Oyster route around London Sat 23 April

[paul@skegby.org.]

I have a spare few hours in London tomorrow, Sat 23 April, I have work out a route below, which will allow me to travel over a couple of routes never done before & use new London overground units.

A few question that I need help on.

1) I have an Oyster Pay as you Go, Can I use it on all routes shown ?
2) Will I have to touch in & out by exiting all station except Clapham Junction which has an on platform reader ?


12:00 London King’s Cross St Pancras
12:15 London Euston

12:24 London Euston London Midland Trains
12:40 Watford Junction

12:52 Watford Junction Southern Trains
13:33 Clapham Junction

13:58 Clapham junction South West Trains
14:06 Richmond

14:11 Richmond London Overground
14:37 West Hampstead

15:03 West Hampstead First Capital Connect
15:11 London St Pancras


.

 

[Mike395]

You would only need to touch out if you intended to leave a station or were approaching the time limit for continuous travel on Oyster. For such a journey I'd probably recommend buying a Z1-6 Day Travelcard, as it means you dont need to worry about touching in/out at all (and when doing a lot of travelling on different services, it's easy to forget to touch in or out, and then be hit with a maximum cash fare)

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

Does a Z1-6 cover Watford ?

 

[Mike395]

No it doesnt, well spotted

You'd either have to use Oyster just for that journey (London - Watford), or get a Boundary Zone 6 - Watford Junction return at £3.60

 

[MikeWh]

No it doesnt, well spotted

You'd either have to use Oyster just for that journey (London - Watford), or get a Boundary Zone 6 - Watford Junction return at £3.60

I'd second that. Oyster PAYG is NOT suited to such intensive roving around. As you are not starting at Watford Junction*, a combination of an all zones (1-6) travelcard and BZ6 - Watford Junction return is the best way of doing it. As both the travelcard and return tickets are zonal there is no requirement for the train to stop where the tickets change over.

*If you were, a Watford Junction to Zones 1-6 travelcard would be the one ticket you required.

 

[Fred26]

I'd second that. Oyster PAYG is NOT suited to such intensive roving around. As you are not starting at Watford Junction*, a combination of an all zones (1-6) travelcard and BZ6 - Watford Junction return is the best way of doing it. As both the travelcard and return tickets are zonal there is no requirement for the train to stop where the tickets change over.

*If you were, a Watford Junction to Zones 1-6 travelcard would be the one ticket you required.

Depending on whether he's already got a ticket (other than the Oyster) and where he's travelling from, surely he could ask at a ticket office for, 'an all-zones travelcard from Watford Junction, please.'

 

[Mike395]

Depending on whether he's already got a ticket (other than the Oyster) and where he's travelling from, surely he could ask at a ticket office for, 'an all-zones travelcard from Watford Junction, please.'

He couldnt sadly - the barriers would probably eat the ticket on arrival at Watford Junction as its effectively a Z1-6 travelcard + a return Watford - London

 

[Fred26]

He couldnt sadly - the barriers would probably eat the ticket on arrival at Watford Junction as its effectively a Z1-6 travelcard + a return Watford - London

Good point.

 

[MikeWh]

Depending on whether he's already got a ticket (other than the Oyster) and where he's travelling from, surely he could ask at a ticket office for, 'an all-zones travelcard from Watford Junction, please.'

He couldnt sadly - the barriers would probably eat the ticket on arrival at Watford Junction as its effectively a Z1-6 travelcard + a return Watford - London

Good point.

Indeed, the validity between Watford Junction and Hatch End would be complete on arrival at Watford Junction, but the barriers should not swallow the ticket. They might do, but that is wrong, because the travelcard part is still valid until 0430 the next day and I believe that there are some buses in Watford that accept travelcards.

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

If I use Oyster can I do the following,

Euston to Watford – Exit station £4.10*

Watford to Clapham – Exit station £2.50*

Clapham to West Hampstead via Richmond – Exit station £1.30*

West Hampstead to St Pancras – Exit station £1.90

*Not via Zone 1

Total Price £9.80



A paper Travel Card Z1-9 + Watford is £14.50
So oyster works cheaper, or am I missing something.

