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Transport for Wales Class 230

pokemonsuper9

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20 Dec 2022
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4,638
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Greater Manchester
Thank you so much for a quick reply, Ill have a ride over there then, thank you.
In the morning they'll be on RTT, if on the right any carriage numbers say "3" that'll be a 230, the times are for Upton but it can easily be changed (although Bidston, Shotton and Wrexham General will show other trains too)
 
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DLAYKEGER

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21 Mar 2023
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120
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Heswall
You have to ask why TFW actually publish timetables for the Wrexham Bidston line. The schedulrd 16:36 is now the scheduled 16:47 and is apparently on time on the screens at Bidston (even though 11min after the time on the paper timetable). Realise this is for the 230 swap, but not one mention.on their website or any physical timetables showing this change. Meanwhile perplexed passengers had the Bidston bound train (going out of service) on the wrong platform and many thought this was their train in the Wrexham bound direction. We finally left at 16:53., apparently slightly late
 

Wyrleybart

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29 Mar 2020
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2,633
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South Staffordshire
You have to ask why TFW actually publish timetables for the Wrexham Bidston line.
Well yes. Particularly as the technical performance abilities of 230s have been known about for 2-3 years, and they were planned to be introduced, and were introduced in the May timetable.
The schedulrd 16:36 is now the scheduled 16:47 and is apparently on time on the screens at Bidston (even though 11min after the time on the paper timetable). Realise this is for the 230 swap, but not one mention.on their website or any physical timetables showing this change. Meanwhile perplexed passengers had the Bidston bound train (going out of service) on the wrong platform and many thought this was their train in the Wrexham bound direction. We finally left at 16:53., apparently slightly late
Not sure when the lunchtime swap was planned, but I am pretty sure that could have been an STP amendment by the planners for a few weeks as would be the traincrew diagrams. The planners easily slip in STP amendments each week to cover engineering work on parts of routes, so amending two stock diagrams and four crew diagrams shouldn't be too much of an issue IMHO.
 

DLAYKEGER

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Joined
21 Mar 2023
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120
Location
Heswall
" ... so amending two stock diagrams and four crew diagrams shouldn't be too much of an issue IMHO.
[/QUOTE]

But this change has not been communicated to passengers and to then say the train is on time when compared to the published timetable is somewhat a big fib as it is changing the goalpists. I personally thought at first, they had cancelled the train as the next train indicator just showed Merseyrail services to West Kirby when I looked at the platform screens. TFW have lots a lot of trust on this service and when pasengers try to get on the wrong train, a 230 that comes into the station at a time which is close to the published timetable that compounds the issue. Many irregular passengers may not be expecting 2 x 230 to be running into Bidston within such a short period. Normally we only see one TFW train per hour at Bidston so people not knowing about the swap would be very much in the dark.
 

Invincible

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23 Apr 2022
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Surrey

Cambrian359

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17 Jun 2018
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303
Is this the track work?
Am I missing something? Having read the article twice now how does work between Wrexham general and Wrexham central (isnt this bit self contained?) improve reliability between Wrexham general and Chester? As the article suggests
 

rich.davies

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18 Apr 2011
Messages
169
Location
Wrexham
Am I missing something? Having read the article twice now how does work between Wrexham general and Wrexham central (isnt this bit self contained?) improve reliability between Wrexham general and Chester? As the article suggests
Working on the track where platform 3 at General is perhaps? Other than that, i have no idea.
 

DLAYKEGER

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21 Mar 2023
Messages
120
Location
Heswall
Says on TFW twitter they have a lack of drivers on Borderlands and Heart of Wales line. The new manager to sort out the line issues seems doing a great job by the look of it. A few weeks later we get prioritsation of other lines like we saw with the 175 debacle.
 

L401CJF

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16 Oct 2019
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Wirral
Working on the track where platform 3 at General is perhaps? Other than that, i have no idea.
The recent work has been replacing the points on the mainline between the signalbox and General station meaning the Borderlands line cannot be accessed from the Wrexham end. No work been going on between General and Central that I know of (however geographically speaking the mainline is between the 2 locations!).

The replacement of jointed track at the Bidston end still hasn't been done, it's still in place for half the way between Bidston and Upton in the Up (wrexham) direction whereas the rest was replaced last year. Sleepers have been positioned alongside the line ready for months but no sign of the work happening yet.
 

CaergwrleKen

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Joined
2 Oct 2019
Messages
162
Location
Caergwrle
This last week has been a bit of a mess again on the Borderlands with constant late running and trips missed or run non stop with the 230. There was in issue with the 150 one day where it had to be taken out of service but there was nothing wrong with it, 150240 had been out every day for a couple of weeks solid and the train crew said it had to go back to Cardiff. Some of the crews aren’t very happy because they keep getting blamed for all the problems and delays but from what i can see they always try to keep things going especially the station staff at General but their hands are tied by Cardiff.
 

