Usually when new regulations come into play, companies adopt them ahead of time. I can't see anyone delaying their plans just because the UK has said something that could be changed back with a change of Government. All this does is give some petrolheads false hope, and allow the media to further attack EVs by saying 'See? The Government has realised EVs aren't the future'.
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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Right wing papers lie to incite bad feeling. Who'd have thunk it?
A "brand new petrol and diesel car sales ban" is an accurate description if they didn't want to be inciting arguments as they do.
It’s not even that, it’s a ‘ban on brand new cars powered only by petrol or diesel’, as hybrids will still be saleable until 2035.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Fair point.
Either way it's not a "petrol car ban", and I'm sure the Daily Heil knows that all too well in trying to cause controversy and hate.
I wish the refuseniks would just try one. I was adamant that electric cars were utterly impractical, never having one etc. Then I hired an i3 for a couple of days and was blown away (and that's not a particularly good EV). We've replaced both of our cars for EVs and will never ever go back to petrol or diesel.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Many of us aren't to be fair "refuseniks" but rather believe the charging network isn't quite up to the job yet (nor is the range of cars, nor the used market). I'm certain I'll own (or lease) an EV at some point, but now think it won't likely be my next car but rather the one after, unless (and the decision point is probably fairly soon) I decide to keep the Kuga longer-term and basically run it down to scrap rather than my usual "buy 2-3 years old, sell 6-7 years old" policy. But if doing that with a last ICE I'd probably prefer a petrol, as diesels are likely to be increasingly deprecated.
I'm absolutely certain it'll be a better experience to actually drive, though - smoother, quicker off the mark and with no faffing with gears.
Seriously, just try one and take it on a long journey. You'll wonder what all the fuss was about!
Obviously a ten year old Leaf isn't the right car for a long journey, just as a Tesla Model X isn't the right car for a city runabout. Something Like a Tesla model 3, Kia EV6, Hyundai Ionic 5, Audi/Cupra/VW range, MG 4, MG 5 and maybe even Jaguar IPace (very cheap used compared to as new price) as all sensible cars that are very easy to live with. Bit cheaper are Kia Niro, Hyundai Kona and the MG ZS which are all perfectly capable and decent enough range in large battery variants but a bit slower to charge.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'd consider hiring one to try out in that way but for one thing - hire companies won't guarantee what vehicle you will get. I'm very tall and very broad, and so limited to cars I fit, which is not always intuitive because it has mostly to do with the shape of the dash and adjustability of the steering wheel.
Though I should note that under no circumstances whatsoever will I give Elon Musk or any business he owns any money. So Tesla is right out.
And that is just the SALE of new cars, not the use of existing ones - which will continue for decades more, albeit with fewer fuelling stations and the cost of fuel quite likely a small fortune.. but for people wanting to keep their classic car, they will be able to do so.
But people believe 15 minute cities are about cutting off roads and not allowing people to drive outside their home town, so it's pretty easy to write misleading headlines and fool people.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You don't even need those conspiracies when one poster upthread thinks it's disadvantageous to have a selection of shops and local facilities within 15 minutes' walk. The mind utterly boggles as to how anyone can think that - that's beyond car-dependency, that's car-brainwashing.
I'm not a refusenik, but they do not make financial sense for me. I'm a very low mileage as I do not commute by car, so there's no opportunity for cheaper 'fuel' prices to outweigh the higher cost of purchase.
When I bought 3 years ago the only reasonably priced used EVs were Nissan Leafs, which are garbage. Hopefully by the time I'm ready to change my car the current crop of EVs will have filtered through into a decent second hand market.
Define very low milage. Anything less than 5,000 miles and the average weekly mileage is likely to be under 100 miles (of course if the car is only used every other weekend as that'll shift the journeys undertaken to be longer).
Arguably, someone doing (say) 3,000 miles a year (60 miles a week) then Leafs could be a reasonable vehicle.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The lack of a decent used market is one key factor. It'll take one more "generation" of pretty much all fleet cars being EVs to filter that through so it's as good as it is for ICE cars. Not all of us are happy to take PCPs or leases (I tend to treat car interiors badly, so this would be very costly for me in paying extra fees) and new is too expensive for hire purchase or a personal loan, particularly now interest rates are up.
(The likes of Cazoo, Cinch and the car supermarkets tend to sell ex-fleet mostly).
2035 instead of 2030 probably makes sense to align with the rest of Europe. But really I don't see what this changes. No manufacturer is changing anything because of what we decide. As mentioned on this thread previously the ban is for manufacturers not consumers and many will gradually wind down the amount of new ICE cars over the coming years anyway. You'll struggle to find many ICE cars to buy new in 2030 even with this announcement
Alfa-Romeo - All electric by 2027
Bentley - 2030
Fiat - 2030
Ford - 2030
Jaguar - 2025
Mini - 2030
Peugeot - 2030
Renault - 2030
Vauxhall - 2028
Nissan - 2030
VW - 2033
And even then the bulk of their range will be electric with only one or two models ICE
Alfa-Romeo - All electric by 2027
Bentley - 2030
Fiat - 2030
Ford - 2030
Jaguar - 2025
Mini - 2030
Peugeot - 2030
Renault - 2030
Vauxhall - 2028
Nissan - 2030
VW - 2033
And even then the bulk of their range will be electric with only one or two models ICE
The money stolen from the motorist will go to cover his mismanagement of TfL.