Is each trip valid with Oyster?

 

[island]

Oyster is valid, but you run the risk of the system arbitrarily combining several of your journeys at which point you end up going over the maximum journey time, and get hit for one or more maximum cash fares.

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

Oyster is valid, but you run the risk of the system arbitrarily combining several of your journeys at which point you end up going over the maximum journey time, and get hit for one or more maximum cash fares.

Can that happen even after "Touching Out" ?

 

[Mike395]

Yes, if you touch in again within a predetermined amount of time

 

[island]

Yes, if you touch in again within a predetermined amount of time

At a predetemined subset of stations!

 

[Mike395]

At a predetemined subset of stations!

Indeed, within a predetermined list hidden somewhere in cyberspace (most likely is also on MikeWh's site, as it's usually the fountain of all Oyster related knowledge :P )

 

[bb21]

Oyster is valid, but you run the risk of the system arbitrarily combining several of your journeys at which point you end up going over the maximum journey time, and get hit for one or more maximum cash fares.

Yes and therefore I recommend, if possible, at Watford Junction, jumping on a bus, either 242 or 158 would do I believe as they are both run under TfL contracts. If you touch your Oyster on the bus then that would clear any existing OSI flag, preventing the system producing one massive journey without intending for it to do so. You don't actually have to ride on the bus, just jump straight off and if the driver asks, just tell him that you're clearing your OSI.

I do this all the time myself and it works well.

 

[causton]

You don't actually have to ride on the bus, just jump straight off and if the driver asks, just tell him that you're clearing your OSI.

I do this all the time myself and it works well.

I had to do it once for a similar reason and didn't want to seem weird so I just touched in and then walked up to the middle doors and out them

Will topping-up an Oyster card work in the middle of a journey? If I were to touch out at the start of an OSI, top up my card, and then touch back in at the end of an OSI, would that invalidate the OSI? Even if not touched out (if there was a ticket machine behind a gateline for example) - would topping up whilst in a journey have any adverse effect?

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

At West Hampstead I have to exit & change station to Thameslink, sure oyster can't combine those two ?

 

[Mike395]

Yup it can, West Hampstead Thameslink to West Hampstead NLL is a valid OSI (out of station interchange)

 

[John @ home]

a spare few hours in London tomorrow, Sat 23 April, ..

12:00 London King’s Cross St Pancras
12:15 London Euston

12:24 London Euston London Midland Trains
12:40 Watford Junction

12:52 Watford Junction Southern Trains
13:33 Clapham Junction

13:58 Clapham junction South West Trains
14:06 Richmond

14:11 Richmond London Overground
14:37 West Hampstead

15:03 West Hampstead First Capital Connect
15:11 London St Pancras

Oyster PAYG is NOT suited to such intensive roving around.

It's not immediately obvious to me that Oyster PAYG is not suitable for a pre-planned journey such as this.

One or two caveats. First, it has been reported here recently that, within the Travelcard Zones, you can't be off-route using Oyster PAYG only, and my suggestion depends on that being the case. I am no Oyster expert. MikeWh is.

Second, Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs) have not yet been abolished. I would not dream of doing what's suggested below before 22 May using any Oyster card on which a Travelcard is loaded as well as PAYG.

Subject to that, I would be inclined to try:

12:00 King’s Cross St Pancras Tube TOUCH IN
12:15 Euston Tube TOUCH OUT Zone 1 Tube Charge £1.90 (or walk - 10 mins. £0.00)

12:20 Euston Rail TOUCH IN
12:24 Euston Rail depart
12:40 Watford Junction arrive
12:52 Watford Junction depart
13:33 Clapham Junction TOUCH OUT - 73 mins. Zones 1+2 Rail only Off-Peak Charge £1.70
Saturday maximum journey time Zones 1+2 = 110 mins.
Clapham Jn is NOT an OSI.

