Venice to Paris - alternative transport reimbursement

[NeilCr]

I don’t know all the details yet but wonder if someone can give me any general thoughts/advice

A friend was booked to travel by train from Paris to Venice on Wednesday. I understand that there have been some landslides etc which make the journey impossible/very difficult. She is travelling with her sister and they have decided to now go by air

They were booked through Trainline. She has been in contact with them and they have told her that she will have to claim back for the tickets through the individual train companies

As I say I am aware that not all the information is here. I’ll be able to get the rest at some stage if necessary but is it at all possible to comment on whether or not the refunds (if applicable) should come from Trainline or the companies

My friend’s initial thoughts are that as she booked through Trainline she’d expect to be dealing directly with them

Neither she nor I are experts on this though!

Thanks in advance for any insights

 

[methecooldude]

I don’t know all the details yet but wonder if someone can give me any general thoughts/advice

A friend was booked to travel by train from Paris to Venice on Wednesday. I understand that there have been some landslides etc which make the journey impossible/very difficult. She is travelling with her sister and they have decided to now go by air

They were booked through Trainline. She has been in contact with them and they have told her that she will have to claim back for the tickets through the individual train companies

As I say I am aware that not all the information is here. I’ll be able to get the rest at some stage if necessary but is it at all possible to comment on whether or not the refunds (if applicable) should come from Trainline or the companies

My friend’s initial thoughts are that as she booked through Trainline she’d expect to be dealing directly with them

Neither she nor I are experts on this though!

Thanks in advance for any insights

This is outside of the framework for refunds that UK TOCs have to follow, you are also posted on the "RailUK Forums". Although someone might be able to help you here, you are really posting in the wrong place

 

[NeilCr]

Fair enough

My apologies. Hopefully a mod will be able to move this to the right place

And sorry for any extra work mods!

 

[30907]

Fair enough

My apologies. Hopefully a mod will be able to move this to the right place

And sorry for any extra work mods!

This seems to be the right sub-forum now!

I can't, unfortunately, answer the question nor comment on Trainline's policy, but I have had to reroute myself so have some sympathy! The alternative routes through Switzerland are 2-3 hours slower so I can understand them flying

However, they should (one way or another) be able to get a full refund for the Paris-Milan section as the train has been cancelled by the operator, whether French TGV or Italian Frecciarossa. What happens to the Milan-Venice section operated by Trenitalia will depend on the particular ticket rules.

I hope some reader will know more.

(According to EU rules they were entitled to be rerouted - through Switzerland not by air! - at no cost, but the operators are apparently claiming "force majeure." As in the UK, the EU rule seems to be ignored...)

 

[NeilCr]

This seems to be the right sub-forum now!

I can't, unfortunately, answer the question nor comment on Trainline's policy, but I have had to reroute myself so have some sympathy! The alternative routes through Switzerland are 2-3 hours slower so I can understand them flying

However, they should (one way or another) be able to get a full refund for the Paris-Milan section as the train has been cancelled by the operator, whether French TGV or Italian Frecciarossa. What happens to the Milan-Venice section operated by Trenitalia will depend on the particular ticket rules.

I hope some reader will know more.

(According to EU rules they were entitled to be rerouted - through Switzerland not by air! - at no cost, but the operators are apparently claiming "force majeure." As in the UK, the EU rule seems to be ignored...)

Thank you!

They’ve (with the help of another friend) found a train route back but, as you suggest, want as much time in Venice as possible

I think my friend wasn’t really expecting any instant refunds - she thought it wouldn’t happen until after the day of travel, anyway, but was surprised by Trainline’s response

 

[Watershed]

According to EU rules they were entitled to be rerouted - through Switzerland not by air!

It's not necessarily the case that re-routing must be by rail. If the journey time extension by taking alternative rail routes is significant and adds (several) changes, this wouldn't necessarily comply with the obligation for the re-routing to be "at the earliest opportunity" and "subject to comparable transport conditions". In reality, clearly no rail operator is going to rebook you onto an airline and so it would have to be a case of making your own arrangements and then (trying to) claim back the cost. Clearly not a process that the rail operators are likely to make easy!

at no cost, but the operators are apparently claiming "force majeure." As in the UK, the EU rule seems to be ignored...

The claimed existence of "force majeure" has no bearing on operators' obligations when it comes to re-routing - only on delay compensation, since the anti-passenger change to the PRO that took effect in the EU earlier this year. The obligation to re-route the passenger (and the 'duty of care' requiring refreshments, and if necessary overnight accommodation, to be provided) applies regardless of the whys and wherefores of the disruption; this position is longstanding and common across all of the EU Regulations that apply to different modes of transport.

But as you say, enforcement by national bodies is effectively non-existent, and operators either omit to tell passengers about their rights, or explicitly lie to passengers and tell them their only option is a refund. Trenitalia seem to have adopted the latter policy in respect of their open access Paris service, as has been documented on Twitter and elsewhere. It's shameful when Ryanair treats their customers better than the railway...

 

[fandroid]

Although the point about the operator's obligations to re-route is a valid one, the OP asked about refunds. Is Trainline correct to point the purchasers at the operators or should Trainline themselves provide the refund?

 

[farci]

There is a rail equivalent of EC261 for compensation. Would that not apply?
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/rail/index_en.htm

 

[Watershed]

There is a rail equivalent of EC261 for compensation. Would that not apply?
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/rail/index_en.htm

Following industry lobbying, the entitlement to delay compensation was watered down when the Regulation was amended in 2021 (the amendments took effect in the EU earlier this year - but the PRO remains unchanged in the UK, at least for now). Compensation is thus no longer payable under "extraordinary circumstances" - similar to the exemption which the airline industry enjoys uinder EU261.

You can be almost certain that any attempt at getting compensation will be denied on the purported basis of such extraordinary circumstances.

 

[farci]

Thanks for detailed reply

 

[NeilCr]

Just to update on this

Trainline arranged the refund for SNCF which my friend has received

She had to deal directly with Trenitalia (not sure why). They’ve acknowledged her claim with a generic message about being very busy