If I recall correctly, this was the election where Theresa May was fronting everything, and nobody else knew what was going on. So when social care fell apart, nobody knew what the answer was.
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Keir Starmer and the Labour Party
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If I recall correctly, this was the election where Theresa May was fronting everything, and nobody else knew what was going on. So when social care fell apart, nobody knew what the answer was.
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RailUK Forums
'Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed!' She seemed to be in quite a lot of trouble as soon as those words were uttered.
birchesgreen
Established Member
Ah the good old days of the May Bot, little did we know that this was as good as it was going to get for the next few years.
Could PR be introduced without a referendum since it is such a major change? Last time they tried, they could not secure a majority of the population, and then reneged on an agreement with the Tories that if a referendum was held, they would support the Tories in getting constituency boundaries changed. These boundary changes are only just now taking place, so don't trust the LibDems.
In theory as Parliament is sovereign, there's no requirement to put any changes to the public if you can pass the legislation.
However, as you note it is a fairly major change to alter the method of voting for the Commons, so the most likely concession would be the same as in 2010, that PR is put to a referendum.
One could say that re-joining the single market is the number one way in which the Tory Brexit can be fixed, as a lot of the issues would go away. There doesn't seem to be any particularly good reason for keeping an isolationist position going long-term, once the Johnson-Truss-Sunak years are over.
I can see why Starmer doesn't want to take that line now, as there still seem to be a lot of people who see the EU as a greater foe than Russia for some unbeknown reason, but it's certainly something he should work towards later, perhaps in a 2nd term. Meanwhile in the first term the priority in this area should be to end the "EU as hostile" rhetoric of the past few years, and resume friendly relations. That is the seed which future improvements can be grown from.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Maybe you're forgetting that joining the single market would force us to accept freedom of movement and the likelihood that net migration will therefore start soaring way beyond even its current very high level. That's a can of worms that almost no sensible politician is going to want to (re)open. Plus we've just spent several years working through all the hassle of adjusting to a major change in the UK's trading and regulatory status. Not many politicians are likely to relish the prospect of spending another few years going through all that hassle over again in order to reverse the situation.
Really? That seems pretty implausible to me considering how Russia post-Ukraine-invasion is viewed right across the political spectrum (outside the extremes of left and right). I realise you said 'people' rather than 'politicians' but I can't think of any recent instances where any mainstream politician has said anything to imply that the EU is a greater foe than Russia. I think your claim there requires a bit of evidence.
It was supposed to be a somewhat satirical comment on some of the Farage-supporting lot and their quite extreme attitudes to the EU, and not intended to be taken seriously.
Falcon1200
Established Member
I did not vote Labour when Corbyn was leader, and would not now if he still was. Thankfully however the possibility of him becoming Prime Minister has gone, forever.
75A
Established Member
Sounds like the Remoaners are still alive and kicking.
Funny thing is you have a democratic vote and when your view is rejected you carry on moaning and moaning and moaning, how many years ago was the vote?
Alanko
Member
Name some key ways your life has been improved by Brexit. What can you now do with all our enhanced freedoms and autonomy that you could not do prior?
75A
Established Member
Sorry, but in Northern Ireland Brexit didn't happen, our Politicians wont even talk amongst themselves let alone with those in Westminster.
I would ask that we take it to the Brexit thread if we want to go further down this rabbit hole. Though I note that it's all been done before...
75A
Established Member
Fair enough
Labour introduced a number of elections (elected mayors etc) which were decided proportionally and the Tories have subsequently changed a number of them to fptp. None of this was subject to a referendum.
Yes but they were better ensuring that the democrat will of people who vote Tory is respected and ensuring that Tory candidates have a better chance of winning those elections. Therefore it's okay and does not need to be signed off by the very same electorate whose will has, until now, been unfairly suppressed by the vile Labour scheme to ensure that the elected representative of the people actually has the backing of a majority of that electorate
If Welsh climate change minister Lee Waters is a template for Labours rail policy, we're in for a tough time.
According to Modern Railways:
"it was time to challenge the amount of money rail soaked up for the carbon benefit provided" (rest of the article in the September 2023 journal).
Of course, in true 1970's style it ignores the other benefits rail provides to people.
Where are rail passengers to turn with enemies at every quarter in the political establishment.
Perhaps Lord Sutch would be the better choice afterall ?
According to Modern Railways:
"it was time to challenge the amount of money rail soaked up for the carbon benefit provided" (rest of the article in the September 2023 journal).
