Trivia - NBC Bristol VR double deckers

[co-tr-paul]

The Western National VOD/K batch had moquette in Holdsworths Tilling green certainly upstairs.
Anybody know the details of the last ECW bodied flat screen VR ; guessing K reg . ??

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Indeed, the switch to moquette in the 1979 order for some NBC companies, also meant that the ones that retained vinyl seats got an austere plain brown vinyl.

It is a strange phenomenon that some NBC operators continued to specify vinyl seats for their new vehicles after 1979, presumably just on the personal preferences of whoever was in charge of that operator at the time.

I've never quite been able to put together a complete list of which NBC operators went for moquette post 1979, and which didn't. For a small group of operators, the vinyl years were restricted to R, S and T registered vehicles, that is the 1976 to 1978 orders, but others had been vinyl before the NBC standardisation on orange vinyl during 1975, which seemed to align with broadly with the introduction of the 'Phase 2' version of the Leyland National 1.

I can definitely vouch for United Auto continuing to specify vinyl except for a batch of VRs received in 1980 of which 5 had DP seats and 10 had moquette bus seats (which I think were diverted). In fact, there was a change from orangy/tan vinyl in c.1979 to a dark brown; both are shown in this Peter Horrex photo of an Eastern Counties VR https://www.flickr.com/photos/briti...E6F-4W1JjM-ynNeBw-mTn2PM-mTnrqX-mTn988-mToWEW

IIRC, the dark brown vinyl was even more uncomfortable and unyielding!

The Western National VOD/K batch had moquette in Holdsworths Tilling green certainly upstairs.
Anybody know the details of the last ECW bodied flat screen VR ; guessing K reg . ??

There was at least one flat fronted L reg with United Counties

 

[A0]

There was at least one flat fronted L reg with United Counties

The interesting part of that is, according to the web, United Counties received 3 VRT's in August 1972 - 2 were issued 'K' registrations CBD784/5K and the last one got FRP786L - the 'new' L registrations would have been from 1st August, so I can only assume United Counties had 'pre-registered' 2 vehicles before 1st August and the last one got issued after 1st August.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The interesting part of that is, according to the web, United Counties received 3 VRT's in August 1972 - 2 were issued 'K' registrations CBD784/5K and the last one got FRP786L - the 'new' L registrations would have been from 1st August, so I can only assume United Counties had 'pre-registered' 2 vehicles before 1st August and the last one got issued after 1st August.

Again, it was typical in the 1970s for regs to be booked and voided - why only 1 of the 3 were so treated....??

 

[MotCO]

Again, it was typical in the 1970s for regs to be booked and voided - why only 1 of the 3 were so treated....??

It maybe that the K reg buses were actually completed and first registered in July, even if not delivered until August. The L reg bus may not have been completed until August and then delivered.

 

[randyrippley]

Can anyone explain this?

Just looking at the "Bus lists on the web" site (buslistsontheweb.co.uk) and it shows Hutchings &Cornelius's second LH (NYD440L / ECW20316) as delivered January 1972, while the H&C VR (RYA700L / ECW20315) was delivered much later in August 1973. ECW20299-20314 were LHs for United delivered August-November 1973
At what stage were body numbers allocated? It seems strange that deliveries would be so out of synch

 

[Steve440]

NYD440L was new 1/73 according to PSV Circle, L registration wouldn't make sense for 1/72. ECW body numbers were generally allocated when orders were placed.

 

[randyrippley]

NYD440L was new 1/73 according to PSV Circle, L registration wouldn't make sense for 1/72. ECW body numbers were generally allocated when orders were placed.

thank you, that better matches my memory of when it appeared.
Presumably an error on the Bus lists site

 

[BVW]

It maybe that the K reg buses were actually completed and first registered in July, even if not delivered until August. The L reg bus may not have been completed until August and then delivered.

That's exactly it.

Can anyone explain this?

Just looking at the "Bus lists on the web" site (buslistsontheweb.co.uk) and it shows Hutchings &Cornelius's second LH (NYD440L / ECW20316) as delivered January 1972, while the H&C VR (RYA700L / ECW20315) was delivered much later in August 1973. ECW20299-20314 were LHs for United delivered August-November 1973
At what stage were body numbers allocated? It seems strange that deliveries would be so out of synch

The PSV Circle quotes the delivery dates from ECW as 16th December 1972 for NYD 440L and 6th June 1973 for RYA 700L.

