Fare Evasion Advice Needed

[help]

Hello,
I need some advice please. I recently got stopped by Govia Thameslink ticket inspector for shot ticketing. I was stopped at Farringdon while my flexi season ticket was from Bedford to Flitwick.

It was a very stupid act from me. Its just that the cost of the trains and other cost of living is taking the tole on me. I corporated with the ticket inspectors and truthfully answered every question.

I have never done this before and the inspector showed me that I started doing this from May and they have been monitoring me throughout that period.

I really don't want this to go to court or any criminal record, so I'm praying that they will agree an out of court settlement. I know it will be a hefty amount but my piece of mind is more important.

Can I check if anyone has been in a similar situation and can advice on how to manage this to a positive outcome?

The inspector said Thameslink will come back to me once he has sent his report. Does anyone know how long it takes for Thameslink to respond?

 

[MikeWh]

Moved to Disputes and Prosecutions for greater visibility among members who can help.

 

[skyhigh]

I corporated with the ticket inspectors and truthfully answered every question.

I have never done this before

These two statements don't seem to match. Is this really the first time you've done this, or have you been fare evading for 6 months?

 

[island]

I have never done this before and the inspector showed me that I started doing this from May and they have been monitoring me throughout that period.

At most one of these statements can be true. Which is it?

How were you getting through the ticket gates at Farringdon?

 

[help]

These two statements don't seem to match. Is this really the first time you've done this, or have you been fare evading for 6 months?

I have been doing this for six months, until I got stopped recently by the inspector.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2023 ==

At most one of these statements can be true. Which is it?

How were you getting through the ticket gates at Farringdon?

There are no thameslink ticket barrier in Farringdon.

 

[Haywain]

There are no thameslink ticket barrier in Farringdon.

So Farringdon was not your final destination? What was your destination and how were you getting there from Farringdon?

 

[help]

So Farringdon was not your final destination? What was your destination and how were you getting there from Farringdon?

Using normal contactless card through underground.

 

[Haywain]

Using normal contactless card through underground.

And was this definitely a Thameslink inspector who stopped you? Because if it was someone from TfL you are far more likely to be prosecuted.

 

[help]

And was this definitely a Thameslink inspector who stopped you? Because if it was someone from TfL you are far more likely to be prosecuted.

No, definitely a Thameslink officer. There were two of them and they stopped me just immediately I got off the Thameslink train in Farringdon. They mentioned they were thameslink. After taking my details and some other questions they gave me a thameslink slip with prefix starting with GTREMG.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,
I need some advice please. I recently got stopped by Govia Thameslink ticket inspector for shot ticketing. I was stopped at Farringdon while my flexi season ticket was from Bedford to Flitwick.

It was a very stupid act from me. Its just that the cost of the trains and other cost of living is taking the tole on me. I corporated with the ticket inspectors and truthfully answered every question.

I have never done this before and the inspector showed me that I started doing this from May and they have been monitoring me throughout that period.

I really don't want this to go to court or any criminal record, so I'm praying that they will agree an out of court settlement. I know it will be a hefty amount but my piece of mind is more important.

Can I check if anyone has been in a similar situation and can advice on how to manage this to a positive outcome?

The inspector said Thameslink will come back to me once he has sent his report. Does anyone know how long it takes for Thameslink to respond?

So you actually bought a season ticket for a short fare? (ie a season just to Flitwick when your regular destination is central London) - this will look to them what it is - a pre planned intention to regularly evade (on a daily basis) the correct fare. So that is the nub of your problem I would think.

Probably won't be too long before you hear from them - a few weeks maybe.

I would be buying a new season ticket for your full journey ASAP - at least it would give you something to show by way of indicating you have changed your ways.

They may still settle, but as you say they will want a decent sum of money.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Were the inspectors waiting for you at Farringdon, or had they been following you on the train? If they’d been waiting at Farringdon then I wonder how they knew you’d get off there. Perhaps they’d followed you previously.

Do people think there’s a possibility that Thameslink have been communicating with TfL to figure out what the OP has been doing? If the OP hasn’t been touching in or out at Farringdon with contactless then perhaps they’ll be hearing from TfL too in due course.

 

[help]

So

So you actually bought a season ticket for a short fare? (ie a season just to Flitwick when your regular destination is central London) - this will look to them what it is - a pre planned intention to regularly evade (on a daily basis) the correct fare. So that is the nub of your problem I would think.

Probably won't be too long before you hear from them - a few weeks maybe.