OutdoorM

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9 Aug 2022
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43
Location
Wirral
This last week has been a bit of a mess again on the Borderlands with constant late running and trips missed or run non stop with the 230. There was in issue with the 150 one day where it had to be taken out of service but there was nothing wrong with it, 150240 had been out every day for a couple of weeks solid and the train crew said it had to go back to Cardiff. Some of the crews aren’t very happy because they keep getting blamed for all the problems and delays but from what i can see they always try to keep things going especially the station staff at General but their hands are tied by Cardiff.
Its not the staff's fault and any grief is wrong, but the line is losing a lot of goodwill and passengers are using other means where possible
 

CaergwrleKen

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2 Oct 2019
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162
Location
Caergwrle
It's been (almost) a couple of weeks; how are our favourite ;))) trains?

Nothing has changed, the 230 is still running mostly with delays that gets later and later during the day, as we speak its running 15 minutes late and going to miss Central out, still having problems with doors, air conditioning, power unit/batteries.

We are at the September timetable change today and it looks like there is still no improvement, the 230 can still only be trusted to do half a day swapping over at 1630. We still have to rely on the 150 to do all the work.
 

Steve B

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Joined
23 Sep 2011
Messages
82
Without minimising what @CaergwrleKen is saying (yes the 230's have not improved remarkably) it should also be noted that on somedays the 150 has also had it's problems.

I don't use the line everyday, but I do so at least once a month - last week's visit had me, 8.30ish in the morning, on a delayed 150 from Wrexham (reason "problem with the traction") whilst the 230 was running to time then, whilst on my return trip in the afternoon I was on a delayed 230 (reason not stated) that got further delayed by almost 10 minutes at Hope and Caergwrle due to the conductor dealing with fare dodging school kids. I'm just mentioning this as not all delays are down to the 230's themselves.

One thing that I've noticed though is that 230010 seems to have not been out for quite a while, whilst 007, 008 and 009 have been doing all the work. Am I clutching at straws in the hope that some alterations are being made to try and improve things, or am I being overly optimistic?
 

CaergwrleKen

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2 Oct 2019
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Caergwrle
Without minimising what @CaergwrleKen is saying (yes the 230's have not improved remarkably) it should also be noted that on somedays the 150 has also had it's problems.

I don't use the line everyday, but I do so at least once a month - last week's visit had me, 8.30ish in the morning, on a delayed 150 from Wrexham (reason "problem with the traction") whilst the 230 was running to time then, whilst on my return trip in the afternoon I was on a delayed 230 (reason not stated) that got further delayed by almost 10 minutes at Hope and Caergwrle due to the conductor dealing with fare dodging school kids. I'm just mentioning this as not all delays are down to the 230's themselves.

One thing that I've noticed though is that 230010 seems to have not been out for quite a while, whilst 007, 008 and 009 have been doing all the work. Am I clutching at straws in the hope that some alterations are being made to try and improve things, or am I being overly optimistic?

Yes clutching at straws unfortunately. 230010 is parked outside Birkenhead North out of service.

The 150 has been performing normally just loses the odd couple of minutes here and there but sometimes makes it back up, one day last week it was late in the morning maybe the day you mention because according to the station staff it was left in Wrexham siding overnight with the windows open and had been infested with mosquitos so needed cleaning
 

DLAYKEGER

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21 Mar 2023
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Location
Heswall
Air conditioning not working properly was a major issue on the 4.30pm ish 230 coming out of Birkenhead North Depot last week. It was so hot I was glad I was only on the train for 2 stops. With no opening windows it was very hot. Hopefully the AC kicked in later on route
 

leomartin125

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15 Nov 2015
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North West
Was on 230009 today and on its final run of the day (1430 into Bidston), it got stuck at Hawarden. Guard said that the driver reported a fuel leak. After a full reset of the unit, we were underway to Bidston and train went to depot as planned - just lucky it happened on its final diagram I suppose!

Ironically this was my first time experiencing the 230, so a great first impression!
 
Joined
1 Dec 2022
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192
Location
Lancashire
I spent most of the day on the Borderlands line yesterday, hopping on and off both the 230 and the 150, making some (small) observations. [Just for reference, I travelled on 150250 3 times, 230008 4 times and 230009 1 time.]

I'll start with the most prominent observation... Both units were running late. The 230 was at its latest running 19 minutes late, while the 150 ran 26 minutes late [from what I witnessed while checking RTT to see how the train was progressing while waiting on the platforms throughout the day]. Both trains had their services cancelled between Wrexham General and Central at least once to try and make up some time, however, it didn't really make a difference because of how late they were running. There were no reasons given on board any of the services that I boarded as to why the trains were running so late, however, the tight turnaround times at both ends of the line do not allow for any recovery time so as soon as you incur a small delay, you're stuffed for the rest of the day...

