South Wales 'Metro' updates

[yorkie]

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Thank you.

 

[John R]

Abergavenny has a population of around 12,000 compared with over 50k in Merthyr, 40k in Aberdare, and over 200k along the Rhondda valley. So no way is 4 tph a necessity beyond Pontypool and indeed would be a complete over provision for those additional 12 miles.

 

[positron]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-wales-metro-future.258538/ started a new thread to continue this (and other speculative ) discussion

 

[Signal_Box]

Park Junction SB officially this evening.

The new addition to Ebbw Junction workstation opens (planned) 0400 Saturday morning.

 

[John R]

Park Junction SB officially this evening.

The new addition to Ebbw Junction workstation opens (planned) 0400 Saturday morning.

And acknowledged by the signallers of the main line as shown here.

 

[takno]

Park Junction SB officially this evening.

The new addition to Ebbw Junction workstation opens (planned) 0400 Saturday morning.

Is it the Park Junction signals coming over to Ebbw, or is it more substantial? I'm doing pretty well at keeping south Wales up to date on Traksy just now, but I wasn't aware of this one.

 

[Phil from Mon]

Not sure how much capacity can be provided between Newport and Cardiff, but at 4 tracks it should be possible to fit more in. Allowing multiple trains to serve the Cardiff platforms would really help, especially putting crossings in mid 2 and 3 so that the A and B halves operate fully independently would be nice.

Not sure how long this has been in operation as I have not been to Cardiff for about 6 months, but platform 2 seems to have become bi-directional now. At least one Nottingham arrived and departed from it yesterday. Presumably this will help some of the congestion problems.

 

[Signal_Box]

Is it the Park Junction signals coming over to Ebbw, or is it more substantial? I'm doing pretty well at keeping south Wales up to date on Traksy just now, but I wasn't aware of this one.

The whole line from Ebbw Junction (Newport) to Ebbw Vale, and Machen.

 

[takno]

The whole line from Ebbw Junction (Newport) to Ebbw Vale, and Machen.

Thanks, I'll try to track down more details

 

[duffield]

Yes, claiming Caerleon is a location of "international importance" is rather a vain "delusion of grandeur" there. I've barely even heard of it and I live fifteen miles away.

International? Maybe not. But they took us there on a 100 mile school day trip from Reading, back in the early 1970's, as part of our history lessons. So I'd guess it may be of "National Importance" for the UK. The other similar location we visited was Verulamium Roman Theatre in St. Albans. I've still got my black and white photos of both locations.

Anyhow, well offtopic so I'll not be surprised if this is removed.

 

[Signal_Box]

Thanks, I'll try to track down more details

What do you want to know ?

 

[positron]

https://x.com/SW_MetroUpdates/status/1730631230318661759?s=20

Incredible progress is being made on converting the single track, Cardiff Bay shuttle route into a high capacity relief terminus for TAM valleys' Metro services.

Including a new station at Butetown (Maria St), and provisions for tramway extensions on both sides of the line.

The above tweet shows a drone footage of the various works that have been taking place. Lots of track work by the looks of things. It'll be interesting to see how all the bits of track connect up.

 

[CapitalStar378]

https://x.com/SW_MetroUpdates/status/1730631230318661759?s=20

The above tweet shows a drone footage of the various works that have been taking place. Lots of track work by the looks of things. It'll be interesting to see how all the bits of track connect up.

That's the best part of a year's work, not really lightning speed is it? It does finally look like it's starting to come together though.

Has any progress been made on the plans for the Central to Bay line doe anyone know?

 

[Peter Sarf]

https://x.com/SW_MetroUpdates/status/1730631230318661759?s=20

The above tweet shows a drone footage of the various works that have been taking place. Lots of track work by the looks of things. It'll be interesting to see how all the bits of track connect up.

So in that tweet the bay works are being described as "converting the single track, Cardiff Bay shuttle route into a high capacity relief terminus for TAM valleys' Metro services". That's a new one on me.

Are TfW quietly forgetting about the tram-train route beyond Cardiff Bay and the link to Cardiff Central ?.

Fingers crossed just for the short term.

 

[Randomer]

So in that tweet the bay works are being described as "converting the single track, Cardiff Bay shuttle route into a high capacity relief terminus for TAM valleys' Metro services". That's a new one on me.

Are TfW quietly forgetting about the tram-train route beyond Cardiff Bay and the link to Cardiff Central ?.

It isn't an official TfW account so I wouldn't read to much into the accompanying text.

Video does look like some progress is happening though. I'm curious what form of passive provision has been made for the Central to Bay tram line joining, couldn't spot anything in the video.

 

[takno]

What do you want to know ?

Signalling diagrams, driver training docs and SOP tables are the most useful things

 

[MikePJ]

I'm curious what form of passive provision has been made for the Central to Bay tram line joining

I wouldn’t be surprised if no obvious passive provision is made at this stage - it may simply be ensuring that cabling and lineside structures aren’t put anywhere that’ll cause trouble later.

 

[Bob Price]

It isn't an official TfW account so I wouldn't read to much into the accompanying text.

Video does look like some progress is happening though. I'm curious what form of passive provision has been made for the Central to Bay tram line joining, couldn't spot anything in the video.

I was down there last week. There is a third line that has the ability to continue on and out into the Bay. The two old Bute St platforms are being constructed as a terminus and the third line will provisionally allow transit onwards.

 

[CardiffKid]

I was down there last week. There is a third line that has the ability to continue on and out into the Bay. The two old Bute St platforms are being constructed as a terminus and the third line will provisionally allow transit onwards.

