European timetables 2024

[popeter45]

are the timings of the Paris-Berlin Nightjet known yet?

 

[jamesontheroad]

A small update for anyone interested in travel in Finland after 10 December 2023.

VR opens bookings at 10.00EET (09.00CET) tomorrow, 4 October 2023, for all trains from 10 December 2023 to 17 March 2024.

This is a week ahead of most European operators, who start on or around 11 October 2023.

 

[AlbertBeale]

A small update for anyone interested in travel in Finland after 10 December 2023.

VR opens bookings at 10.00EET (09.00CET) tomorrow, 4 October 2023, for all trains from 10 December 2023 to 17 March 2024.

This is a week ahead of most European operators, who start on or around 11 October 2023.

I think some internal French routes are opening booking from about now for services in the month or so following the December timetable change. Does anyone know when bookings for post-timetable-change services will open for (a) tickets on German routes, (b) Austrian seat reservations? (In the latter case, it seems possible in at least some instances to buy tickets now but not to reserve seats...)

 

[Austriantrain]

I think some internal French routes are opening booking from about now for services in the month or so following the December timetable change. Does anyone know when bookings for post-timetable-change services will open for (a) tickets on German routes, (b) Austrian seat reservations? (In the latter case, it seems possible in at least some instances to buy tickets now but not to reserve seats...)

Around October 20th, as I recall.

 

[jamesontheroad]

I think some internal French routes are opening booking from about now for services in the month or so following the December timetable change. Does anyone know when bookings for post-timetable-change services will open for (a) tickets on German routes, (b) Austrian seat reservations? (In the latter case, it seems possible in at least some instances to buy tickets now but not to reserve seats...)

NS International in the Netherlands has a good single page with overviews for several countries: https://www.nsinternational.com/en/schedule

 

[Fragezeichnen]

are the timings of the Paris-Berlin Nightjet known yet?

Here are the timings for Berlin - Paris/Brussels: https://twitter.com/Lenny_du_Nord/status/1694972535765450906

In order to facilitate portion working, they're a little bit bizarre. The Berlin to Brussels service will run via Frankfurt to Mannheim(!), 300 km south of Berliln and 150 km south of Brussels where will it will exchange carriages with the Wien - Brussels service which will be re-routed via Munich instead of Passau; before reversing and heading north again, narrowly avoiding calling at Frankfurt a second time. In the end the ÖBB Berlin - Brussels service will take 2.5 hours longer than European Sleeper's does.

 

[popeter45]

Here are the timings for Berlin - Paris/Brussels: https://twitter.com/Lenny_du_Nord/status/1694972535765450906

In order to facilitate portion working, they're a little bit bizarre. The Berlin to Brussels service will run via Frankfurt to Mannheim(!), 300 km south of Berliln and 150 km south of Brussels where will it will exchange carriages with the Wien - Brussels service which will be re-routed via Munich instead of Passau; before reversing and heading north again, narrowly avoiding calling at Frankfurt a second time. In the end the ÖBB Berlin - Brussels service will take 2.5 hours longer than European Sleeper's does.

thanks, OBB actually works out better because of that 2.5 hour extra as arrives at a more comftable time in berlin of 8:30 vs 6:45
just need to wait for booking to open tomorow hopefully

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2023 ==

first booking of 2024 made \o/
seems Hamburg to copenhagen is a Eurocity now instead of a intercity and no longer demands a seat reservation at least in febuary

 

[AdamWW]

first booking of 2024 made \o/
seems Hamburg to copenhagen is a Eurocity now instead of a intercity and no longer demands a seat reservation at least in febuary

A few years back (when it ran on the ferry) I think it was just in the summer that it was reservation compulsory.

 

[rvdborgt]

A few years back (when it ran on the ferry) I think it was just in the summer that it was reservation compulsory.

That was still the case this summer. From mid-June to mid-August.

