Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[Rhysdabeast]

730202 heading back to Old Dalby today hauled by 37608 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K05919/2023-09-06/detailed

 

[The_Train]

Have 101 and 103 now had their numbers changed over?

 

[JonnySeagull]

I managed to get a couple of photos of 730202 (and 37608) stopped outside Melton before it headed for Old Dalby.

 

[45076]

730205 and 730206 are both visible from London road. They are parked with 720138 between the buildings at Litchurch Lane. Binoculars are required.

 

[JW4]

Seen 730012 and 730019 at Soho and 730006, 730007 and 730013 on the entry to Crewe

 

[DJH1971]

Seen 730012 and 730019 at Soho and 730006, 730007 and 730013 on the entry to Crewe

Saw them to going to Birmingham

 

[Elecman]

Seen 730012 and 730019 at Soho and 730006, 730007 and 730013 on the entry to Crewe

I’m sure 730022 was there too

 

[JW4]

I’m sure 730022 was there too

Might be, but not visible for me

 

[DJH1971]

Whilst on a Liverpool to Birmingham service this morning, I noted a poster by LNWR/WMR at Smethwick Galton Bridge station out of the window stating new trains coming soon.

Not sure how soon though.

 

[JonnySeagull]

730030 and 730031 were taken to Old Dalby by 37510 'Orion' yesterday.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Whilst on a Liverpool to Birmingham service this morning, I noted a poster by LNWR/WMR at Smethwick Galton Bridge station out of the window stating new trains coming soon.

Not sure how soon though.

That will be the 196s posters

 

[Inthewest]

12 car 350 working will be in place on weekends probably from December, trials have been done and the word from LLCs is that it has been demanded from the DfT and as there is no physical reason not to have them, LNR have no option but to implement it with a method of working still to be finalised.

One physical reason is you cannot UDS from a 12 coach down to a 4 coach.

Unless the shorter platforms at Atherstone and Rugeley are extended, I can't see how they will get around this issue without some sort of upgrade from Siemens, if that's even possible.


EDIT: To explain, there is no physical barrier but it's not permitted in the sense that it's not permitted running 16-coach trains. Possible (if you have a swinger) but not permitted. I only quote what is currently available, rather than what could happen. Just like I don't know any unit that can't go anywhere, but many aren't permitted because the paperwork hasn't been done, and thus, it's a no go.

 

[childwallblues]

Have the 730s at Arriva Crewe changed or is it still 006 007 013 plus one other please?

 

[Bletchleyite]

One physical reason is you cannot UDS from a 12 coach down to a 4 coach.

Fairly sure I've seen 12 UDSed down to 4 at Bletchley P6 (possibly once ever!)

I think also at Bushey on the down fast of a Saturday evening?

But presumably if for some reason you now can't, local door would work for the small number of stations affected.

 

[Silverlinky]

UDS 12 to 4 was not permitted unless in a degraded situation. Testing has though taken place over a number of weekends now as part of plans/demands for extra capacity on the Trent Valley Line. A method of working will be written, and risk assessments will be carried out and then it will be used as there is no technical issue with the trains being able to work like this.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

One physical reason is you cannot UDS from a 12 coach down to a 4 coach.

Unless the shorter platforms at Atherstone and Rugeley are extended, I can't see how they will get around this issue without some sort of upgrade from Siemens, if that's even possible.

Yes you can. Siemens say so, and we've had H&S and train crew testing it over the past few months.

It works. Whether it's he right move, or whether it's practical is another question. But that's what the DfT want

 

[Bletchleyite]

UDS 12 to 4 was not permitted unless in a degraded situation.

I suspect running into Bletchley P6 from the north (due to multiple points failures) did fulfil that description. May well have happened only once ever, and I boarded it. Front 4 only, and arrived via the Up Bletchley line which is barely used. May not even be possible now as the whole layout there has changed.

I'm almost certain I've seen it at Bushey on the down fast too, I guess it was when a train was unexpectedly moved slow to fast due to some sort of incident.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2023 ==

Yes you can. Siemens say so, and we've had H&S and train crew testing it over the past few months.

It works. Whether it's he right move, or whether it's practical is another question. But that's what the DfT want

Presumably it'll be 10.730 before too long anyway?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I suspect running into Bletchley P6 from the north (due to multiple points failures) did fulfil that description. May well have happened only once ever, and I boarded it. Front 4 only, and arrived via the Up Bletchley line which is barely used. May not even be possible now as the whole layout there has changed.

I'm almost certain I've seen it at Bushey on the down fast too, I guess it was when a train was unexpectedly moved slow to fast due to some sort of incident.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2023 ==



Presumably it'll be 10.730 before too long anyway?

Interesting, with the current method of working the guard wouldn't have permission to UDS a 12 on the Down Fast at Bushey so that may have ended with an interesting conversation if that was reported! But I'd understand the reason for doing it.