 

[randyrippley]

The PSV Circle quotes the delivery dates from ECW as 16th December 1972 for YYD 440L and 6th June 1973 for RYA 700L.

That makes more sense from what I remember, but it's still interesting to see the near seven month separation between the consecutive numbers. Would the LH have been supplied out of synch from stock or as a tag-on to a bigger order? I know the VR would have been scheduled to be delivered to coincide with the retirement of the conductress (Edna?) on the Dennis it replaced

 

[Eyersey468]

That makes more sense from what I remember, but it's still interesting to see the near seven month separation between the consecutive numbers. Would the LH have been supplied out of synch from stock or as a tag-on to a bigger order? I know the VR would have been scheduled to be delivered to coincide with the retirement of the conductress (Edna?) on the Dennis it replaced

I can't see it being a tag on to a bigger order with H&C being independent

 

[Porte Molitor]

From memory, Bristol City and Oxford were the only subsidiaries to take dual-door centre staircase VRs, which had a much more well-proportioned upper deck interior compared to the standard lowheight.

Agree, I remember the Oxford ones and thought upstairs was always more logical than the standard single door ECW bodywork, with the 3+1 seats at the front. Mind you I thought the interiors in general on all of the ECW bodied VRs were shockingly dated, the whole ambiance hadn't really changed much since their handiwork on the Bristol FL class.
Of course Oxford ended up with a fair number of single door VRs when it bought Wycombe garage from Len Wright's Beeline operation. Oxford's post-privatisation red and white livery did suit them I think

 

[Steve440]

I would say quite a lot, for VR operators - if you take into account those depots that closed in the dark days of 1970-71. Even then there will still be quite a few. Off the top of my head I can think of: Ribble at Ulverston, Grange-over-Sands, Liverpool, Bury, and Skipton; Yorkshire at Bradford and Liversedge; West Yorkshire at Grassington, Ilkley, Pateley Bridge, Scarborough, and Wetherby; Lincolnshire at Goole; Western Welsh/Crosville at Newcastle Emlyn and New Quay, and Western Welsh at Carmarthen - and did Western Welsh/South Wales ever operate VRs from Haverfordwest?; Western Welsh/National Welsh from Brecon, and I'd be surprised if Red & White/National Welsh at Abergavenny wasn't entirely single-deck by the NBC years - the Red & White/National Welsh garage at Cardiff Gelligaer Street, being a coach garage only. never saw a VR; and London Country's small allocation of VRs only operated from Grays, so you can add every other London Country garage onto the list.

Ilkley depot (West Yorkshire) definitely had some for the Leeds 733 route

 

[Merle Haggard]

The interesting part of that is, according to the web, United Counties received 3 VRT's in August 1972 - 2 were issued 'K' registrations CBD784/5K and the last one got FRP786L - the 'new' L registrations would have been from 1st August, so I can only assume United Counties had 'pre-registered' 2 vehicles before 1st August and the last one got issued after 1st August.

784/5/6 were delivered as CBD-K in July 1972. Because of the chronic vehicle shortage caused by the unreliable ex Luton C.T. Leylands (particularly the Lowlanders) 784/5 were licensed as soon as they arrived but for some reason 786 was not licensed until 1st August and accordingly had to be re-registered. In the mayhem in the Engineer's Office at the time, I will only say that it was not licensed in July. Did anyone photo it at Whipsnade Zoo on its first day on the road?

United Counties operated all four height variations of the VR although the 14' 6" ones were only on hire. I say 'four' because at least one convertible open top was operated on hire (with the roof on!) and this version is slightly taller than the standard 13'8" version owing to the join.

The 13' 5" version could be described as 'low bridge' because it did indeed have a sunken gangway - but in the lower saloon.

The 14' 6" version was curious - available presumably at the request of operators wanting 'High bridge buses' - because there was no increase in the headroom in either saloon; the lower deck floor was higher as well as the upper. If you entered the lower deck after paying the driver you encountered an unexpected (if you were used to the standard VR) high step into the saloon and the chance of failing to notice the step was increased by distraction caused by the overhead sign that said 'Caution - Step'.

 

[Steve440]

Southdown also had many dual-door, centre staircase VRs

Southdown also uniquely received dual-door convertible open top ones as well as single-door convertible open top.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Of course Oxford ended up with a fair number of single door VRs when it bought Wycombe garage from Len Wright's Beeline operation. Oxford's post-privatisation red and white livery did suit them I think

City of Oxford also had a number of single door VRs. Naturally, most were allocated to the country depots that became South Midland but they did have some at Oxford depot