European timetables 2024

[Austriantrain]

Since various threads are popping up, I though I would start a consolidated one:

Austria/international

- the new Nightjet sets are planned to enter service in December on the Wien - Hamburg train, then during winter on the Wien - Bregenz train. They will not run to Italy before the summer/fall (I suppose for approval issues, but cannot say with certainty)

- the Vienna - Paris will stay at 3/week until fall - together with the new Berlin - Paris - and should then switch to daily

- there will be an additional ICE Vienna - Passau - Germany (dept Vienna 6:13, arrival 21:47, from and to Berlin)

- there will be various new trains Villach - Ljubljana and Graz - Maribor, using Slovenian Flirt, vastly improving service at those border crossings.

- ICE4 sets will run on two train pairs Germany - Munich - Salzburg - Klagenfurt, but only until summer 2024. The Tauern line will close for major renewals in fall 2024 for almost a year.

- on the Graz - Salzburg- Germany trains, the DB IC1 sets will be replaced by ÖBB sets.

I‘ll add more in time.

 

[30907]

When was the change of plan to use the new NJ sets on Wien-Bregenz announced? Seat61 is behind the times!

 

[rvdborgt]

- the Vienna - Paris will stay at 3/week until fall - together with the new Berlin - Paris - and should then switch to daily

In December, Brussels/Paris <-> Berlin/Vienna starts, integrating the current Paris-Vienna and Brussels-Vienna services; the latter one will not be attached anymore to the train from/to Amsterdam. Carriages are exchanged in Mannheim. 3/week until October is the current plan; until recently the plan was until the end of March, or maybe June but I suppose there are more delays delivering the new sets.

 

[Austriantrain]

When was the change of plan to use the new NJ sets on Wien-Bregenz announced? Seat61 is behind the times!

Not been announced officially yet. However, timetables and rolling stock plans are closed by now of course; the actual switchover date to the new sets might change though.

 

[43096]

- on the Graz - Salzburg- Germany trains, the DB IC1 sets will be replaced by ÖBB sets.

I'm assuming that is going over to ÖBB loco-hauled stock (i.e. not RailJet) with Taurus power. It will be interesting to see if it is top'n'tail Taurus to cope with reversals, as is the case with EC112/113.

 

[30907]

Not been announced officially yet. However, timetables and rolling stock plans are closed by now of course; the actual switchover date to the new sets might change though.

Is it because of problems with Italy - or the (sensible IMO) desire to have a purely Austrian route to iron out any snags?

I can feel a return trip coming on using a new NJ one way and a DD car the other!

 

[Austriantrain]

Is it because of problems with Italy - or the (sensible IMO) desire to have a purely Austrian route to iron out any snags?

I can feel a return trip coming on using a new NJ one way and a DD car the other!

The first use will be to Hamburg - that has been confirmed last week at a joint DB/ÖBB press conference.

So I suppose the reason is approval for Italy. Don’t know for sure though.

 

[dutchflyer]

Think this was in another thread-or in another forum: Göteborg-Oslo will gain a steady 2-hr service all day in stead of the mostly ev. 4 hrs. now.
I´ve in german forums also read about speeding up Copenhagen-Hamburg trains by omitting the Flensburg loop. The other danish trains from Aalborg/Aarhus will instead terminate at Flensburg.

 

[Segedunum]

Think this was in another thread-or in another forum: Göteborg-Oslo will gain a steady 2-hr service all day in stead of the mostly ev. 4 hrs. now.
I´ve in german forums also read about speeding up Copenhagen-Hamburg trains by omitting the Flensburg loop. The other danish trains from Aalborg/Aarhus will instead terminate at Flensburg.

That's pretty much how it works at the moment (though there are a couple of outliers - there's a train in the middle of the day that does Fredericia to Hamburg via Flensburg).

The Hamburg service runs right behind and you'd typically change at Kolding or Padborg. Some of the services to Hamburg stop at Schleswig as well.

 

[rvdborgt]

I´ve in german forums also read about speeding up Copenhagen-Hamburg trains by omitting the Flensburg loop.

You may want to check the current route and maybe reread that thread on DSO.

 

[DanielB]

Intercity services between Amsterdam and Berlin will have a 30 minute shorter journey time in 2024, enabled by removing the need to swap locomotives in Bad Bentheim as they will be pulled by an NS Vectron all the way to Berlin. They will also no longer stop at Almelo in the Netherlands.
Departure times are moved one hour forward, so departures from Amsterdam will be at the even hours (now at the odd hours). Parts of the track in the eastern Netherlands have been equipped with monitoring equipment to detect any movement in the embankment. As long as that doesn't happen the Vectron locomotives will be allowed to run at linespeed there instead of being limited to 100 km/h due to their weight class.