 

[jamesontheroad]

seems Hamburg to copenhagen is a Eurocity now instead of a intercity and no longer demands a seat reservation at least in febuary

I recall that EuroCity standard requires certain amenities to be available, specifically catering. DSB have never offered more than a roving 7-Eleven contractor with a coffee dispenser in their backpack (and only in Denmark). Seems odd that it has been upgraded from IC to EC without a more serious catering offer.

 

[Austriantrain]

I recall that EuroCity standard requires certain amenities to be available, specifically catering. DSB have never offered more than a roving 7-Eleven contractor with a coffee dispenser in their backpack (and only in Denmark). Seems odd that it has been upgraded from IC to EC without a more serious catering offer.

I think that these Eurocity standards are long dead.

 

[duesselmartin]

Certainly the Munich to Italy EC have almost no catering

 

[Austriantrain]

Certainly the Munich to Italy EC have almost no catering

Not anymore. The restaurant cars produced so many faults with the very varying Italian power supply (nominally 3 kV DC, but fluctuates wildly) that they were sidelined - they were out of service half the time anyway. Will get better again once the new Railjet sets are in service.

 

[DanielB]

How will this work? At the moment the Vienna Hamburg train portion works with Innsbruck Hamburg (and both origins also have portions to Amsterdam).
Am I right in thinking that the new NJ sets will be like the RailJets, in that the locomotive will be semi-permanently coupled to the coaches? So, there will effectively be old coaches with a locomotive on the front, then a new NJ set with another locomotive?

Exactly like that. These photos on X show an OeBB locomotive with new Nightjet set with an NS Vectron with the old coaches coupled to the driving trailer of the new set.

 

[ABB125]

Exactly like that. These photos on X show an OeBB locomotive with new Nightjet set with an NS Vectron with the old coaches coupled to the driving trailer of the new set.

Thanks, that's interesting to see.

 

[popeter45]

Exactly like that. These photos on X show an OeBB locomotive with new Nightjet set with an NS Vectron with the old coaches coupled to the driving trailer of the new set.

is the vectron dead in tow or also powering the set?
if powering then first time ive heard of a sprinter and vectron working together
if not im suprised they didnt just run the new set cab first with the loco sandwiched in the middle?

 

[43096]

is the vectron dead in tow or also powering the set?
if powering then first time ive heard of a sprinter and vectron working together
if not im suprised they didnt just run the new set cab first with the loco sandwiched in the middle?

The jumpers are plugged in, so likely working.

Note that this just plugs in and it works. No fancy autocouplers, just buffers, screw couplers and jumper cables with vehicles from different classes (ES64U2 and Vectron), different owner and operators (ÖBB, ELL and NS). Can you imagine how long - and how much paperwork - it would take in the UK to even think about doing that?

 

[Austriantrain]

is the vectron dead in tow or also powering the set?
if powering then first time ive heard of a sprinter and vectron working together
if not im suprised they didnt just run the new set cab first with the loco sandwiched in the middle?

They are not allowed cab first in service (yet), only pulled.

 

[ABB125]

They are not allowed cab first in service (yet), only pulled.

How will that work when the set arrives at Amsterdam? Will the locomotive run round, or will the set be turned on a triangle somewhere?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I recall that EuroCity standard requires certain amenities to be available, specifically catering. DSB have never offered more than a roving 7-Eleven contractor with a coffee dispenser in their backpack (and only in Denmark). Seems odd that it has been upgraded from IC to EC without a more serious catering offer.

These standards haven’t existed for years. EC ‘Iris’ ran for decades between Brussels and Chur with no catering.

vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2013 » SBB EC » EC 96 Iris

 

[D6130]

The jumpers are plugged in, so likely working.

Note that this just plugs in and it works. No fancy autocouplers, just buffers, screw couplers and jumper cables with vehicles from different classes (ES64U2 and Vectron), different owner and operators (ÖBB, ELL and NS). Can you imagine how long - and how much paperwork - it would take in the UK to even think about doing that?