13:50 Clapham Junction TOUCH IN
13:58 Clapham junction depart
14:06 Richmond arrive
14:11 Richmond depart
14:37 West Hampstead TOUCH OUT - OSI.
15:03 West Hampstead ThameslinkTOUCH IN - OSI.
Journey continues.
15:11 London St Pancras TOUCH OUT - 81 mins. Zones 1+2 Rail only Off-Peak Charge £1.70
Saturday maximum journey time Zones 1+2 = 110 mins.

Total charge £5.30 (or £3.40 if you walk Kings X - Euston).

Can anybody see a problem with this?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I recommend, if possible, at Watford Junction, jumping on a bus, either 242 or 158 would do I believe as they are both run under TfL contracts. If you touch your Oyster on the bus then that would clear any existing OSI flag, preventing the system producing one massive journey without intending for it to do so.

I don't think this is necessary. I can't see any need to touch in or out at Watford Jn at all. Just go from the arrival platform to the departure one.

In my suggestion above the Euston touch-in at 12:20 remains valid until 14:10 (110 mins. later) or until cancelled at Clapham Jn around 13:35.

 

[MikeWh]

It's not immediately obvious to me that Oyster PAYG is not suitable for a pre-planned journey such as this.

One or two caveats. First, it has been reported here recently that you can't be off-route using Oyster PAYG only, and my suggestion depends on that being the case. I am no Oyster expert. MikeWh is.

Second, Oyster Extension Permits (OEPs) have not yet been abolished. I would not dream of doing what's suggested below before 22 May using any Oyster card on which a Travelcard is loaded as well as PAYG.

Subject to that, I would be inclined to try:

12:00 King’s Cross St Pancras Tube TOUCH IN
12:15 Euston Tube TOUCH OUT Zone 1 Tube Charge £1.90 (or walk - 10 mins. £0.00)

12:20 Euston Rail TOUCH IN
12:24 Euston Rail depart
12:40 Watford Junction arrive
12:52 Watford Junction depart
13:33 Clapham Junction TOUCH OUT - 73 mins. Zones 1+2 Rail only Off-Peak Charge £1.70
Saturday maximum journey time Zones 1+2 = 110 mins.
Clapham Jn is NOT an OSI.

13:50 Clapham Junction TOUCH IN
13:58 Clapham junction depart
14:06 Richmond arrive
14:11 Richmond depart
14:37 West Hampstead TOUCH OUT - OSI.
15:03 West Hampstead ThameslinkTOUCH IN - OSI.
Journey continues.
15:11 London St Pancras TOUCH OUT - 81 mins. Zones 1+2 Rail only Off-Peak Charge £1.70
Saturday maximum journey time Zones 1+2 = 110 mins.

Total charge £5.30 (or £3.40 if you walk Kings X - Euston).

Can anybody see a problem with this?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I don't think this is necessary. I can't see any need to touch in or out at Watford Jn at all. Just go from the arrival platform to the departure one.

In my suggestion above the Euston touch-in at 12:20 remains valid until 14:10 (110 mins. later) or until cancelled at Clapham Jn around 13:35.

There is no recognised direct journey from Euston NR to Clapham Junction NR. That would probably result in two unresolved entry charges. Sorry.

 

[swt_passenger]

12:00 King’s Cross St Pancras Tube TOUCH IN
12:15 Euston Tube TOUCH OUT Zone 1 Tube Charge £1.90 (or walk - 10 mins. £0.00)

12:20 Euston Rail TOUCH IN

40 min OSI here surely between Euston LU & Euston NR?

 

[MikeWh]

Yes and therefore I recommend, if possible, at Watford Junction, jumping on a bus, either 242 or 158 would do I believe as they are both run under TfL contracts. If you touch your Oyster on the bus then that would clear any existing OSI flag, preventing the system producing one massive journey without intending for it to do so. You don't actually have to ride on the bus, just jump straight off and if the driver asks, just tell him that you're clearing your OSI.

I do this all the time myself and it works well.