Of course, in true 1970's style it ignores the other benefits rail provides to people.
Where are rail passengers to turn with enemies at every quarter in the political establishment.
Perhaps Lord Sutch would be the better choice afterall ?
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
It does but ra
it does but rail has made itself so expensive for infrastructure works its no wonder politicians question it. The industry needs to serious evaluate why things cost so much more than they did.
Well, arguably rail is too expensive everywhere, but the fact that we have a serving Labour minister pushing an anti-rail agenda, rather than suggesting driving down costs, worries me.
Hopefully he'll stay in Wales (we have enough anti-rail establishment here already).
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Rutherglen and Hamilton West:
Labour 58.4% (+24%)
SNP 27.5% (-17%)
Con 3.9% (-11%)
LibDem 2.9% ( -2%)
Green 2.0% (didn't stand in 2019)
I worked out those %'s from the raw figures - they aren't yet up on any other site that I can see offhand, so I hope they are correct.
It looks to me like an extremely good result for Labour and pretty bad for everyone else (with some proviso that there may have been an element of the pro-Unionist vote voting tactically).
www.bbc.co.uk
Labour 58.4% (+24%)
SNP 27.5% (-17%)
Con 3.9% (-11%)
LibDem 2.9% ( -2%)
Green 2.0% (didn't stand in 2019)
I worked out those %'s from the raw figures - they aren't yet up on any other site that I can see offhand, so I hope they are correct.
It looks to me like an extremely good result for Labour and pretty bad for everyone else (with some proviso that there may have been an element of the pro-Unionist vote voting tactically).
How Labour swept the SNP aside... in two minutes
The BBC’s Kirsten Campbell explains the significance of the result in Rutherglen and Hamilton West's by-election.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Butts
Veteran Member
37.19% turnout compared to 65.5% at the 2019 General Election
Quite amusing to think in Scotland at the moment Labour and the SNP are led by Sarwar and Yousaf respectively who both went to the same Public School (Hutcheson's Grammar School in Glasgow), whilst the Tory Leader Douglas Ross went to Forres Academy. (A state school)
nlogax
Established Member
A good result to wake up to. SNP turnout (or lack thereof) has played a major part here. Based on this I imagine a lot of Scotland will be returning to red next year and a lot of Tory candidates will be losing their deposits.
Wynd
Member
This result does tell us something, but a 37% turnout does undermine any conclusions somewhat.
A lot of SNP voters didnt bother and its striking that the torys lost their deposit, falling 11%.
A lot of SNP voters didnt bother and its striking that the torys lost their deposit, falling 11%.
By election turnouts are always lower than General Elections. That'll bounce back to the mid-60s no doubt in the next General Election.37.19% turnout compared to 65.5% at the 2019 General Election
Cross City
Member
Does it? That's probably around, if not slightly above average turnout for a by-election.
Butts
Veteran Member
Tactical Voting ?
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
If SNP fortunes don't improve over the next year, this result also gives the LibDems a very good chance of reclaiming their status as the 3rd party in Westminster. And it goes a long way to neutering any chance the Tories have of reusing the 'vote Labour get SNP' campaigning tactic from 2015 (I'm paraphrasing - I don't think they used those exact words, but as I recall it seemed to be quite a successful strategy for scaring some people off voting Labour).
Wynd
Member
Tactical Voting for sure! Unionism now backs the horse with the best odds regardless of if its blue or red, as shown in 2019.
To tighten up the statement, 37% turnout undermines the level of jubilation displayed by Sarwar and co, as it isnt a straight translation in to a UK Election, where turnout should be significantly higher.
Labour will take great heart, they have been in the abyss since 2014, and they do appear to be on to win some more seats in Scotland.
To tighten up the statement, 37% turnout undermines the level of jubilation displayed by Sarwar and co, as it isnt a straight translation in to a UK Election, where turnout should be significantly higher.
Labour will take great heart, they have been in the abyss since 2014, and they do appear to be on to win some more seats in Scotland.
Oh well, happens. Plenty of Tories around with a privileged upbringing, look at Sunak for example.
And Braverman attacking the self-made Elton John, who lived in a council house and went to a state school, just because he's pro-immigration is plenty of evidence that the Tories don't respect those who bring themselves up from humble beginnings all the time - only when it suits them. It's good to be a self-made person from humble beginnings, according to the Tories, it seems - but only if you are right-wing and not liberal. So Elton John no, Lee Anderson yes.
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