Interesting as well: NS has applied for paths for four fast IC-services per direction per day from Amsterdam to Brussels, cutting the journey time from the current 2h50m to 2 hours.
These services are basically using Eurostar paths at the hours no Eurostar is running, though they are departing ~10 minutes earlier / arriving ~ 10 minutes later in Amsterdam, so are likely to use 200 km/h stock (ICNG-B).

 

[ABB125]

- the new Nightjet sets are planned to enter service in December on the Wien - Hamburg train, then during winter on the Wien - Bregenz train. They will not run to Italy before the summer/fall (I suppose for approval issues, but cannot say with certainty)

How will this work? At the moment the Vienna Hamburg train portion works with Innsbruck Hamburg (and both origins also have portions to Amsterdam).
Am I right in thinking that the new NJ sets will be like the RailJets, in that the locomotive will be semi-permanently coupled to the coaches? So, there will effectively be old coaches with a locomotive on the front, then a new NJ set with another locomotive?

Also, I can't remember if this has been answered before, but is the plan to use a Taurus on the new NJ sets?

Thanks

 

[30907]

How will this work? At the moment the Vienna Hamburg train portion works with Innsbruck Hamburg (and both origins also have portions to Amsterdam).
Am I right in thinking that the new NJ sets will be like the RailJets, in that the locomotive will be semi-permanently coupled to the coaches? So, there will effectively be old coaches with a locomotive on the front, then a new NJ set with another locomotive?

Yes, basically.
AIUI from OeBB/DB announcement both Hamburg portions will be new stock, both Amsterdam portions will be present stock.
Whether 2 locos will work Nùrnberg-Amsterdam I don't know - indeed I'm not sure a second loco is required from Wien/Innsbruck on present schedules.
(The Motorail portions are withdrawn, according to discussion on a German forum.)

 

[JonasB]

Since various threads are popping up, I though I would start a consolidated one:

Great idea!

- there will be various new trains Villach - Ljubljana and Graz - Maribor, using Slovenian Flirt, vastly improving service at those border crossings.

Do you have a link to more information about those trains?

 

[Austriantrain]

How will this work? At the moment the Vienna Hamburg train portion works with Innsbruck Hamburg (and both origins also have portions to Amsterdam).
Am I right in thinking that the new NJ sets will be like the RailJets, in that the locomotive will be semi-permanently coupled to the coaches? So, there will effectively be old coaches with a locomotive on the front, then a new NJ set with another locomotive?

NJ sets will definitely have to work combined to „classic“ sets on some routes.

Also, I can't remember if this has been answered before, but is the plan to use a Taurus on the new NJ sets?

Thanks

I suppose so, in the beginning. Vectron is a possible option for the future though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2023 ==

Do you have a link to more information about those trains?

It will be three new train pairs each, which will be in addition to the current trains, so the offer will finally be halfway decent.

 

[JonasB]

It will be three new train pairs each, which will be in addition to the current trains, so the offer will finally be halfway decent.

If I'm not mistaken, there are three daily pairs today? In which case it is a big step in the right direction.

 

[Segedunum]

If I'm not mistaken, there are three daily pairs today? In which case it is a big step in the right direction.

I've noted that the previous through train from Wien to Zagreb via this corridor has been cut to a two-carriage Graz to Zagreb service: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=OeBB&kategorie=EC&cislo=159&rok=2023

EC212 Mimara and its equivalent return train has also had the same treatment and runs only from Zagreb to Villach rather than all the way to Frankfurt: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=HZPP&kategorie=EC&cislo=212&rok=2023

This looks to be from last Monday - I don't know if there are plans to bring them back or whether or a more 'focused' service as is mentioned above, with frequent shorter services, will be the way forward. I know that these services were usually liable to delays in Croatia/Slovenia and would often terminate once reaching Austria.

 

[Austriantrain]

I've noted that the previous through train from Wien to Zagreb via this corridor has been cut to a two-carriage Graz to Zagreb service: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=OeBB&kategorie=EC&cislo=159&rok=2023

EC212 Mimara and its equivalent return train has also had the same treatment and runs only from Zagreb to Villach rather than all the way to Frankfurt: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=HZPP&kategorie=EC&cislo=212&rok=2023

This looks to be from last Monday - I don't know if there are plans to bring them back or whether or a more 'focused' service as is mentioned above, with frequent shorter services, will be the way forward. I know that these services were usually liable to delays in Croatia/Slovenia and would often terminate once reaching Austria.

