TfL considering Overground extension to London Bridge

[bicbasher]

In responses made to Lewisham Council, Transport for London are considering adding a service into London Bridge along the Sydenham corridor to relieve the current ELL service which has become overcrowded, especially in the morning peak due to Southern cutting the London Bridge service from 4tph to 2tph due to revenue cuts.

If this happens, it'll be a Crystal Palace service as there's no capacity to terminate them at West Croydon.

TfL considering London Overground extension to London Bridge

Transport for London (TfL) is considering extending the London Overground to run into London Bridge station to replace capacity lost when Southern cut services in south London.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

Transport for London (TfL) is considering extending the London Overground to run into London Bridge station to replace capacity lost when Southern cut services in south London.

In the response to Lewisham Council - PDF File - https://councilmeetings.lewisham.gov.uk/documents/s111890/PTLC Responses 04102023 2.pdf

Operating additional services during peak periods between Crystal Palace and London Bridge, replacing capacity on this routing that has been lost following the reduction to Southern services • This would represent a new routing for London Overground services that would necessitate significant changes to operational arrangements and driver training. Further work is therefore required to establish the feasibility and business case for this change • There are currently no confirmed timescales for the implementation of either of these options due to the further work they require.

 

[zwk500]

If this service is remunerative, why aren't GTR angling to bring it back? If it isn't, how are TfL going to fund it? I assume it's using the slots left for the eventual extra ELL-Crystal Palace services that were mooted, although it'll be interested to see what space is left at London Bridge for them to use.

Mind you service cuts in London do seem very unjustified now. Would seem a better use of money to get GTR to put them back in.

 

[bicbasher]

If this service is remunerative, why aren't GTR angling to bring it back? If it isn't, how are TfL going to fund it? I assume it's using the slots left for the eventual extra ELL-Crystal Palace services that were mooted, although it'll be interested to see what space is left at London Bridge for them to use.

Mind you service cuts in London do seem very unjustified now. Would seem a better use of money to get GTR to put them back in.

GTR claimed in their response to Lewisham Council that they'd require extra funding to return to 4tph on the Sydenham slows. They also claim that the current 2tph service has enough capacity without recognising the pressure it's putting on Overground services as passengers are using the ELL and then the Jubilee to reach London Bridge instead of waiting for the Southern service.

Penge West and Anerley are fully reliant on London Overground since Southern only have less than a handful of services that serve them.

 

[zwk500]

GTR claimed in their response to Lewisham Council that they'd require extra funding to return to 4tph on the Sydenham slows.

Given TfL's financial, ahem, 'position' how are they planning to fund this service then? TfL are unlikely to be able to achieve significantly lower operating costs than GTR.

 

[deltic]

Given TfL's financial, ahem, 'position' how are they planning to fund this service then? TfL are unlikely to be able to achieve significantly lower operating costs than GTR.

Orcats raid on Southern!?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If they do bring it back, that's going to cause an interesting Pay-as-you-go pricing issues: London Bridge national rail platforms are viewed by the Oyster/contactless system as national rail platforms, but I doubt Sadiq Khan would be happy to see people charged national rail fares to use Overground services (I suspect they would have to be charged as national rail services if people use them to London Bridge - there's not really any way to avoid that).

 

[bicbasher]

If they do bring it back, that's going to cause an interesting Pay-as-you-go pricing issues: London Bridge national rail platforms are viewed by the Oyster/contactless system as national rail platforms, but I doubt Sadiq Khan would be happy to see people charged national rail fares to use Overground services (I suspect they would have to be charged as national rail services if people use them to London Bridge - there's not really any way to avoid that).

They could allocate the terminating gatelines at the Southern end of the station to accept TfL through fares. I'm sure it could be calculated that passengers who use Queen's Road Peckham and Peckham Rye into London Bridge using Southern rather than the Overground will get charged NR fares or NR/TfL through fares.

Passengers between New Cross Gate and West Croydon/Crystal Palace are already on the TfL scale for local journeys regardless of TOC and are charged NR at London Bridge.

 

[JonathanH]

Mind you service cuts in London do seem very unjustified now. Would seem a better use of money to get GTR to put them back in.

London Overground has the stock (eg cascade fed by putting 710s into service) to run these services without needing to cut elsewhere, and terminating at Crystal Palace means these can be short journeys at the height of the peak linked to the rest of the LO operation.

Looks far and away the most efficient way of providing the amount of additional capacity needed, given the base at New Cross Gate.

 

[507020]

I doubt Sadiq Khan would be happy to see people charged national rail fares to use Overground services

But “London Overground” services are “national rail”, as are “Elizabeth Line” services?

 

[PGAT]

I think this discussion belongs here:

TfL considering Sydenham corridor AM improvement

Please post the diagram :) I’d like to see a “what if” scenario. Here it is! So happy I’ve kept so many train magazines from over the years.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[matt_world2004]

If they do bring it back, that's going to cause an interesting Pay-as-you-go pricing issues: London Bridge national rail platforms are viewed by the Oyster/contactless system as national rail platforms, but I doubt Sadiq Khan would be happy to see people charged national rail fares to use Overground services (I suspect they would have to be charged as national rail services if people use them to London Bridge - there's not really any way to avoid that).

London Bridge on thameslink is priced at the tube scale between London Bridge and Kentish town

 

[yorkie]

But “London Overground” services are “national rail”, as are “Elizabeth Line” services?

Yes, but (mostly) charged at TfL fare scales

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2023 ==

I think this discussion belongs here:

TfL considering Sydenham corridor AM improvement

Please post the diagram :) I’d like to see a “what if” scenario. Here it is! So happy I’ve kept so many train magazines from over the years.

www.railforums.co.uk

Agreed; once work is underway we can have an additional progress updates thread, but for now the existing thread should suffice.