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ORR unveils station usage data between April 2022 and March 2023

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deltic

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Can somebody explain Sheffield and Bristol Temple Meads to me? According to the figures (if i have understood them correctly) Sheffield had 7.2 million customers up to March 2022. Bristol Temple Meads had 6.6 million in the same period.
The latest figures show Sheffield on 8.6 million with Bristol Temple Meads on 9.3 million. Can somebody explain how Bristol has added 2.7 million customers over the last 12 months? Not sure i am reading the figures correctly, but Bristol adding nearly 3 million in a year?, or am i being dumb here?
I seem to remember that London St Pancras was always the busiest route out of Sheffield, but according to the latest figures Manchester Picc was the busiest last year with 883.124 customers. Why would there be a significant drop on these figures to London when both Nottingham and Leicester on the same line have added customers to London?
Due to poor road links between Sheffield and Manchester, rail has always had a high market share. While business travel to London has collapsed and Sheffield is not much of a tourist destination so doesn't attract leisure trips from London to the same extent other northern cities do.
 
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The Ham

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As stated countless times, passenger numbers might be back but generally they are travelling on cheaper tickets, so there’s still a gap to plug somehow. Arguably this could be done with extra subsidy, but that’s not how the government sees it.

Actually the split across non season tickets isn't that different from what it was, with actual numbers being comparable to 2018/19.

The big difference is season tickets, which whilst a lot of money in one go are often quite a reasonably cheap way to use the railways if you use then 5 days a week (if you can use them more than that then they become very good value).

However, as I said at the time, actually WFH should enable people to be less reliant on car ownership. The average cost of owning a car (including purchase costs) is £3,500 per year. That's £16 per day if you only use it for work travel, however if you go to the office 3 days a week then that cost increases to £22.70 (allowong for a pro rata on fuel use).

For a single person they may well still be able to justify the extra cost, but for a couple who may both only be going in at the same time one or two days a week, the extra cost becomes quite a lot more for one or two days of benefit. As the weekly cost would be £136 compared to £75 for owning one car for use for 4 days a week, leaving £61 for travel for one or two days of travel (depending on if they wanted to WFH at the same time or tried not to).

The cost difference gets even greater if the WFH rate is higher (for instance going in 2 days a week).

Whilst cost isn't everything, and it's possible to have car ownership costs quite a bit lower than this (which closes the gap) it's likely something which I doubt many have a true handle on the actual costs of their car ownership.
 

70014IronDuke

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I notice across the statistic announcements the comparison with pre-pandemic is quietly being dropped, I agree it's getting less relevant but as the passenger numbers and revenue increases I'm getting the feeling it's more to do with the fact it's generally getting somewhere over 90% and if the increase continues it will get over 100 and justification for cuts will disappear
Unfortunately, on what you might call tertiary lines, it's more likely to be 65% or thereabouts. Take a look at the Far North Line for a good example.
 

Meerkat

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Actually the split across non season tickets isn't that different from what it was, with actual numbers being comparable to 2018/19.

The big difference is season tickets, which whilst a lot of money in one go are often quite a reasonably cheap way to use the railways if you use then 5 days a week (if you can use them more than that then they become very good value).

However, as I said at the time, actually WFH should enable people to be less reliant on car ownership. The average cost of owning a car (including purchase costs) is £3,500 per year. That's £16 per day if you only use it for work travel, however if you go to the office 3 days a week then that cost increases to £22.70 (allowong for a pro rata on fuel use).

For a single person they may well still be able to justify the extra cost, but for a couple who may both only be going in at the same time one or two days a week, the extra cost becomes quite a lot more for one or two days of benefit. As the weekly cost would be £136 compared to £75 for owning one car for use for 4 days a week, leaving £61 for travel for one or two days of travel (depending on if they wanted to WFH at the same time or tried not to).

The cost difference gets even greater if the WFH rate is higher (for instance going in 2 days a week).

Whilst cost isn't everything, and it's possible to have car ownership costs quite a bit lower than this (which closes the gap) it's likely something which I doubt many have a true handle on the actual costs of their car ownership.
If you spend more time at home, have lunch breaks at home, are at home at clocking off rather than ages later……you will have far more use for a car.
 

Killingworth

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Due to poor road links between Sheffield and Manchester, rail has always had a high market share. While business travel to London has collapsed and Sheffield is not much of a tourist destination so doesn't attract leisure trips from London to the same extent other northern cities do.

Sheffirld - Manchester is a journey of under an hour. London takes over 2 hours. Both should take less but that's another story.

As a user of the services between Sheffield and Manchester I can report that the former commuter market between the two cities remains severely depressed. Leisure use has risen substantially. Northern's regular 3 car 195 hourly stopping services only started to a fairly standard clock face timetable from December 2022 and their fares are very reasonable. Now TPE are becoming more reliable commuters are coming back.

Leisure means sport, shopping and air travel to the west. I can't speak for reasons for coming east to Sheffield.
 

