance have the opportunity to talk to anybody with a mobility impairment, heavy luggage, a buggy with small children, etc. who had just struggled up from the Westbound Hammersmith & City line platform or from the Central Line whether they also regarded retention of the pastiche roof as a vital priority?

Liverpool street Tube station would be much improved by step free access to all lines and platforms; However, wouldn't that be a TfL project (as TfL own the tube station) and it certainly wouldn't require as massive a project as proposed here

 

[Dr Hoo]

Liverpool street Tube station would be much improved by step free access to all lines and platforms; However, wouldn't that be a TfL project (as TfL own the tube station) and it certainly wouldn't require as massive a project as proposed here

The original coverage, e.g. a New Civil Engineer article in October 2022, stated that there would be step free access to all London Underground lines.

 

[Trainbike46]

The original coverage, e.g. a New Civil Engineer article in October 2022, stated that there would be step free access to all London Underground lines.

I must have missed that, my apologies; the step free access to the central line and westbound subsurface lines would be the only part of the project I would accept as a benefit (and a major one at that); I'd still maintain that it doesn't require building a massive structure on-top

 

[Dr Hoo]

I must have missed that, my apologies; the step free access to the central line and westbound subsurface lines would be the only part of the project I would accept as a benefit (and a major one at that); I'd still maintain that it doesn't require building a massive structure on-top

I think that the issue is one of where TfL would fund such a project from, on their own. Even if they could find the cash there would presumably be an opportunity cost insofar as it might have been spent at another lift-less station - places like Baker Street or Oxford Circus spring immediately to mind.

There might also be issues about how new LUL lifts might interface with the structure and levels of the current Liverpool Street rather than being planned and delivered as part of an integrated project.

What is at stake is hundreds of millions of pounds of external money for potential station improvements against arguments that seem to rest almost wholly on aesthetics.

 

[itsgren]

Network rails plan for the redevelopment of Liverpool Street http://www.timeforliverpoolstreet.co.uk/

Press Release

It's time for Liverpool Street Station

Network Rail Property launches consultation on new plans to transform Britain’s busiest station.

gloo.to

 

[CapitalStar378]

There isn't a huge amount of information and just 5 images on the website, not much to base your feedback on.

 

[swt_passenger]

“It’s time the station becomes a destination in its own right, to handle the demands of the future.”

Is that really the case? Hasn’t Waterloo, (The Sidings), shown that to be a flawed position?

Don’t most people just want a seamless onward journey to their real destination, with minimal delays as they pass through the terminus to/from other modes such as Underground or Crossrail in this case?

 

[Meerkat]

Is that really the case? Hasn’t Waterloo, (The Sidings), shown that to be a flawed position?

Don’t most people just want a seamless onward journey to their real destination, with minimal delays as they pass through the terminus to/from other modes such as Underground or Crossrail in this case?

The Sidings got completed at a bad time for commercial property. Once they redevelop the grim blocks next to it then it should get an upsurge in demand as it becomes a route into the station from the Wheel direction (unless they get round to building the southern entrance under the platforms)
Liverpool St would create a big space away from traffic in an area which still has lots of office workers about.

 

[Tezza1978]

Network rails plan for the redevelopment of Liverpool Street http://www.timeforliverpoolstreet.co.uk/

Press Release

It's time for Liverpool Street Station

Network Rail Property launches consultation on new plans to transform Britain’s busiest station.

gloo.to

On the surface this does look like a better plan than the previous one which was roundly condemned.

They definitely need to clear the gate line of retail units at Liverpool St as part of the refurb (which they seemingly are doing)

 

[Dr Hoo]

Don’t most people just want a seamless onward journey to their real destination, with minimal delays as they pass through the terminus to/from other modes such as Underground or Crossrail in this case?

Possibly for the ‘classic commuter’. But station retail and refreshment facilities are really useful to many travellers.

I know that East Anglia isn’t quite the Peak District but when I am at St Pancras en route to/from my home in a small village it is so handy to be able to pop to a pharmacy or a bookshop. I am often on my way to ‘celebrations’ or visits and it is very useful to be able to obtain hospitality gifts, cards and so on. Over the years I have arranged and had plenty of brief business chats and informal meetings with colleagues without having to even leave the station. Very easy for them to pop out of the office and drop by.

There are plenty of meeter/greeter and weeper/wailer scenarios around families heading to or from airports and Eurostar.

Basically, loads of opportunities.

How is the ‘bee line’ traveller delayed by a few shops or restaurants to one side used by others? Do you expect shops, pubs, cafes and so on to be removed from alongside your walk to the ‘other’ station in the suburbs?

