Anybody got a clue what happenned to the replacement 230 out of Birkenheas North this afternoon. Wondeting if this was caused by the 6 trians per hour to the Open at Hoylake. Pats coaches out again. If this is the reason, then TFW swap plan is a non starter until next Monday
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Transport for Wales Class 230
- Thread starter CaergwrleKen
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The replacement unit failed.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
According to RTT, there does seem to have been far fewer cancellations over the last week. There do seem to have been a few occasions where the 230 has maintained time for a few trips, lost around 30 minutes on one trip, but then continued to maintain time (albeit remaining 30 late). Would be interesting to know what's going on there.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Could it have been a fixable fault, so the train waited a bit to be fixed then moved?
Kite159
Veteran Member
Well it seems services have gone back to 1x 230 & 1x 150 out looking at RTT. Unless that has been the plan
I've not been keeping track but I'm sure it's been like that for a few weeks
CaergwrleKen
Member
The 150 is still doing its full diagram very reliably (0620-midnight) and has been for a number of weeks.
The 230s are still only doing several trips a day between them (one does 0735-1535, another does 1745, 1850), the departure times have been altered to reduce the delays and not make them look as bad.
There have been no actual failures this week so far (last week was a disaster) but they still constantly run late and do the odd miss out of Central or skip the whole route to catch up time. The performance will likely improve this next couple of weeks as they are having weekends off due to engineering so have time to cool down but we are still absolutely miles away from getting them into regular reliable service.
So to answer any queries no they aren’t doing any better but i’m sure the experts will be along now to tell us how great they are.
The 230s are still only doing several trips a day between them (one does 0735-1535, another does 1745, 1850), the departure times have been altered to reduce the delays and not make them look as bad.
There have been no actual failures this week so far (last week was a disaster) but they still constantly run late and do the odd miss out of Central or skip the whole route to catch up time. The performance will likely improve this next couple of weeks as they are having weekends off due to engineering so have time to cool down but we are still absolutely miles away from getting them into regular reliable service.
So to answer any queries no they aren’t doing any better but i’m sure the experts will be along now to tell us how great they are.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
The 150 is matching the 230 for delays today...
CaergwrleKen
Member
But it’s still running. Probably being held up in the 230 backlog. The 230 has been replaced (ie failed) 4 hours early today and it’s replacement is now over 30 minutes late but let’s not mention that
I've not looked into it as I've not got time at the moment, but as Ken says a 230 has been swapped earlier on than usual. Quite possibly if a 230 failed this morning it could delay the 150. No idea if that's the case.
Edit - 230 gone AWOL again this eve for its final return trip.
Edit - 230 gone AWOL again this eve for its final return trip.
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In this month's Modern Railways magazine (August 2023), the New Train Reliability league table is published in Roger Ford's column, for Railway Period 1 2023-24. I believe in the normal world this means April 2023.
Of note is that the TfW 230s are not bottom of the league in terms of Miles per 701D. In fact, by that metric, they are currently doing slightly better than TfW's Class 231s (Stadler), and almost twice as well as Merseyrail's Class 777 (also Stadler). Both of which are brand new trains from the Swiss, famed for their supposed legendary reliability.
Miles per 701D is a measure of reliability and replaced 'MTIN' as the metric for measuring fleet performance in 2022, as explained here: https://www.modernrailways.com/article/new-measure-fleet-reliability
But the table quotes both 701D and MTIN figures. The article says that Miles per 701D, "....better reflects the impact of fleet failures on the fare-paying passenger."
In fact, in a paragraph accompanying the article, Roger Ford makes the observation:
"Appropriately, having described the trials and tribulations of TfW Rail's Vivarail Class 230 hybrid units, the five-strong fleet makes its debut in this month's New Train TIN-watch table. And, in relative terms, it's quite an impressive first showing, not only above the 2000 MTIN MAA mark, but with clear blue water between the fleet and Stadler's debutants at TfW Rail and Merseyrail. And also better than TfW Rail's longer-established CAF Class 197 DMUs. Of course, new fleets can flatter to deceive before the cold rolling averages take their toll. But, for the moment, chapeau to all those at Vivarail and TfW who, despite the turmoil, have finally got the trains into service, and six places off the bottom of the table to boot."
The statistics therefore suggest that performance is not as bad, relative to other much newer train fleets, as the naysayers, haters and gap year experts in this thread would have you believe.
Here is the table:
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When you look at the total milage something does not seem to ring true in terms of in service passengrr miles. If it is April i don't think we had more than a two hour service for part of the day and just on weekdays. Can someone confirm the training runs have not been included. Total milage would suggest about 8 return journeys per day which I doubt occurred as evenings back then seemed to be bustitutions, if I remember correctly. And for a fleet of 5 trains that have been with TFW for several years, this does seens not seem a very efficient use of resources.
It is also worth noting that these figures are for April, before the hay fever season and hot weather (which won't have helped the overheating problems). If, as suggested above, the data also includes the training runs, then that will affect the figures - some of the delays have been down to problems with the doors, including the passenger controls. I haven't observed any of the training runs doing anything more than stopping at a station, the guard opens and shuts his/her door, and the train departs. No test of the passenger/train interface.