I would be buying a new season ticket for your full journey ASAP - at least it would give you something to show by way of indicating you have changed your ways.

They may still settle, but as you say they will want a decent sum of money.

Yes, do you have an indication of the range of the sum of money if they choose settlement? I'm praying they do as I don't want any court hearing. I purchased a flexi season to Flitwick but was stopping at Farringdon. It was a stupid act on my part. The high expenses and cost of living completely got me desperate.

 

[John R]

There were two of them and they stopped me just immediately I got off the Thameslink train in Farringdon.

This suggests that this wasn’t just a random check which caught you, but that they had been investigating a suspicious pattern of behaviour previously, which maybe isn’t surprising given how long you had been doing it. If so, that may make an out of court settlement more challenging, though not impossible.

Edited to note that @ChewChewTrain has had similar thoughts posted at the same time.

 

[help]

Were the inspectors waiting for you at Farringdon, or had they been following you on the train? If they’d been waiting at Farringdon then I wonder how they knew you’d get off there. Perhaps they’d followed you previously.

Do people think there’s a possibility that Thameslink have been communicating with TfL to figure out what the OP has been doing? If the OP hasn’t been touching in or out at Farringdon with contactless then perhaps they’ll be hearing from TfL too in due course.

They said they followed me a couple of times in train to monitor what I was doing.

 

[WesternLancer]

sorry - I don't really know how much - but you could start to get some idea by finding the full Anytime fare from Bedford (or maybe Flitwick) to your actual destination then multiplying that by the number of days on your season ticket. Then they would want 'admin' fee on top - which probably not cheap given it looks like they have spent staff time monitoring you.

 

[John R]

One thing I would suggest is that you work out how much they are likely to want, either as a settlement, or will put to the court as the amount avoided.

An anytime day single from Bedford to Farringdon is around £51, so multiply that by the number of single journeys taken as a “starter for 10” as to what they may be looking for. The costs of their investigation, which it sounds could be substantial might be added on top. It will be in your best interests to be able to pay that quickly if they do offer you a settlement.

 

[help]

sorry - I don't really know how much - but you could start to get some idea by finding the full Anytime fare from Bedford (or maybe Flitwick) to your actual destination then multiplying that by the number of days on your season ticket. Then they would want 'admin' fee on top - which probably not cheap given it looks like they have spent staff time monitoring you.

So they cannot consider me paying the outstanding fare plus the admin fee?

 

[John R]

So they cannot consider me paying the outstanding fare plus the admin fee?

It’s possible, but more likely that they will discount any amount paid in any settlement offer. In which case you’d want to consider whether it was worth arguing the point with them, as they could quite easily withdraw it and say “see you in court”. Given you’ve been on their radar for some time, my hunch is they won’t be bending over backwards to offer you an easy way out unfortunately.

 

[help]

It’s possible, but more likely that they will discount any amount paid in any settlement offer. In which case you’d want to consider whether it was worth arguing the point with them, as they could quite easily withdraw it and say “see you in court”. Given you’ve been on their radar for some time, my hunch is they won’t be bending over backwards to offer you an easy way out unfortunately.

Thanks for the advice. I will wait to see what the letter will say.

 

[furlong]

I think this problem has grown well out of control and must represent a significant revenue loss. The new methods of ticketing are shining a new light on it. The less time they have to spend dealing with you, the more time they can spend trying to catch all the other people doing something similar. So I think your best chance of a settlement is to do things that save them time and co-operate so they get to close your file quickly and deal with more cases.

 

[help]

I think this problem has grown well out of control and must represent a significant revenue loss. The new methods of ticketing are shining a new light on it. The less time they have to spend dealing with you, the more time they can spend trying to catch all the other people doing something similar. So I think your best chance of a settlement is to do things that save them time and co-operate so they get to close your file quickly and deal with more cases.

Ya, I'll push for the settlement. Fingers cross

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2023 ==

I take it that court results in criminal record and harms dbs check right?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I take it that court results in criminal record and harms dbs check right?

Yes.

At this point, I normally make a post noting that a single minor conviction on a DBS need not be a problem. But given the extent of the fare evasion here that may not be appropriate.

You may have to prepare yourself for not being able to get out of this position without substantial expense (whether in terms of a court fine or an out of court settlement, and maybe with solicitor’s costs on top if you choose to employ one) and quite possibly having to reveal long-term dishonesty to an employer.