Fingers crossed the 730s arrive in the new year, though it's the method of working that I'm keeping an eye out for. Working platforms like Lichfield on the Down etc, with station furniture and pillars obstructing

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fingers crossed the 730s arrive in the new year, though it's the method of working that I'm keeping an eye out for. Working platforms like Lichfield on the Down etc, with station furniture and pillars obstructing

Presumably 730s will have full ASDO rather than UDS? Though of course that doesn't mean you wouldn't need to work out the safe working approach with obstructions.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Presumably 730s will have full ASDO rather than UDS? Though of course that doesn't mean you wouldn't need to work out the safe working approach with obstructions.

That's what I'm led to believe, which will be a massive improvement on UDS (IMO)

 

[185]

That's what I'm led to believe, which will be a massive improvement on UDS (IMO)

Disagree. UDS is clunky and basic but generally works.

Hear from guards at another TOC it's known as ASBO.

Reliability is questionable, due to it's complexities, I'm told it's dependant on driver setting up the right headcode & sequencing the correct unit length, and whether the thing chooses to work. Seems to also fail a lot in the DOO areas down south.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Disagree. UDS is clunky and basic but generally works.

Hear from guards at another TOC it's known as ASBO.

Reliability is questionable, due to it's complexities, I'm told it's dependant on driver setting up the right headcode & sequencing the correct unit length, and whether the thing chooses to work. Seems to also fail a lot in the DOO areas down south.

I've never worked with ASDO before, but comparing UDS to SDO I much prefer SDO and it's flexibility. Having many doors accommodated on platforms that can't be used due to not all of a unit fitting on is very poor from a customer's perspective. Somewhere like Smethwick Galton Bridge where 7 of 8 cars fit (350), but only front 4 can be used causes issues pretty much every time. (A)SDO doesn't have that issue.

You would hope that newer units weren't going to suffer from issues such as those, but I'm sure there's truth in its accuracy being linked to properly being set up - which has been an issue on every traction I've signed so far! So we shall see.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never worked with ASDO before, but comparing UDS to SDO I much prefer SDO and it's flexibility. Having many doors accommodated on platforms that can't be used due to not all of a unit fitting on is very poor from a customer's perspective. Somewhere like Smethwick Galton Bridge where 7 of 8 cars fit (350), but only front 4 can be used causes issues pretty much every time. (A)SDO doesn't have that issue.

Would be more of an issue with 730s, too, given that the units are 120m long. One door can't be accommodated and you would have to lock a whole unit out. At least they're gangwayed.

I was quite impressed a while back to find that the 80x are by door, so you can release only one door on a vehicle, rather than by whole vehicle.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Would be more of an issue with 730s, too, given that the units are 120m long. One door can't be accommodated and you would have to lock a whole unit out. At least they're gangwayed.

I was quite impressed a while back to find that the 80x are by door, so you can release only one door on a vehicle, rather than by whole vehicle.

Like I say, the main plus point for me is it would minimise the number of doors on platforms that won't open compared to now. Hopefully it is on a door-by-door basis as per SDO on 172s etc.

 

[Inthewest]

Yes you can. Siemens say so, and we've had H&S and train crew testing it over the past few months.

It works. Whether it's he right move, or whether it's practical is another question. But that's what the DfT want

Who in Siemens? I'll double check with the Siemens engineer - they sit opposite me, although currently away from their desk.

Siemens are fitting ASDO (and associated mods) but it is not currently operational. The first unit with the mods is 350401 with additional switches in the cabs.

 

[Russel]

For those of us not in the know, what is UDS?

 

[AJDesiro]

For those of us not in the know, what is UDS?

Unit Deselect. It’s a ‘lite’ version of selective door operation on the 350s, which stops the doors opening on units that don’t fully occupy the platforms, so when a unit is on a short platform, at least 4 coaches will have their doors locked out of use, while most SDO systems can do it on a carriage by carriage or door by door basis.

 

[Russel]

Unit Deselect. It’s a ‘lite’ version of selective door operation on the 350s, which stops the doors opening on units that don’t fully occupy the platforms, so when a unit is on a short platform, at least 4 coaches will have their doors locked out of use, while most SDO systems can do it on a carriage by carriage or door by door basis.

Ah, so the system currently used for 8 car sets at Atherstone etc, so where is the issue with using it with 12 car sets?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Ah, so the system currently used for 8 car sets at Atherstone etc, so where is the issue with using it with 12 car sets?

You might be able to fit the front 7 coaches of 12 on a platform but with UDS only the doors on the front four coaches (one whole unit) will open. That is 8 coaches (2nd and 3rd units) where no door opens. Similar for 8 car services where the doors on the 2nd unit will have to stay closed - but less of a dramatic restriction.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Is this how the services will be operated? I can understand why the 730/0 order was increased to 48. 36 probably would have not been enough.

Class 350
Euston - Birmingham
Birmingham - Crewe
Watford - St Albans

Class 730/0
Wolverhampton - Walsall
Birmingham International - Rugeley
Litchfield - Bromsgrove
Four Oaks - Redditch

Class 730/2
Euston - Tring/Milton Keynes
Euston - Crewe
Birmingham - Liverpool

I understood that the 730/2s are to be used on the routes with long-distance passengers, so Euston - Crewe and Birmingham - Liverpool fits the logic - but the, why also the all stations Euston - Tring/Milton K ??? Or is it just that there won't enough 350s (after the /2s have gone, obviously) to cover them.