Northern "new" Trains.

[tbtc]

When i saw that quote from DFT, it made me wonder. Are the 650 new coaches just brand new coaches? I am now wondering if a lot of this is coaches that have been cascaded around, and so are 'new' to another operator.
If this is the case, then 650 is a play on figures, and spin. If it isnt the case, then calling these part of the 650 is a lie.
Either that or Mr Hammond really is not checking his facts.

Well, the "additional 650 coaches on the UK’s rail network by 2014" might just be the 85x 172 coaches at LM and LO which release 85x 150 coaches which release... (keep shuffling stock around the country and, hey presto, you have 650 "additional" coaches)

 

[tom1649]

They are all in use with Scotrail arent they? Just waiting for enough 380s to appear so they can head down south.

Still in use between Edinburgh and North Berwick at the moment. They are due to move (or be taken out of service) next month I believe. Not quite sure how it'll take until December for them to enter service with Northern.

 

[cj_1985]

Still in use between Edinburgh and North Berwick at the moment. They are due to move (or be taken out of service) next month I believe. Not quite sure how it'll take until December for them to enter service with Northern.

they are not ALL being taken out of service by scotrail... iirc 3 are remaining with scotrail for a few months to cover for these german things untill enough have been delivered, accepted and have enough drivers trained on them...

december will probably be when they all enter service with northern... as oposed to one or two here and there before hand.

 

[starrymarkb]

If they are so similar, then yes that's a good thing, what's the difference between a 321 and a 322?

Mechanically identical but originally had a lower density internal layout with luggage racks for services to Stansted Airport. Class number was mostly for Diagramming (ie don't put one on the Southend line) IIRC Standard used the same seats as First in a standard 321

They were replaced by refurbished 317s shortly after privatisation and have been working for First North Western, WAGN and Scotrail in the mean time. Scotrail have refitted them to be the same internally as a 321 (done a couple of years ago)

 

[tom1649]

they are not ALL being taken out of service by scotrail... iirc 3 are remaining with scotrail for a few months to cover for these german things untill enough have been delivered, accepted and have enough drivers trained on them...

december will probably be when they all enter service with northern... as oposed to one or two here and there before hand.

Thanks for explaining this, I'd looked at various usual sources of information and no one else seemed to know what was going on. It seems sensible to keep running the North Berwick service with 322s until other EMUs are available. A few years ago there was talk of the line going over to long term DMU operation, a bit like the situation at Hazel Grove but a longer route!

 

[DarloRich]

Still in use between Edinburgh and North Berwick at the moment. They are due to move (or be taken out of service) next month I believe. Not quite sure how it'll take until December for them to enter service with Northern.

They will get a refurb/refresh and a relivery i should think. Perhaps some interior mods/reliability mods. There will then be the normal training and work up periods i should think.

The fleet will no doubt go for refurb one at a time (wonder who do it - Wabtec?) rather than all at once so the time will be eaten up

I guess they "go live" at the start of the Decemebr timetable

Any one want to bet that other than the LM units there are few, if any BRAND NEW vehicles procured?

 

[jon0844]

Given how many people rave about the Mk3 and Mk4 trains, I think the Mk3 based trains (317, 319, 321 etc) are very good, solid, dependable trains that can be made to look brand new with a little effort.

Okay, so they won't be as swish as the 379 I went on yesterday, but they'll get you from A to B in relative comfort (the high density seating on a 321 can be a little much for very long journeys).

 

[Class172]

Given how many people rave about the Mk3 and Mk4 trains, I think the Mk3 based trains (317, 319, 321 etc) are very good, solid, dependable trains that can be made to look brand new with a little effort.

Okay, so they won't be as swish as the 379 I went on yesterday, but they'll get you from A to B in relative comfort (the high density seating on a 321 can be a little much for very long journeys).

442s are the best of them all. There should have been an AC and a diesel version

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Mechanically identical but originally had a lower density internal layout with luggage racks for services to Stansted Airport. Class number was mostly for Diagramming (ie don't put one on the Southend line) IIRC Standard used the same seats as First in a standard 321

They were replaced by refurbished 317s shortly after privatisation and have been working for First North Western, WAGN and Scotrail in the mean time. Scotrail have refitted them to be the same internally as a 321 (done a couple of years ago)

Thank~You.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks for explaining this, I'd looked at various usual sources of information and no one else seemed to know what was going on. It seems sensible to keep running the North Berwick service with 322s until other EMUs are available. A few years ago there was talk of the line going over to long term DMU operation, a bit like the situation at Hazel Grove but a longer route!

Or Brumm to Preston.

 

[sprinterguy]

442s are the best of them all. There should have been an AC and a diesel version

If we have to be stuck with underfloor engined DMUs on Crosscountry, it's a shame in a way that BR didn't get round to XC fleet replacement in the early nineties with a fleet of five and seven carriage class 442 style DEMUs. Class 244 I suppose. I don't think you'd be able to push them much above 110mph beause of the flat fronts, but they would have been considerably more pleasant to travel on than Voyagers.

 

[Class172]

If we have to be stuck with underfloor engined DMUs on Crosscountry, it's a shame in a way that BR didn't get round to XC fleet replacement in the early nineties with a fleet of five and seven carriage class 442 style DEMUs. Class 244 I suppose. I don't think you'd be able to push them much above 110mph beause of the flat fronts, but they would have been considerably more pleasant to travel on than Voyagers.

Even better if they had buffet, lounge and compartment areas like the piggies