When 230008 returned to Birkenhead Depot during the afternoon and was replaced with 230009, it allowed some of the afternoon services to start running on time again, so while the unit may not be able to run for a whole day [as seems to be a common complaint further up this thread], there are some benefits to have the trains swap halfway through the day. The services operated on by 150250 continued to be delayed throughout the day until it's final round trip of the day was cancelled [2F94 and the return of 2J96].

Some of the other observations I made:
  • The seating onboard the 230s was more comfortable than the 150s, and the hybrid seating layout worked well on the newer trains.
  • There were plug sockets onboard both classes of trains, however, I had more success at charging my phone on the 230s than the 150s, with 2 attempts to plug in my phone on the 150 failing as the sockets weren't working.
  • The automatic announcements and information screens on the 230s were working on all bar 1 services that I boarded. The announcements were clear and audible. On the 150, there were no automatic announcements and the information screens were blank on all services that I boarded. On 1 of the 150 services, the guard was making manual announcements but these were very quiet and difficult to hear.
  • During a heavy downpour, water started to ingress in 1 of the carriages on 230008, through a lighting fixture, soaking 2 seats, a table and a passenger..
  • Both the 150 and the 230 provided a very bouncy journey, with no real difference between the ride quality on either train.
  • Both trains were reasonably clean and tidy, however, the 150 was noticeably tired and worn down in its appearance.
  • The doors on the 230s are slower to open, and I noticed multiple guards physically pushing them to make them open quicker [a cause of the reported door faults possibly?].
So ultimately, both units have their pros and cons, however, at this present moment, I wouldn't say that one class of train is preferable to the other for the Borderlands line because the thing that most regular passengers travelling on the line care about is being able to get from A to B with as little delay as possible, and without cancellation, and right not that simply isn't possible. The only way I can see things changing on this line is if the timetables are changed so that trains have a longer dwell time at Wrexham Central so that there is more chance of recovery when delays do occur [since they're inevitable], however, due to the length of the line, it's doesn't really appear feasible to change the timetable without cutting stops out or reducing the frequency of the services. As a side note though, would it ever be possible for TfW to achieve something closer to a 45-minute timetable, with 3 trains running on the line [with longer dwell times at Wrexham Central] compared to the current hourly timetable with 2 trains running on the line?
 

anthony263

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19 Aug 2008
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South Wales
Doesn't help they didn't fit more ventilation to the battery packs on the 230s. Pity these units aren't more reliable
 

L401CJF

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16 Oct 2019
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Wirral
The 230s seem to have settled down a lot now. Ive been chatting to a few drivers, apparently the 230s don't like the slippy season much as even trying to crawl away at a station they have too much power so just slip.

I havnt worked them much myself lately although did do 2 round trips on one in the week and was completely faultless. Driver I was with has done a lot of 230 work lately and seems to think the reliability it much better now and that the afternoon unit swop doesn't really need to happen anymore.

There is a new procedure in place regarding loss of a genset in service, there is some sort of erroneous bug/certain condition that causes a genset to shut down occasionally which now has a procedure in place to attempt to rectify en route instead of being cancelled.

I was also told (potentially gossip so take with a pinch of salt) that they've had/are having some sort of ECU mod which makes it easier for staff at Birkenhead to change various parameters and tinker with settings.

Still unsure on the status of 230006 (which has now moved alongside the shed at Birkenhead again) and 230010 (unable to see it, presume in shed at Birkenhead).
 

CaergwrleKen

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Joined
2 Oct 2019
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162
Location
Caergwrle
If you were a machine that was used very sparingly then you’d expect to be fairly reliable. Nothing has really changed with the 230s, they still miss the odd trip or go express or miss out Central, as we speak the 1135 from Wrexham is affected.

The 150 is still doing the bulk of the work, the 230s are still only doing ONE diagram a day between them, a 30 million pound fleet of 5 trains only 3 of which are actually operational. Once they start doing both full daily diagrams reliably then we can talk but i fear this will never happen.
 

Dan G

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12 May 2021
Messages
610
Location
Exeter
The 230s seem to have settled down a lot now. Ive been chatting to a few drivers, apparently the 230s don't like the slippy season much as even trying to crawl away at a station they have too much power so just slip.

I havnt worked them much myself lately although did do 2 round trips on one in the week and was completely faultless. Driver I was with has done a lot of 230 work lately and seems to think the reliability it much better now and that the afternoon unit swop doesn't really need to happen anymore.

There is a new procedure in place regarding loss of a genset in service, there is some sort of erroneous bug/certain condition that causes a genset to shut down occasionally which now has a procedure in place to attempt to rectify en route instead of being cancelled.

I was also told (potentially gossip so take with a pinch of salt) that they've had/are having some sort of ECU mod which makes it easier for staff at Birkenhead to change various parameters and tinker with settings.

Still unsure on the status of 230006 (which has now moved alongside the shed at Birkenhead again) and 230010 (unable to see it, presume in shed at Birkenhead).
Thank you for the update!
 

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