Meerkat

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Nor can I believe that over 5 million are doing just Stratford - Liverpool Street; most of these people would surely have been on through trains from elsewhere.
Dunno, lot live round there, and many would have arrived on buses/tube/DLR rather than trains.
How do cross London tickets get adjusted - Stratford is the station for West Ham (United).
 

Horizon22

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Dunno, lot live round there, and many would have arrived on buses/tube/DLR rather than trains.
How do cross London tickets get adjusted - Stratford is the station for West Ham (United).

Yes but many would have arrived on the tube and not needed to get on a train for 7 minutes is my point.

If you’re on the central line, you’d stay on it. Same with a Elizabeth line train or Greater Anglia train; you’ve probably travelled from further afield.

Are almost 15K people daily getting on at Liverpool Street to just Stratford? Or vice versa? I imagine that really it’s interchange, or travelling through and the data has gone funky.

I expect through running of the Elizabeth line will decrease these supposed 5m journeys in the data next year.
 

The Ham

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If you spend more time at home, have lunch breaks at home, are at home at clocking off rather than ages later……you will have far more use for a car.

It depends, there's many factors. Including how often you are in the office, where you live, what's nearby and so on.

If you live somewhere where it's not far to a pub and gym (if that's what you want to do) you could always walk to them (allowing a little more to be consumed at one and a cool down from the other).

If you're saving a lot of time from not traveling to get to/from work some of that could be used to walk/cycle rather than jumping in the car for 2 minutes.

Of course, if you live miles from anywhere you'll still need a car anyway.
 

The Ham

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One reason is that (some) people will move to bigger houses in places tha they find attractive and which are less accessible by public transport.

Many people who live in such places would be living there and travelling to work (probably by car) anyway.
 

DynamicSpirit

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It depends, there's many factors. Including how often you are in the office, where you live, what's nearby and so on.

Indeed. Unfortunately a dominant factor for many people is that, as soon as they have one single journey for which a car would be more convenient, they assume they must have a car. And then since they've already paid for the car, the cost of using it for all the other journeys feels marginal, so it gets used even where the train would have been sensible. So the fact that they are only going to the office 3 days a week instead of 5 or whatever becomes irrelevant :( and the railways then face an uphill struggle for their business (though - to try to drag this post back on topic ;) - luckily unlikely to be the case around Liverpool Street due to the slowness of driving and lack of parking)
 

Meerkat

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Because you will have more free time in close proximity to it, and will be further from shops/food than your office is.
If you get a lunch break then you can pop out in the car to get something/meet someone (Even more reason to get away from your desk if it is your home and no one else is about)
if you have flexible working you will be able to do school runs etc.
 

Krokodil

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Because you will have more free time in close proximity to it, and will be further from shops/food than your office is.
If you get a lunch break then you can pop out in the car to get something/meet someone (Even more reason to get away from your desk if it is your home and no one else is about)
if you have flexible working you will be able to do school runs etc.
Maybe, maybe not. Its equally likely that WFH makes it easier for families to drop from two cars to one, and it's not a given that one's home is further from the shops than one's workplace. Most primary schools are within walking distance of their entire catchment area and the reason that many people cite for driving the kids to school is that they need the car for their subsequent journey to work. If work is at home then you can just walk back home. "Will" is too definite a term, "may" would be better.
 

cle

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There are a lot of folks who seem surprised at Stratford as an origin/destination station (have you seen the developments? Residential? Mall?) - as well as Liverpool Street’s activity. And the Moorgate factor too.

This will only continue as RTO continues, especially the Canary Wharf route (and into City itself) - and as Bond St beds in.

I’m curious as to the Liverpool St / Tottenham Hale share of Stansted journeys. I do like this new metric. A little flawed on shared tube stations (eg Queens Park, I highly doubt more travel to Wembley than Euston but they likely change onto the tube) - but there will always be edge cases and outliers.
 

Kite159

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There are a lot of folks who seem surprised at Stratford as an origin/destination station (have you seen the developments? Residential? Mall?) - as well as Liverpool Street’s activity. And the Moorgate factor too.

This will only continue as RTO continues, especially the Canary Wharf route (and into City itself) - and as Bond St beds in.

I’m curious as to the Liverpool St / Tottenham Hale share of Stansted journeys. I do like this new metric. A little flawed on shared tube stations (eg Queens Park, I highly doubt more travel to Wembley than Euston but they likely change onto the tube) - but there will always be edge cases and outliers.
Stratford is popular for passengers from unbarriered stations in GA land travelling in from said station without a ticket and then touching into the oyster/contactless network to carry on their journey within London. Same on the return.
 
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This may be of some interest to those who are having difficulties opening the full ORR ODM file...
It's all a bit rudimentary, but I've put together a basic system that allows journeys to be listed for a searched station.
www.railwaydata.co.uk/odm
 

Killingworth

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This may be of some interest to those who are having difficulties opening the full ORR ODM file...
It's all a bit rudimentary, but I've put together a basic system that allows journeys to be listed for a searched station.
www.railwaydata.co.uk/odm
Fascinating data and greatly appreciated.