 

[Bald Rick]

The retail revenue income at Liverpool St was, and presumably still is, astronomical. A surprisingly high proportion of travellers make regular purchases, and it is also already a ‘destination’ for locally based office workers for their lunch and some shopping needs. Its certainly where I used to go when I worked up the road.

Anything that improves facilities for passengers, and brings in significant extra income for the railway has to be the right thing to do.

 

[Benjwri]

Is that really the case? Hasn’t Waterloo, (The Sidings), shown that to be a flawed position?

Don’t most people just want a seamless onward journey to their real destination, with minimal delays as they pass through the terminus to/from other modes such as Underground or Crossrail in this case?

Hasn’t St Pancras proved the opposite?

 

[sh24]

The Sidings isn’t in a good location for the current passenger flows. Little passing traffic and it’s a pain to get to (relatively speaking). Both St P and Liverpool Street have much better sited retail.

 

[Russel]

Taking the latest plans at face value, they do seem a big improvement on the original plans.

 

[Highview]

It's good to see the 315s back in the architect's pictures...

 

[sh24]

Taking the latest plans at face value, they do seem a big improvement on the original plans.

Agree - this looks better though I'm still interested to see what's planned for the plaza area by the McDonalds.

 

[Russel]

Agree - this looks better though I'm still interested to see what's planned for the plaza area by the McDonalds.

Yeah, to me that area has always looked a bit scruffy, but given it's such a high traffic area, whatever is done with it will end up looking just as scruffy within 12 months.

 

[Meerkat]

The Sidings isn’t in a good location for the current passenger flows. Little passing traffic and it’s a pain to get to (relatively speaking). Both St P and Liverpool Street have much better sited retail.

It will have a lot more passing traffic now it has a Spoons!

 

[fandroid]

The Sidings isn’t in a good location for the current passenger flows. Little passing traffic and it’s a pain to get to (relatively speaking). Both St P and Liverpool Street have much better sited retail.

The footfall in the Sidings increased dramatically while the main station toilets were closed! All back to normal though now.

 

[Bald Rick]

The footfall in the Sidings increased dramatically while the main station toilets were closed! All back to normal though now.

only as far as the toilets though!

the new pub hasnt had any discernible effect.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Glad they're keeping the great Eastern hotel and celebrating it

 

[Russel]

The Sidings isn’t in a good location for the current passenger flows. Little passing traffic and it’s a pain to get to (relatively speaking). Both St P and Liverpool Street have much better sited retail.

Late one evening in March I nipped into the Sidings looking for the toilets, there was no one else around and all of the retail units looked either closed or empty, I started to think I had wandered into an area that wasn't open to the public yet...

 

[weeklycommuter]

The following news story is in The Mirror today. I do not know if London Liverpool Street Station is ever confused with Liverpool Lime Street Station.

Major UK railway station's £1.5bn expansion plans scaled back following backlash

An 'ugly and uninspired' proposal to revamp one of the UK's most historic train stations has been scaled back and redrawn - following thousands of objections.

www.mirror.co.uk

Major UK railway station's £1.5bn expansion scaled back after 'disproportionate' plans slammed
An 'ugly and uninspired' proposal to revamp one of the UK's most historic train stations has been scaled back and redrawn - following thousands of objections.
Ambitious plans to redevelop one of the UK's most popular train station have been sent back to the drawing board.
Network Rail had been previously working Sellar - a property giant known for developing The Shard - on a £1.5 billion scheme to significantly revamp London's Liverpool Street station (not to be confused with Liverpool Lime Street). Proposals submitted last year included a part demolition of the Victorian station, a controversial multi-storey tower cantilevered above the Grade II listed Andaz Hotel, to be used as offices.

 

[Trainbike46]

The following news story is in The Mirror today. I do not know if London Liverpool Street Station is ever confused with Liverpool Lime Street Station.

I have heard of it happening at Norwich, one of the few stations with direct services to both

 

[ian1944]

I have heard of it happening at Norwich, one of the few stations with direct services to both

That would rend to reinforce the unkind things said about Norfolkians in general.

 

[Trainbike46]

That would rend to reinforce the unkind things said about Norfolkians in general.

I mean, only stations with services to both Liverpool Lime street and London Liverpool street are locations where this confusion could occur. Unless I've missed some, that is really just Norwich and Ely.

 

[Meole]

Network Rail submits new Liverpool Street Station plans

An original application was filed in 2023, but new plans were unveiled in November after objections.

www.bbc.co.uk

Fresh plans for Liverpool Street Station submitted​

Revised plans watering down the original proposal as the heritage pressure groups get their way, the old dark train shed will now be retained as well as the over crowded concourse which is well past its sell by date.