SWR outgoing Metro fleet withdrawals (complete)

[Robin Procter]

I spotted reference to Arterio Class701 earlier in this thread.
I photographed 701 054 on test and seen at Eastleigh in mid-July 2023 in SWR livery. I don't know what they are like to ride in but their exterior cab styling is so much more attractive than the Class455 they are replacing and which looks like a hastily converted carriage in my opinion.

ARTERIO ON TEST by Robin Procter, on Flickr

 

[XCTurbostar]

..their exterior cab styling is so much more attractive than the Class455 they are replacing and which looks like a hastily converted carriage in my opinion.

Exterior appearance is all a matter of perspective. The 455s looked very modern in the 1980s compared to the CIGs and VEPs!

I would also say your comparison is a bit unfair considering the 701s don’t have end gangways (a backward step if you ask me)

 

[Robin Procter]

Exterior appearance is all a matter of perspective. The 455s looked very modern in the 1980s compared to the CIGs and VEPs!

I would also say your comparison is a bit unfair considering the 701s don’t have end gangways (a backward step if you ask me)

.... Agreed that exterior appearance is largely a matter of personal opinion and taste. Livery can make a huge difference to a train's aesthetics.

I much prefer for any power car to look like a locomotive and not like a carriage with an engine bolted in.

The Class455s will have been modern and the latest-state-of-the-art at their time of introduction in the 1980s but being modern doesn't necessarily win them any awards for aesthetic beauty regardless of what designs they replaced. Having said that, I like Class444s which have gangway noses when they are in some liveries and when viewed from the side. Generally, I personally don't like the look of gangway-nosed trains even if they might be functionally useful - in ignorance I ask how are they useful? To drivers and railway staff? or to passengers?

HEADING DOWN TO THE SEASIDE by Robin Procter, on Flickr

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I spotted reference to Arterio Class701 earlier in this thread.
I photographed 701 054 on test and seen at Eastleigh in mid-July 2023 in SWR livery. I don't know what they are like to ride in but their exterior cab styling is so much more attractive than the Class455 they are replacing and which looks like a hastily converted carriage in my opinion.

ARTERIO ON TEST by Robin Procter, on Flickr

I agree and think they look lovely.
I’m bored of the unfunny and unoriginal jokes about them never entering service, when they do it will be very enjoyable for me certainly, and surely many others who regardless of taste will appreciate the warmth/coolness of the 21st century heating/aircon, mini tables, plug sockets, WiFi, toilets and updated passenger information. And no banging everytime another train passes. I’m just glad they don’t look metalic/tin can-esque inside like the 455s do.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Exterior appearance is all a matter of perspective. The 455s looked very modern in the 1980s compared to the CIGs and VEPs!

I would also say your comparison is a bit unfair considering the 701s don’t have end gangways (a backward step if you ask me)

I've got a real soft spot for the 455s.

 

[norbitonflyer]

All of a sudden the average fleet age drops..

Rises, surely, as 707s were the youngest members of the SWR fleet?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2023 ==

Generally, I personally don't like the look of gangway-nosed trains even if they might be functionally useful - in ignorance I ask how are they useful? To drivers and railway staff? or to passengers?

Southern and 1st generation BR slam-door stock only had them in units likely to be formed in trains where one unit had something not available in another unit in the same train - usually the buffet or restaurant. Hence not in the 6PUL/ 6PAN stock, as each six car unit had a pantry car, but in the COR/RES, BEP/CEP, BIG/CIG/VEP and REP/TC stocks, and the AM9s, but not in the contemporary EPB, HAP and 50x dc stock, nor any other AC stock (AM2 - AM8, AM10-AM12).

The Hastings diesel units were an exception, despite only seven units having buffet cars, because there was no room for a gangway beside the engine.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Rises, surely, as 707s were the youngest members of the SWR fleet?

Yes I was too quick on that one!

 

[Cowley]

Just a gentle nudge to say let’s not head too far down the route of discussing gangway door aesthetics etc please (by all means start a separate thread though obviously)…

 

[boiledbeans2]

I've noticed that some of the peak-only Waterloo - Guildford via Woking trains are now 8.455, e.g.

Realtime Trains | 1702 London Waterloo to Guildford | 26/10/2023

Real-time train running information for 1702 departure from London Waterloo to Guildford on 26/10/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Previously, I remembered they were 12.450. Is this something to do with a lack of trains?

 

[XCTurbostar]

I've noticed that some of the peak-only Waterloo - Guildford via Woking trains are now 8.455, e.g.

Realtime Trains | 1702 London Waterloo to Guildford | 26/10/2023

Real-time train running information for 1702 departure from London Waterloo to Guildford on 26/10/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Previously, I remembered they were 12.450. Is this something to do with a lack of trains?