Clearly there are inaccuracies for a variety of reasons but the impression gained from local knowledge is that the data is broadly correct for my local station, Dore & Totley. (I can even recognise one or two of my own journeys to more obscure destinations like Ely and Market Rasen.)

See; https://www.railwaydata.co.uk/odm/gbr/?year=2122&string_out=Dore+and+Totley+[6690]&dest=all&ord=H

Although only 4 miles from Sheffield and about 38 to Manchester almost twice as many are heading for Manchester! Tis true. A local commuter survey in 2019 pre Covid showed 22% to Sheffield and 44% to Manchester. Post Covid a lot of TPE's westbound commuters now WFH.

However 830 going to Kings Cross is wrong. A relatively small number from Sheffield do go that way but those going to London from D & T will be changing at Sheffield for St Pancras (or driving to Chesterfield). Presumably a statistical aberration due to their close proximity.
 

JW4

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This may be of some interest to those who are having difficulties opening the full ORR ODM file...
It's all a bit rudimentary, but I've put together a basic system that allows journeys to be listed for a searched station.
www.railwaydata.co.uk/odm
That’s really useful

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Although it does say that
75,437 journeys were made from London Marylebone to London Marylebone
 
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Kite159

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However 830 going to Kings Cross is wrong. A relatively small number from Sheffield do go that way but those going to London from D & T will be changing at Sheffield for St Pancras (or driving to Chesterfield). Presumably a statistical aberration due to their close proximity.
Or going Dore - Sheffield - Doncaster/Retford - Kings Cross which can sometimes be cheaper than using the EMR to St Pancras (and excluding engineering works closing the Midland Main Line).

As for Dore - Sheffield being a lot lower than to Manchester, maybe shows that a certain percentage of passengers will get a promise to pay from the TVM and board at the front of the train knowing it is unlikely the guard will get round to sell a ticket in the short journey time.
 

telstarbox

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From Dore to Sheffield a lot of people would drive, particularly if they're going to employers along the Don Valley rather to the city centre.
 
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Clearly there are inaccuracies for a variety of reasons but the impression gained from local knowledge is that the data is broadly correct for my local station, Dore & Totley. (I can even recognise one or two of my own journeys to more obscure destinations like Ely and Market Rasen.)

...

However 830 going to Kings Cross is wrong. A relatively small number from Sheffield do go that way but those going to London from D & T will be changing at Sheffield for St Pancras (or driving to Chesterfield). Presumably a statistical aberration due to their close proximity.
The way journeys incorporating grouped stations are calculated (London, Birmingham, Manchester, etc.) is one of my gripes about the dataset. They seem to be calculated as a very rough percentage of overall journeys from the grouped station, and don't appear to take routing logic into account (someone travelling from Manchester to London Stns. is likely to be travelling to Euston and not Victoria). But as you say, these anomalies aside, it seems reasonably accurate, and it's always nice to come across a flow that you're entirely responsible for.

Excellent work - think you have an old station lookup table though - no Okehampton but Oldham Mumps?
Well spotted - thank you! Will look into updating the list.
 

DynamicSpirit

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From Dore to Sheffield a lot of people would drive, particularly if they're going to employers along the Don Valley rather to the city centre.

That makes sense. I'm sure that, if you add together all modes, there would be many times as many Dore-Sheffield-somewhere-vaguely-central journeys as Dore-Manchester journeys. But for Dore-Sheffield there are much more attractive options, and the relatively low rail frequency is much more of a deterrent for short journeys.

An interesting comparison could be what happens once the Manchester-Sheffield rail upgrade is complete and Dore therefore starts to get a more frequent/more reliable service. My guess is that numbers of Dore-Sheffield rail journeys will go up much more dramatically than numbers of Dore-Manchester journeys.
 

The exile

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Although only 4 miles from Sheffield and about 38 to Manchester almost twice as many are heading for Manchester! Tis true. A local commuter survey in 2019 pre Covid showed 22% to Sheffield and 44% to Manchester.
I would imagine most similarly-positioned stations would show a comparable result. Haven’t looked but am prepared to bet that Oldfield Park - Bath (0.75 miles) is dwarfed by Oldfield Park to Bristol (11 miles) - even allowing for the different sizes of the cities.
 

paul1609

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Unfortunately, on what you might call tertiary lines, it's more likely to be 65% or thereabouts. Take a look at the Far North Line for a good example.
Its not just tertiary lines, its also true of many of the Southeasts mainlines, once you are an hour from London passenger figures fall off a cliff. Interestingly services that were largely independant of London Commuting like the Coastway lines have recovered well.
 

The exile

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Unfortunately, on what you might call tertiary lines, it's more likely to be 65% or thereabouts. Take a look at the Far North Line for a good example.
Which is an interesting one. Wouldn’t have thought that office-based commuting would have made up a large proportion of journeys there. Has Inverness lost attraction as a day out shopping destination?
 
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