South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Tomos y Tanc]

They can't come from the City Line because it'd be at the wrong level. The City Line feeds into the present Cardiff Central station, which is of course elevated and passes over the Callaghan Square on a bridge. The shuttle to the bay will run on street level from Callaghan Square, on new platforms that would effectively be the "low level." Trains coming from the City Line and into the main station would have no way of getting to road level to join the tram tracks to the bay.

So it'd be a bit like trying to turn Snow Hill lines services from Birmingham Moor Street onto the line to Wolverhampton or New Street at Smethwick Galton Bridge, if you're familiar with that area.

Correct - further down the line though there will need to be some sort of ramp to enable the bay line to join the SWML / City Line if plans for the Creigiau extention come to pass. IIRC space is being reserved in the Central Quay development for such a posssibility.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The solution used on Metrolink Bury and Altrincham lines (where engineering trains can still operate) involved raising the checkrails on the shared track above running rail level. I assume this is also used for Rotherham and Core Valley Lines. It is compatible with standard railway wheels, and the tram-trains have a wheel that is similar to a tram wheel at rail level but the wheel disc is thicker at the back. This part can contact the raised check rail to prevent the opposite wheel taking the wrong route at a crossing nose. The rail groove in the street sections needs to be bigger than on some other tramways, but the flange is still a lot smaller than for a normal railway wheel.

Thanks @edwin_m that's refreshed my memory with a proper description.

 

[positron]

66536 first loco to Machen, and 153921 first unit to Ebbw Vale on route proving before the first service train.

Seems to be some delays I wonder if there's been issues with the changes or if it's just general day to day issues.

 

[Signal_Box]

Seems to be some delays I wonder if there's been issues with the changes or if it's just general day to day issues.

General day to day, the usual combo of normal delay’s unfortunately.

 

[56xx]

General day to day, the usual combo of normal delay’s unfortunately.

Trying to run the service with only 2 units. It can work with about 57 mins end to end and an hourly frequency. 150 230 did better than 158 826.
Had an extra hours wait in Cardiff as the 1533 was cancelled.

 

[Signal_Box]

As above, aka as usual.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I’m trying to picture this. I assume the third/through rail is to the east/Lloyd George Avenue side?

The Cardiff Planning Portal has the drawings. Specifically the one given below shows two tracks either side of an island, terminal platform. A third track is marked as proposed. This third track and one of the other tracks are 'dashed' and annotated as 'future continuation to Flourish station'.

PRAP_22_00032_MJR-PLAN_SECTIONS-2636339

This reference has been provided before. Similar plans at the same location show the whole route. I haven't checked if there have been any subsequent changes, I only do new stations!

 

[Bob Price]

However Flourish station isn't happening now and there is definitely a track not in the Bay platform. I will be dropping a video tomorrow on my industrial history channel that has some video of it, I will share it to the group.

 

[Last Hurrah]

Correct - further down the line though there will need to be some sort of ramp to enable the bay line to join the SWML / City Line if plans for the Creigiau extention come to pass. IIRC space is being reserved in the Central Quay development for such a posssibility.

If the now closed Cardiff Panel Signal Box (behind platform 8) is demolished, there should be room for a two track exit from the city line, albeit a gantry may need to be moved - how it then traverses to ‘terra firma’ is yet to be told . .

If the TfW staff porta cabins adjoining platform 8 are removed, there might then be room to add an additional West facing bay platform

 

[positron]

However Flourish station isn't happening now and there is definitely a track not in the Bay platform. I will be dropping a video tomorrow on my industrial history channel that has some video of it, I will share it to the group.

The island platforms new edge isn't finished yet (no tactile on the eastern edge), the track in situ is the second track.

 

[5021]

Not sure how long this has been in operation as I have not been to Cardiff for about 6 months, but platform 2 seems to have become bi-directional now. At least one Nottingham arrived and departed from it yesterday. Presumably this will help some of the congestion problems.

ALL 10 lines through Cardiff Central have been bi-directional since the resignalling in 2017. However the "Up Barry Relief" which runs through Platform 4 is the only one with access to both the Main and the Valley lines i.e. the northernmost six only access the Main lines and southernmost three the Valleys.

 

[takno]

ALL 10 lines through Cardiff Central have been bi-directional since the resignalling in 2017. However the "Up Barry Relief" which runs through Platform 4 is the only one with access to both the Main and the Valley lines i.e. the northernmost six only access the Main lines and southernmost three the Valleys.

Platform 4 is the only Valley Lines platform with access to the Main lines. The main line platforms all have access to the valley lines

 

[5021]

Platform 4 is the only Valley Lines platform with access to the Main lines. The main line platforms all have access to the valley lines

Not so and never was before the resignalling either - only Platforms 4 to 8 can access the Valley lines. See attached track plans from an authoritative source

 

[Bob Price]

The island platforms new edge isn't finished yet (no tactile on the eastern edge), the track in situ is the second track.

I may have got the wrong end of the stick when I visited recently then. It looked like a third track had been laid. This is a video from my industrial channel as a follow up to some previous ones but it features the work at the station filmed through gaps in the fence.