I believe its because that specific diagram becomes a metro diagram later in the evening.

 

[swr444]

I believe its because that specific diagram becomes a metro diagram later in the evening.

yeah, it's been like this since May

 

[TEW]

It's been since December and is linked to the peak increase in frequency of services via Epsom. It immediately works back from Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham.

 

[swr444]

2 707s are staying with us at SWR for the foreseeable.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Since when? The path for them to disappear is literally in

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2023 ==

I spotted reference to Arterio Class701 earlier in this thread.
I photographed 701 054 on test and seen at Eastleigh in mid-July 2023 in SWR livery. I don't know what they are like to ride in but their exterior cab styling is so much more attractive than the Class455 they are replacing and which looks like a hastily converted carriage in my opinion.

ARTERIO ON TEST by Robin Procter, on Flickr

For future reference there is a separate thread for 701s.

 

[swr444]

Since when? The path for them to disappear is literally in

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Oct 2023 ==


For future reference there is a separate thread for 701s.

It’s been confirmed by Steve white on Twitter

 

[Robin Procter]

For future reference there is a separate thread for 701s.

.... Cheers! I have found it and joined in the discussion there.

 

[Siemens Staines]

This morning 707030 + 707024 were even allocated to 5Z19 on RTT, but they have since been de-allocated so this change must have occurred as the fat lady was in full voice...

 

[deepeetw]

This morning 707030 + 707024 were even allocated to 5Z19 on RTT, but they have since been de-allocated so this change must have occurred as the fat lady was in full voice...

Quite an embarrassing U-turn to be doing this at the last minute.

Are things a bit tighter than anticipated in terms of covering the timetable with trains of ?adequate? capacity?

 

[swr444]

With 458s slowly disappearing, id say so

Quite an embarrassing U-turn to be doing this at the last minute.

Are things a bit tighter than anticipated in terms of covering the timetable with trains of ?adequate? capacity?

 

[Siemens Staines]

It looks like 707024 + 707030 are making their first re-appearance since their withdrawal from SWR was postponed;

Realtime Trains | 2H21 1012 London Waterloo to Shepperton | 04/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 2H21 1012 departure from London Waterloo to Shepperton on 04/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

It looks like 707024 + 707030 are making their first re-appearance since their withdrawal from SWR was postponed;

Realtime Trains | 2H21 1012 London Waterloo to Shepperton | 04/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 2H21 1012 departure from London Waterloo to Shepperton on 04/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The impact of which will be cancelled out when the next couple of 458s are withdrawn.

Modern Railways reports that Alstom Widnes intend to ramp up to a 2-week turnaround per unit. That should see the 458s disappear rather quickly - and maybe bustitution on some lines due to lack of rolling stock!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The impact of which will be cancelled out when the next couple of 458s are withdrawn.

Modern Railways reports that Alstom Widnes intend to ramp up to a 2-week turnaround per unit. That should see the 458s disappear rather quickly - and maybe bustitution on some lines due to lack of rolling stock!

I’m almost certain they will therefore be forced onto the Windsor and Reading lines in their refurbished state then. Perhaps the ASLEF drivers would compromise by agreeing to drive them only on the routes 458s have historically run, as a temporary stopgap for 701s.

 

[Goldfish62]

I’m almost certain they will therefore be forced onto the Windsor and Reading lines in their refurbished state then. Perhaps the ASLEF drivers would compromise by agreeing to drive them only on the routes 458s have historically run, as a temporary stopgap for 701s.

That sounds reasonable.

 

[swr444]

I’m almost certain they will therefore be forced onto the Windsor and Reading lines in their refurbished state then. Perhaps the ASLEF drivers would compromise by agreeing to drive them only on the routes 458s have historically run, as a temporary stopgap for 701s.

which unfortunately means another capacity decrease which these lines does not need especially in the peak

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

which unfortunately means another capacity decrease which these lines does not need especially in the peak

I mean if it’s an 8-458 or nothing

 

[Goldfish62]

I mean if it’s an 8-458 or nothing

Or 4-450...

 

[cactustwirly]

I’m almost certain they will therefore be forced onto the Windsor and Reading lines in their refurbished state then. Perhaps the ASLEF drivers would compromise by agreeing to drive them only on the routes 458s have historically run, as a temporary stopgap for 701s.

They will just send 455s down

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They will just send 455s down

And what in their place?

 

[swr444]

I mean if it’s an 8-458 or nothing

Yes I know that. But it’s two carriages down on what it’s meant to be until the 701s miraculously appear

 

[Goldfish62]

And what in their place?

Nothing, presumably.