....or in Italy!

 

[popeter45]

Not the best start by the looks of things
Seems to have broken down just after Nuremberg

 

[DanielB]

How will that work when the set arrives at Amsterdam? Will the locomotive run round, or will the set be turned on a triangle somewhere?

The new sets don't run to Amsterdam yet, only the Hamburg portion is new as of today.
Obviously they would handle it in the same way as nowadays: the NJ continues to Westhaven yard and there the locomotive runs round.

 

[nwales58]

For an apparent timetable change:

Lugano - Milano Centrale: most journey planners show the fast RE80, 1h15 (and no Interrail supplement) as only running as far south as Chiasso now.

So without using the less frequent reservation-only EC:

DB shows the stopping service taking nearly two hours and to Porto Garibaldi instead of Centrale.

Trenitalia (yes, I know ...) is even worse only showing 2h30 journeys via Gallarate.

Interrail Rail Planner: tick the no reservations and pass network only boxes and you only see 6h40 journeys via Locarno and FART to Domodossola. OeBB similar. Scenic but utterly wrong.

Only Trenord and SBB show the RE80 still running all the way to Milan.

I don't know whether this happened at the timetable change or earlier, but the RE80 used to show up correctly on DB and OeBB.

This non-change, which could mislead non-locals, shows the importance of using the operator's journey planner where possible. Not even the national operator for the country is correct in this case.

 

[rvdborgt]

For an apparent timetable change:

Lugano - Milano Centrale: most journey planners show the fast RE80, 1h15 (and no Interrail supplement) as only running as far south as Chiasso now.

That's because Tenitalia/Trenord were very, very late publishing their new regional timetables, as usual, and it's anyone's guess when they'll send them to the European Timetable Centre, which is needed for DB and others to be able to include it.

Interrail Rail Planner: tick the no reservations and pass network only boxes and you only see 6h40 journeys via Locarno and FART to Domodossola. OeBB similar. Scenic but utterly wrong.

That planner should of course never be used to plan anything. It'll be the last one to get the updates.

Only Trenord and SBB show the RE80 still running all the way to Milan.

They probably fixed the missing timetables by a quick local update.

I don't know whether this happened at the timetable change or earlier, but the RE80 used to show up correctly on DB and OeBB.

Sure it's because of the timetable change. We'll probably see this again in June :/

 

[JonasB]

Danish youtuber Kenny has made a summary of the changes in Denmark. (In Danish but English subtitles available.)

One small change that will become big in a few years is that Ny Ellebjerg station gets the new name København Syd (Copenhagen South) and will become a new major hub. Currently two new platforms are being built that will allow trains from Sweden to Germany to stop there.

 

[popeter45]

Not the best start by the looks of things
Seems to have broken down just after Nuremberg

another bad night with a 3hr delay at vienna
once fully on the new stock feel like this is the kind of time the 230km/h capabilities would come in handy on the high speed line between Vienna and Linz

 

[Fragezeichnen]

is the vectron dead in tow or also powering the set?
if powering then first time ive heard of a sprinter and vectron working together
if not im suprised they didnt just run the new set cab first with the loco sandwiched in the middle?

If the locomotives were adjacent and they were both powering the maximum speed would be reduced due to rules about running with two pantographs close together.

The jumpers are plugged in, so likely working.

Note that this just plugs in and it works. No fancy autocouplers, just buffers, screw couplers and jumper cables with vehicles from different classes (ES64U2 and Vectron), different owner and operators (ÖBB, ELL and NS). Can you imagine how long - and how much paperwork - it would take in the UK to even think about doing that?

One off specials with freight locomotives operate regularly in the UK, don't they? Why would it be a problem?

 

[30907]

One off specials with freight locomotives operate regularly in the UK, don't they? Why would it be a problem?

They use vintage stock (Mk1-3) which isn't used on regular trains though.