The reasons for this have not been explained publicly. One theory is that (and in as much it is definitely true) ÖBB suffer from a severe lack of long-distance rolling stock. The theory is that in this way, they reduce the stock necessary.

Also, coming from the South, these trains, especially the Zagreb - Vienna - tend to be heavily delayed. The timetable on the Südbahn is hourly at most and those delays are very passenger-unfriendly, since there are no alternatives.

From what I know, the situation will persist from December. I do not know for how long.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2023 ==

If I'm not mistaken, there are three daily pairs today? In which case it is a big step in the right direction.

The problem on both lines is
1. little spare capacity, both are partly or in the case of Villach - Ljubljana almost entirely single-track. Freight demand is very strong and in the case of Graz - Maribor there is very strong commuter traffic south of Graz.

2. demand has never been very high, above all because journey times and timetables for onward journeys are terrible (Ljubljana is not very large, Maribor is smallish), and so are journey times from Vienna/Munich.

So this is probably the best to expect at the moment.

I hope for further improvements when the Semmering tunnel and the Koralmbahn are both open and journey times at least from Vienna (which has a huge diaspora from ex-YU-countries and there is also strong tourist travel) will be more decent.

In the longer term however, Croatia and Bosnia would need to take rail much more seriously. Slovenia has belatedly started to do so.

 

[FormerBritInMe]

Is there any possibility that the service from Skopje or Sofia to Thessaloniki would resume in 2024?

 

[MarcVD]

Is there any possibility that the service from Skopje or Sofia to Thessaloniki would resume in 2024?

From Sofia it would be nice... and the line is incredibly scenic. I did it in 2015.
From Skopje it would be kind of useless as you can even not get into Beograd for the moment - unless you go via the ferry from Italy and the Bar - Beograd line...

 

[FormerBritInMe]

From Sofia it would be nice... and the line is incredibly scenic. I did it in 2015.
From Skopje it would be kind of useless as you can even not get into Beograd for the moment - unless you go via the ferry from Italy and the Bar - Beograd line...

Unless things change, sounds like I should stick with my original plan of Zurich - Milan - Bari - Ferry to Patras

 

[MarcVD]

Unless things change, sounds like I should stick with my original plan of Zurich - Milan - Bari - Ferry to Patras

Knowing that the Patras line is not operational all the way either...

 

[FormerBritInMe]

Knowing that the Patras line is not operational all the way either...

Yes I am aware you have to use a bus for part of the trip to Athens, according to seat61

 

[popeter45]

any news on when new timetable tickets will go on sale?
got a trip in feb and want to know when to book

 

[AlbertBeale]

any news on when new timetable tickets will go on sale?
got a trip in feb and want to know when to book

Rail Europe allow you to put in for a booking alert on (some at least) routes where none of the timings are yet showing up. (Though annoyingly, if there's just one train already in the system [such as if it's from an operator which has those services loaded longer in advance, and they provide an occasional direct connection], it doesn't give the "alert" option, even in a case where there are quite a few other connections for the same overall journey still waiting to be loaded.)

I'm also needing to book several international connections for journeys soon after the timetable change - so any (informed!) news of what to expect would be helpful.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Usually around mid October isnt it?

 

[30907]

Usually around mid October isnt it?

Yes, for DE/AT/CH/Benelux anyway.

 

[rvdborgt]

Usually around mid October isnt it?

NS have a useful overview:

Schedule 2023/2024 | NS International

New schedule 2023/2024

www.nsinternational.com

 

[k-c-p]

SNCF is already selling tickets for some direct services to Germany. Yesterday, I managed to catch a 39€ fare for Karlruhe-Paris at the beginning of January. (I wanted to register a sales notification and was positively surprises that the train I intended to use was already open for booking).

 

[Austriantrain]

The new night train Warsaw - Vienna - Munich mentioned in a previous thread will have the following timings:

Warsaw W. 18:41. 9:11
Vienna Hbf 4:49/5:03. 23:07/10
Salzburg 7:44/52. 20:26/30
Munich Hbf. 9:59. 18:35

Berlin - Vienna - Graz will now run via Prague and I suspect will get coaches from Warsaw at Breclav with a more humane arrival time in Vienna.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Sep 2023 ==

Also from December 2023, the Carinthian (southern) part of the Koralmbahn opens. There will be hourly services between Klagenfurt and Wolfsberg using the Bleiburg loop, and in the peak accelerated services running throughout (from the new St Paul station) on the HSL.

Two more years until the whole line opens, much improving services from Vienna towards the south (and enabling usable rail Services from Graz for the first time).