 

[takno]

Not so and never was before the resignalling either - only Platforms 4 to 8 can access the Valley lines. See attached track plans from an authoritative source

Ahh, I'm thinking of the west end of the station. Agreed on the lines to Queen Street

 

[positron]

I may have got the wrong end of the stick when I visited recently then. It looked like a third track had been laid. This is a video from my industrial channel as a follow up to some previous ones but it features the work at the station filmed through gaps in the fence.

Nice video! I've never actually realised that oval was the old basin cool to see the old locks still showing through.

Wrt to the station it is a bit confusing and up until recently I thought the same as you cause it seems too far over, but the track there is the second one and the island platform in the middle is going to be even wider all the way out to reach it.

Part of the reason it's so far over is because it needs to be far enough east to miss the coffee shop which has residual planning to be turned into a block of some sort.

 

[Bob Price]

Thanks. If you walk to the top of Lloyd George Avenue, set back from the road is one of the pistons from the lock gates. It's huge.

It does seem odd to make the platform that wide even with the coffee shop I would have thought you would have got a six car tram in there. It is going to be interesting to see the final configuration.

 

[positron]

Thanks. If you walk to the top of Lloyd George Avenue, set back from the road is one of the pistons from the lock gates. It's huge.

It does seem odd to make the platform that wide even with the coffee shop I would have thought you would have got a six car tram in there. It is going to be interesting to see the final configuration.

I think part of it is cause they're going to have a staff building on the platform too so they need room for that as well as standing room.

It'll definitely be interesting to see the real thing and compare to renders.

 

[Avowedsevern]

I think part of it is cause they're going to have a staff building on the platform too so they need room for that as well as standing room.

It'll definitely be interesting to see the real thing and compare to renders.

Can you post/link to said renders please?

 

[positron]

They can be found in the planning application which is unfortunately not linkable and also in varying news articles if you search Cardiff bay station works

 

[Baxenden Bank]

go to:

Simple Search

www.cardiffidoxcloud.wales

type:
PRAP_22_00032

in the search box after:
Enter a keyword, reference number, postcode or single line of an address.

 

[5021]

go to:

Simple Search

www.cardiffidoxcloud.wales

type:
PRAP_22_00032

in the search box after:
Enter a keyword, reference number, postcode or single line of an address.

Well regarding Quakers Yard - in Journey check they say 28th November for restart, but in planned improvement works December 8th! Cannot even get it correct on their own site! I believe December 8th before November 28th mind you!

Do we have a similar situation on the Treherbert line? The "yellow peril" signalling notice states that Ynyswen station is not included in next week's (13/12/23) commissioning and is to remain closed UFN pending completion of an Up platform and a footbridge.

 

[positron]

Do we have a similar situation on the Treherbert line? The "yellow peril" signalling notice states that Ynyswen station is not included in next week's (13/12/23) commissioning and is to remain closed UFN pending completion of an Up platform and a footbridge.

At least they've got till February to get it finished.

I read electrification was being activated from 29th December, is 13th just for signalling?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Why has Aberdare gone down to hourly off peak??
This has left Pontypridd - Cardiff with 3tph down from 6tph during certain times of the day. I now face half hour waits at Cathays and Llandaf to get into Cardiff, which used to have a consistent every ten minutes operation and, had TfW got their act together and met deadlines, was supposed to be even more frequent than that by now.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Why has Aberdare gone down to hourly off peak??

Haven't the valley lines services always been hourly in the evening? Certainly the Treherbert services (when they were running) were hourly after about 7pm for as long as I can remember. It is actually one of the things that I hope is improved frequency uplift come in. Or are you talking about off peak outside of evenings (or has Aberdare been treated better than Treherbert in terms of those evening services in the past)?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Haven't the valley lines services always been hourly in the evening? Certainly the Treherbert services (when they were running) were hourly after about 7pm for as long as I can remember. It is actually one of the things that I hope is improved frequency uplift come in. Or are you talking about off peak outside of evenings?

I am talking about off peak outside of evenings.
Like how there was a 1331 ex Merthyr from Cathays to Cardiff, and a 1401 ex Merthyr, but the 1346 ex Aberdare was missing, among other Aberdares, and this has gone on all week.

Here is a snapshot from RTT showing random gap in Aberdare service - bearing in mind TfW have already disgracefully axed the full Treherbert service for the closure rather than maintaining it on the open section Pontypridd to Cardiff as they used to.

 

[AdamWW]

Why has Aberdare gone down to hourly off peak??
This has left Pontypridd - Cardiff with 3tph down from 6tph during certain times of the day. I now face half hour waits at Cathays and Llandaf to get into Cardiff, which used to have a consistent every ten minutes operation and, had TfW got their act together and met deadlines, was supposed to be even more frequent than that by now.

Lack of functioning trains, presumably.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Lack of functioning trains, presumably.

I sympathise with that, but a notice to inform us wouldn’t go a-miss. And take down the signs that say “All services will use brand new trains by 2023” !

 

[Randomer]

It does seem odd to make the platform that wide even with the coffee shop I would have thought you would have got a six car tram in there. It is going to be interesting to see the final configuration.

Possibly someone is thinking about sudden surges in passenger numbers e.g. when a show finishes at the Millennium Centre or even further ahead with the arena development looking like it will be completed before any extension towards Pierhead Street.

 

[AdamWW]

I sympathise with that, but a notice to inform us wouldn’t go a-miss. And take down the signs that say “All services will use brand new trains by 2023” !

I agree completely. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the TfW way.