(Edited to add a missing word)

 

[Camsus]

No, definitely a Thameslink officer. There were two of them and they stopped me just immediately I got off the Thameslink train in Farringdon. They mentioned they were thameslink. After taking my details and some other questions they gave me a thameslink slip with prefix starting with GTREMG.

Were they in uniform or plain clothes?

 

[RPI]

The fact that at Flexi has been used will be a benefit to them as it has to be activated, so they'll know by the times it was activated exactly how many times you've travelled.

 

[help]

Were they in uniform or plain clothes?

In plain clothes

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

You have been deliberately travelling with invalid tickets for six months which is a serious matter. How serious do you think the level of offending be before it ends up in court? As for what will happen next GTR will write to you saing that they have sufficient evidence to prosecute but asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It's extremely important that you repspod to this letter. I suggest mentioning the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are offered a settlement this will be expensive - it appears they have been actively investigating your travel pattern so expect any settlement to reflect the cost of this investigation plus the outstanding fares for the whole period of fraudulent travel, using Anytime fares with no credit given for the fares you used.

Post a copy of the letter when it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[fandroid]

Whatever they do, they'll probably play it by the book. The unpaid fares requested will probably be from Flitwick to Farringdon, but all as single Anytime fares. That's all they could ask for as direct compensation (as distinct from costs) if it went to court, and it's conceivable that they might want to make an example here.

I am saying this as the actual fare evasion only started at and as far as Flitwick. Assuming all Bedford trains stop there, which they appear to do.

 

[help]

Welcome to the forum!

You have been deliberately travelling with invalid tickets for six months which is a serious matter. How serious do you think the level of offending be before it ends up in court? As for what will happen next GTR will write to you saing that they have sufficient evidence to prosecute but asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It's extremely important that you repspod to this letter. I suggest mentioning the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are offered a settlement this will be expensive - it appears they have been actively investigating your travel pattern so expect any settlement to reflect the cost of this investigation plus the outstanding fares for the whole period of fraudulent travel, using Anytime fares with no credit given for the fares you used.

Post a copy of the letter when it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thank you for the advice. I asked the inspector what happens next after he gave me the slip. He suggested they will write me but likely that I will pay a penalty fee and the outstanding. I was checking online, if there has been incidents that went to court. Are you aware of any? I'm really worried.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2023 ==

Whatever they do, they'll probably play it by the book. The unpaid fares requested will probably be from Flitwick to Farringdon, but all as single Anytime fares. That's all they could ask for as direct compensation (as distinct from costs) if it went to court, and it's conceivable that they might want to make an example here.

I am saying this as the actual fare evasion only started at and as far as Flitwick. Assuming all Bedford trains stop there, which they appear to do.

When you say single anytime fare, don't you mean open return fare since the person has to come back to starting station?

 

[Haywain]

Thank you for the advice. I asked the inspector what happens next after he gave me the slip. He suggested they will write me but likely that I will pay a penalty fee and the outstanding. I was checking online, if there has been incidents that went to court. Are you aware of any? I'm really worried.

Plenty of cases go to court, usually when the perpetrators fail to engage with the train company.

In your case, it is clear that GTR have a significant amount of evidence against you. You have been followed on 3 occasions and it will have taken a good number of previous occasions to raise their concerns and then identify you in order that they could follow you. This means that in court they would be in a position to claim significant compensation and costs.

There is a strong possibility of you being able to avoid court proceedings but it is going to be expensive - moreso than if you had paid for your journeys at the outset.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for the advice. I asked the inspector what happens next after he gave me the slip. He suggested they will write me but likely that I will pay a penalty fee and the outstanding. I was checking online, if there has been incidents that went to court. Are you aware of any? I'm really worried.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Nov 2023 ==


When you say single anytime fare, don't you mean open return fare since the person has to come back to starting station?

No, the single Anytime Fare is a one way fare - they will look for that cost for each one way you went. The Anytime Return Fare is both ways, and often that is twice the Single Fare (bit not always).

The railway takes vast numbers of people to court and prosecutes them - probably hundreds of cases every month if not every week. But many of these will be with people who do not engage with the Railway and bury their head in the sand after being caught. Your only chance of avoiding going to court is to engage with them (as per Hadders advice up thread). You can of course consider employing a solicitor to do that on your behalf.

You have to see it form their point of view. You deliberately planned regular travel without paying the fare required. It's not just the railway who might well think that deserves punishment by a court, it would also be large numbers of people who actually pay the correct fare who might think the same too.