The reality is that when you have trains regularly running 20-30 mins late on a total journey time of 1hr then something isn't right.
It should, in fairness, perhaps be mentioned that not all delays have been down to the 230s themselves. There have been a medical emergency, tresspass incidents, and also delays/cancellations due to crew availability issues.
The reality is that when you have trains regularly running 20-30 mins late on a total journey time of 1hr then something isn't right.
It should, in fairness, perhaps be mentioned that not all delays have been down to the 230s themselves. There have been a medical emergency, tresspass incidents, and also delays/cancellations due to crew availability issues.
Zontar
Member
The fine art of deception. The 230s have been failing daily, but this helpful set of figures is only for April which they will stick to like glue.
Manipulation of data won't bring back customers or stop the units failing daily.
Manipulation of data won't bring back customers or stop the units failing daily.
Invincible
Member
Looking quickly at Realtime trains website 230007 was working with a 150 yesterday.
Guess there were also some 230 training runs this week.
I understand from previous posts Stadler (or some other 3rd party?) are now maintaining the 230s for TFW, so guess they are aiming to get all 230s in regular service (including 230006?).
One major problem (Thanks @tomuk and @Woods) is getting radiators fixed to prevent overheating?. Also to restore engine stops and starts in stations.
Looks like bus replacement service this weekend due to trackwork to improve the service.
www.railadvent.co.uk
Guess there were also some 230 training runs this week.
I understand from previous posts Stadler (or some other 3rd party?) are now maintaining the 230s for TFW, so guess they are aiming to get all 230s in regular service (including 230006?).
One major problem (Thanks @tomuk and @Woods) is getting radiators fixed to prevent overheating?. Also to restore engine stops and starts in stations.
Looks like bus replacement service this weekend due to trackwork to improve the service.
Railway line to be upgraded to boost reliability in Wrexham
Network Rail and Transport for Wales have advised customers to check before travel as work at Wrexham will cause some disruption.
www.railadvent.co.uk
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Hardly deception. Just quoting some stats, you know - a bit of science - but hey facts aren't as exciting as opinion and anecdotes are they? Thought it wouldn't be long until someone came along with some conspiracy theory that the stats are a stitch-up by dark forces. I'm sorry the facts don't quite fit the standard narrative that these trains are the most hopeless trains ever built.
And yes ok it's just for April, alright then let's wait and see what the stats are for May, June, July and onwards. Perhaps they will be better, perhaps they will be worse. We will see.
"They" is an independent journalist from an independent and highly respected trade magazine - hardly the mouthpiece of TfW.
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Not 100% sure myself but the best explanation I could find was here: https://www.modernrailways.com/article/new-measure-fleet-reliability
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It's a TfW team looking after the 230s at Birkenhead North which is a Stadler depot. But Stadler aren't actually doing the maintenance. That might be where the confusion has come about.
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Invincible
Member
Thanks
Wonder if they, and perhaps the SWR team at IoW (where the trains now seem reliable), are in touch with the former Vivarail employees at GWR about maintenance, now GWR have brought the Vivarail info and spares? There may be some commercial value for GWR giving assistance? Although the main aim is to get a 230 running at West Ealing.
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Zontar
Member
Not sure which conspiracy you think I'm chasing.
They fail daily. Fact.
The data doesn't represent that fact.
Ive been told they've had a few fault free days, presumably as its cooled down a bit. A quick glance through RTT for yesterday (31/07) shows the 230 running around 20L by the time they swapped over at 1630 ish.
Ive just had a look through todays RTT data, and its very odd to see such a small number of red departures and zero cancellations!
CaergwrleKen
Member
The 230s aren’t working weekends at the moment so have time for a rest, they’re still only doing half a diagram each per day Mon-Fri so let’s not get too carried away. If they went onto daily all day diagrams the failures would soon return so they obviously still haven’t got confidence in them. No doubt the politicians and the experts will be on soon telling us what a success they are and how they’ve been worth all the millions spent.
Oh absolutely I agree 100%, but seeing a near perfect service today is a real breath of fresh air. No doubt when it warms up again over the next few weeks it"ll be back to square one..
rich.davies
Member
TFW have now launched a map to track services in real time. I know most of us are aware of RTT but i doubt the avarage traveller would be aware of it, so may prove useful.
Zontar
Member
It's quite amusing to see them give a huge pat on the back for innovative (and more useful) way to see how late the trains are running.TFW have now launched a map to track services in real time. I know most of us are aware of RTT but i doubt the avarage traveller would be aware of it, so may prove useful.
Just not buying/running unreliable trains would have been a lot more easier
Western 52
Established Member
The app seems quite good and covers more than just TfW lines and services. It looks rather busy at major stations! It shows headcodes too, useful for some of us. Now if they could add freight trains.....TFW have now launched a map to track services in real time. I know most of us are aware of RTT but i doubt the avarage traveller would be aware of it, so may prove useful.
Here's the map
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Seems to cover all of Great Britain!
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Seems to cover all of Great Britain!