I’m trying to picture this. I assume the third/through rail is to the east/Lloyd George Avenue side?

 

[Signal_Box]

Signalling diagrams, driver training docs and SOP tables are the most useful things

I’m not sure I’m able to release that kind of info into the public domain to be honest.

Signalling diagrams will probably be on the open source sites from 0400 tomorrow (Monday).

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

So in that tweet the bay works are being described as "converting the single track, Cardiff Bay shuttle route into a high capacity relief terminus for TAM valleys' Metro services". That's a new one on me.

Are TfW quietly forgetting about the tram-train route beyond Cardiff Bay and the link to Cardiff Central ?.

Fingers crossed just for the short term.

IIRC half the services coming down from Ponty were planned to terminate in the bay rather than central. I assume that initially the Bay > Central link will be some sort of shuttle.

 

[CardiffKid]

IIRC half the services coming down from Ponty were planned to terminate in the bay rather than central. I assume that initially the Bay > Central link will be some sort of shuttle.

That’s what I assume too.

As part of the Central > Bay link the line in the Bay will be extended to Pierhead Street. I’d imagine that trains from Ponty will run and terminate in the Current Bay station and ones from Central will run to Pierhead Street (and in years to come further out east).

I can’t see a service from Ponty ever running properly on the streets of Cardiff, because as others have said it’ll cause havoc with the timetables.

I think I also read that the 389s will need a different wheel profile for the on street sections so my guess is that there will be two/four/six etc dedicated units for the Central > Pierhead Street run. There’ll also be a fairly busy crossover junction of some sorts on the bay branch line with six units from the valleys and six going to the valleys plus as a guess four (or more) from Central per hour.

 

[CapitalStar378]

IIRC half the services coming down from Ponty were planned to terminate in the bay rather than central. I assume that initially the Bay > Central link will be some sort of shuttle.

Does the initial extension from Central include Cardiff Bay to Pierhead Street? I thought it was as a transport hub for the arena, but I'm not sure due to the wall of silence that surrounds the whole thing.

 

[Western 52]

That’s what I assume too.

As part of the Central > Bay link the line in the Bay will be extended to Pierhead Street. I’d imagine that trains from Ponty will run and terminate in the Current Bay station and ones from Central will run to Pierhead Street (and in years to come further out east).

I can’t see a service from Ponty ever running properly on the streets of Cardiff, because as others have said it’ll cause havoc with the timetables.

I think I also read that the 389s will need a different wheel profile for the on street sections so my guess is that there will be two/four/six etc dedicated units for the Central > Pierhead Street run. There’ll also be a fairly busy crossover junction of some sorts on the bay branch line with six units from the valleys and six going to the valleys plus as a guess four (or more) from Central per hour.

If the 398s need a different wheel profile for on street running, can they still run to/from the depot at Taff's Well? I think the sets used to Rotherham on the Sheffield system have different wheel profiles- how does it work there?

 

[positron]

I would move the speculative discussion to https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-wales-metro-future.258538/#post-6522101

I was down there last week. There is a third line that has the ability to continue on and out into the Bay. The two old Bute St platforms are being constructed as a terminus and the third line will provisionally allow transit onwards.

There's only two lines in the bay ATM the third line is a future thing it's not been added yet?

There's some photos of Dinas Rhondda about its further behind than I would expect by now given they need to start driver training soon?

 

[Peter Sarf]

If the 398s need a different wheel profile for on street running, can they still run to/from the depot at Taff's Well? I think the sets used to Rotherham on the Sheffield system have different wheel profiles- how does it work there?

I think the 398s do have a different wheel profile. It is not fully tram but still because the flanges are not so deep below the rail top there have to be extra guide rails on heavy rail point work and these mean normal heavy rail trains cannot run on the routes unless modified. I suppose that means the 756s which will share Queen Street will be so modified.

EDIT
I think its explained up thread somewhere ?.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the 398s do have a different wheel profile. It is not fully tram but still because the flanges are not so deep below the rail top there have to be extra guide rails on heavy rail point work and these mean normal heavy rail trains cannot run on the routes unless modified. I suppose that means the 756s which will share Queen Street will be so modified.

EDIT
I think its explained up thread somewhere ?.

The solution used on Metrolink Bury and Altrincham lines (where engineering trains can still operate) involved raising the checkrails on the shared track above running rail level. I assume this is also used for Rotherham and Core Valley Lines. It is compatible with standard railway wheels, and the tram-trains have a wheel that is similar to a tram wheel at rail level but the wheel disc is thicker at the back. This part can contact the raised check rail to prevent the opposite wheel taking the wrong route at a crossing nose. The rail groove in the street sections needs to be bigger than on some other tramways, but the flange is still a lot smaller than for a normal railway wheel.

 

[Krokodil]

I assume that initially the Bay > Central link will be some sort of shuttle.

Wouldn't some trains come via the City Line?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Wouldn't some trains come via the City Line?

They can't come from the City Line because it'd be at the wrong level. The City Line feeds into the present Cardiff Central station, which is of course elevated and passes over the Callaghan Square on a bridge. The shuttle to the bay will run on street level from Callaghan Square, on new platforms that would effectively be the "low level." Trains coming from the City Line and into the main station would have no way of getting to road level to join the tram tracks to the bay.

So it'd be a bit like trying to turn Snow Hill lines services from Birmingham Moor Street onto the line to Wolverhampton or New Street at Smethwick Galton Bridge, if you're familiar with that area.

 

[Signal_Box]

66536 first loco to Machen, and 153921 first unit to Ebbw Vale on route proving before the first service train.