Can someone confirm whether there are gates at Watford Junction? If there are then a touch out via a gate should close the journey. If there are only validators then I agree that strange things will happen due to the continuation exit flag being set there. If the gates are locked open then a touch on a gate locked in the exit position should still do the trick.

 

[island]

There is no recognised direct journey from Euston NR to Clapham Junction NR. That would probably result in two unresolved entry charges. Sorry.

And you would have some explaining to do for travelling the "wrong direction" if caught somewhere between Watford Junction and the northern edge of zone 3 (at least) with an entry token from Euston.

 

[MikeWh]

And you would have some explaining to do for travelling the "wrong direction" if caught somewhere between Watford Junction and the northern edge of zone 3 (at least) with an entry token from Euston.

I'm not convinced that they would look to see where you boarded. A far as I know they are simply looking for an open journey with a charge deducted (although quite what happens when OEPs go is anyone's guess).

 

[John @ home]

Can someone confirm whether there are gates at Watford Junction?

Yes, there are gates at Watford Jn. But does the OP have to touch in/out there at all if not leaving the station?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is no recognised direct journey from Euston NR to Clapham Junction NR. That would probably result in two unresolved entry charges. Sorry.

Oops. I was misled by the NFM 08 CD which gives a EUS-CLJ Oyster off-peak single (POP) of £1.70. But of course that's not a real fare from Euston, it's actually from London Terminals and not permitted from Euston. Sorry I missed that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

40 min OSI here surely between Euston LU & Euston NR?

Agreed. I'll take that into account in a revised suggestion.

 

[MikeWh]

Yes, there are gates at Watford Jn. But does the OP have to touch in/out there at all if not leaving the station?

Sorry, I was answering bb21's tangent rather than the specific case on this thread.

 

[jon0844]

I had to do it once for a similar reason and didn't want to seem weird so I just touched in and then walked up to the middle doors and out them

Because that would look perfectly normal.

 

[John @ home]

My revised suggestion is:

12:00 King’s Cross St Pancras Tube - Euston Tube (walk - 10 mins. £0.00)

12:20 Euston Rail TOUCH IN
12:24 Euston Rail depart
12:40 Watford Junction arrive
12:52 Watford Junction depart
13:28 Imperial Wharf TOUCH OUT - 68 mins. Zones 1+2 Rail only Off-Peak Charge £1.70 or £1.90 (see Note)
Saturday maximum journey time Zones 1+2 = 110 mins.
Imperial Wharf is NOT an OSI.

13:50 Imperial Wharf TOUCH IN
13:53 Imperial Wharf depart
14:00 Clapham Junction arrive
14:08 Clapham Junction depart
14:17 Richmond arrive
14:27 Richmond depart
14:52 West Hampstead TOUCH OUT - OSI.
15:00 West Hampstead ThameslinkTOUCH IN - OSI.
Journey continues.
15:03 West Hampstead Thameslink depart
15:11 London St Pancras TOUCH OUT - 81 mins. Zones 1+2 Rail only Off-Peak Charge £1.70 or £1.90 (see Note)
Saturday maximum journey time Zones 1+2 = 110 mins.

Total charge £3.40 or £3.80.

Note 1: Euston [NR] - Imperial Wharf and Imperial Wharf - St Pancras: TfL single fare finder gives £1.90. TfL adult National Rail only fares table gives £1.70 for Oyster Off-Peak single zones 1+2.

 

[MikeWh]

Note 1: Euston [NR] - Imperial Wharf and Imperial Wharf - St Pancras: TfL single fare finder gives £1.90. TfL adult National Rail only fares table gives £1.70 for Oyster Off-Peak single zones 1+2.

Although London Overground is part of National Rail, the National Rail only fares only apply if part of the journey is made using National Rail services that joined Oyster in January 2010. If the journey is completely on those services that had joined before that date then the TfL Rail fares apply. It's all explained at the top of the page you linked to, these journeys are both entirely green routes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As to the overall plan, I must admit that it does look possible. The only caveat is what happens if there is any disruption. If the maximum journey time is exceeded then two unresolved journey charges will be made.