I am not sure that there will be a clear point of difference as Starmer is likely to support the policy move.
renegademaster
Established Member
The postponement is just bringing UK into harmony with EU law
DustyBin
Established Member
This delay was inevitable as I've asserted on numerous occasions. What we've seen however is a large scale shift in both the automotive industry and consumer habits, which was (in my opinion) the intention all along.
As I stated the other day in the Electric planes thread, at some point climate policy (and politics) will collide with reality, and this is exactly what we're seeing. The danger is that the whole issue becomes a political football, as there are a number of climate and/or emissions related policies that absolutely are worth pursuing.
As I stated the other day in the Electric planes thread, at some point climate policy (and politics) will collide with reality, and this is exactly what we're seeing. The danger is that the whole issue becomes a political football, as there are a number of climate and/or emissions related policies that absolutely are worth pursuing.
Why was it inevitable though? The previous date at which the only new car you could buy was an EV was 2035 and (correct me if I’m wrong) from everything I’ve read so far today the date at which the only new car you can buy is an EV is 2035. Sale of ICE powered vehicles was allowed anyway until 2035. So all this has done has introduced potential uncertainty and instability into the industry, and a vertical cliff face for users, instead of a potential more gentle transition with hybrids for those where it is a genuine issue to charge.
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Err, he hasn’t, and is sticking with 2030.
Plenty of time to flip flop on that.
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It is unpopular and a vote loser.
If that’s true it shows that a) the public simply don’t understand the policy (change) has I illustrated above and b) given that it was a Tory policy which they put in place and which they have failed to enable, it illustrates exactly why folk should vote for someone else.
DustyBin
Established Member
I think the law relating to hybrids was a bit of a fudge to be honest, much like the cars themselves are in my opinion (I'll admit that they do have their advantages in some situations though).
I agree with you in regard to the uncertainty this causes, but perhaps the real issue was introducing a completely unrealistic deadline in the first place?
It will be interesting to see whether this materially affects what manufacturers bring to the market. EVs are now mainstream so probably not, although we may see some manufacturers roll out one more generation of ICE models than we otherwise would have. If ICE cars make up (say) 20% of total new car sales by (say) 2028 I could see the ban being postponed further, or even abolished altogether to be honest (disregarding other factors, such as a sudden breakthrough in synthetic fuel technology). That's not to say there'll be an ICE "comeback" though; most if not all run of the mill cars will be EVs eventually.
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If he had had my vote, this policy change would indeed cause him to lose mine.
Call me Mr Cynical but two here are two possible real reasons for Sunak's delay -
Installation of public EV chargers is falling behind the government plan and/or what they realise is required.
Linked to this is the need for adequate capacity in the national grid. Two potential shortfalls are rural areas and service areas along motorways and major routes.
The loss of duty and VAT from diesel and petrol because there is not even a defined plan to replace duty plus VAT from charging from a shared source being 5% instead of 20%.
I think likewise as the manufacturers need a return from their investment in EV production ASAP.
Installation of public EV chargers is falling behind the government plan and/or what they realise is required.
Linked to this is the need for adequate capacity in the national grid. Two potential shortfalls are rural areas and service areas along motorways and major routes.
The loss of duty and VAT from diesel and petrol because there is not even a defined plan to replace duty plus VAT from charging from a shared source being 5% instead of 20%.
In today’s news, Rishi Sunak announces a potential 5-year delay of the 2030 ICE ban.
Rishi Sunak considers weakening key green policies
Plans could include delaying a ban on sales of new petrol cars and the phasing out of gas boilers.www.bbc.co.uk
Personally I can’t see how an extension to the 2030 deadline will make any difference, since I imagine most car manufacturers will have stopped their ICE production lines by then anyway.
I think likewise as the manufacturers need a return from their investment in EV production ASAP.
Why not get one over Elon and take a Tesla for an overnight test drive? All EVs drive pretty much the same anyway. And Tesla showrooms don't employ people on commission so there's none of the usual sales patter and pressure selling techniques. And you'll be able to supercharge it for nothing. When I test drove one they just gave me the keycard, explained how to put it into gear and open the charge flap and that was that. Took it back the next day, asked how I found it and asked if I wanted to see what was in inventory "No thanks, I want to have a look at some other options too before I decide anything". "No problem, you know where we are if you need us".
Or arrange one with Genesis who do some larger vehicles without being absurdly big like the Tesla model X. The GV60 and GV70 are lovely cars. I think Hyundai will also offer extended test drives of the Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6.
One thing I will say is that anything built on an EV platform is way more spacious than the equivalent sized ICE vehicle.
Just for clarity; i mean the 2030 policy is a vote loser.
If people begin to think the deadline will just keep getting pushed back, why would companies invest in installing EV charging facilities?
I expect companies will realise the benefits and do so anyway, but creating such uncertainty is pretty stupid and especially so when the car makers tell you the same thing.
I expect companies will realise the benefits and do so anyway, but creating such uncertainty is pretty stupid and especially so when the car makers tell you the same thing.