Ellesmere Port - Helsby cancellations

[Krokodil]

Runcorn East makes little sense as a turnback, with the current infrastructure you'd have to send the train past Acton Grange Junction to turn it back. At least Frodsham Junction isn't far past Frodsham.

If extension beyond Helsby were ever in the frame it would be worth adding a crossover from the Down to the Up Helsby so that Platform 1 at Warrington can be used to turn back trains from the south rather than just from the north.

Adding a chord from the Down Helsby to the Down Main where the lines cross at Keckwick would eliminate a flat junction conflict at Acton Grange too.

I think that we're far more likely to see 777s going to Warrington Central than Bank Quay in any case. Bank Quay would need ticket barriers, the fare evasion is bad enough as it is. For the foreseeable future, Helsby will be the limit of Merseyrail expansion in that area.

 

[Parjon]

Helsby has a car park. It has 21 spaces!

That's why they should build a park and ride off the motorway for it.

 

[The exile]

That's why they should build a park and ride off the motorway for it.

I believe you can’t have a P&R directly off a M-Way )if that’s what you mean. Not sure why, but I believe Bristol wants to off the M32 but it would need to be downgraded first.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe you can’t have a P&R directly off a M-Way )if that’s what you mean. Not sure why, but I believe Bristol wants to off the M32 but it would need to be downgraded first.

Not correct. Lancaster P&R is directly off the M6 (at a junction, but it's still the M6).

 

[kieron]

I believe you can’t have a P&R directly off a M-Way )if that’s what you mean. Not sure why, but I believe Bristol wants to off the M32 but it would need to be downgraded first.

The motorway junction near Helsby isn't that close to the railway, so you'd need a link road anyway. J12 is closer, but there's no station there.

 

[L401CJF]

Ellesmere Port has a bigger one again but noone in there right mind would ever take a chance and park there.

I park there occasionally and never had any issues, although the evening trains themselves are not nice to travel on down the E Port line as its just feral kids onboard usually.

I generally park at Hooton though as its more convenient frequency wise as mentioned above.

 

[Djgr]

Ellesmere Port has a bigger one again but noone in there right mind would ever take a chance and park there.

Birkenhead North hardly gets a good press but the 630 space park and ride gets pretty full.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2023 ==

That's why they should build a park and ride off the motorway for it.

If you are going to leave Helsby station where it is for connectivity then the challenges are access but also where the parking could be located near to the station.

 

[frodshamfella]

Agreed, I believe the rationale of this is avoiding conflicting moves which may disrupt the network, e.g. avoiding WCML delays being brought into the Merseyrail network, if a Warrington/Hooton service is late, it may disrupt a Chester, which then may disrupt a WK or NB etc. etc.

I think there are points at Runcorn East

 

[Krokodil]

I think there are points at Runcorn East

There aren't. I remember a train failing at Frodsham, and the Halton Curve was under an engineering blockade. Empty units had to go all the way to Warrington before it could cross over.

 

[1Z99]

I think there are points at Runcorn East

Not any more - Norton signal box (Runcorn East) closed in September 2021 but the crossover was removed a few years prior to the box closure.

Any services terminating at Runcorn East would have to shunt via Warrington Bank Quay.

 

[frodshamfella]

There aren't. I remember a train failing at Frodsham, and the Halton Curve was under an engineering blockade. Empty units had to go all the way to Warrington before it could cross over.

There's forward thinking for you

 

[Penmorfa]

How do you know it's a basket case? The service has, to all intents and purposes, been unusable for connections to & from Manchester and beyond for the last 20 years.

But I agree with you about Wigan. Building a terminus station at Headbolt Lane is perhaps the most ridiculous example yet of services stopping at or just beyond county boundaries. Others include Worksop, Newark, Ormskirk and Adwick.

You'd have to blame the L&Y for Ormskiirk as they electrified it in 1913!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2023 ==

Before Chester and Ellesmere Port were electrified but Hooton was, there was a half hourly DMU service from Chester via Hooton to Helsby. Ellesmere Port to Helsby services were invaribly totally empty. If there was a chance for the line to prove its usefulness that was it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You'd have to blame the L&Y for Ormskiirk as they electrified it in 1913!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2023 ==

Before Chester and Ellesmere Port were electrified but Hooton was, there was a half hourly DMU service from Chester via Hooton to Helsby. Ellesmere Port to Helsby services were invaribly totally empty. If there was a chance for the line to prove its usefulness that was it.

Though an EMU 4 times an hour is a lot more attractive than a DMU once or twice an hour, so that doesn't necessarily follow.

 

[Penmorfa]

Though an EMU 4 times an hour is a lot more attractive than a DMU once or twice an hour, so that doesn't necessarily follow.

Any investment decision will look at the previous history of the line. When they had the chance to use it they did'nt.

 

[Llandudno]

Any investment decision will look at the previous history of the line. When they had the chance to use it they did'nt.

Indeed, anyone from the Helsby or Ince & Elton catchment areas will either drive to Ellesmere Port or Hooton for frequent Merseyrail services to Birkenhead and Liverpool City Centre or catch the soon to be hourly Helsby to Liverpool Lime Street TfW service.

I can’t see Merseyrail ever running beyond Ellesmere Port, there are far more lucrative 777 battery extension possibilities to the excellent Merseyrail network.

Headbolt Lane - Skelmersdale and/or Wigan
Ormskirk - Burscough Bridge
Bidston - Neston (with new station at Woodchurch)

Although I have my doubts any of them will happen as they are all outside Liverpool City Region and I doubt that the respective neighbouring authorities will stump up any cash!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any investment decision will look at the previous history of the line. When they had the chance to use it they did'nt.

It's not sensible to look at history when that history was basically an entirely different era and situation.

 

[Djgr]

It's not sensible to look at history when that history was basically an entirely different era and situation.

Well you should look at the history but also the factors that have changed.

But out of area enhancements are never going to be high on the list of priorities for Merseytravel, unless someone else is going to assist with the funding.

 

[frodshamfella]

Well you should look at the history but also the factors that have changed.

But out of area enhancements are never going to be high on the list of priorities for Merseytravel, unless someone else is going to assist with the funding.

I could see given a regular reliable service continuing to Ince / Elton and Helsby being useful however I can't see Cheshire West stumping up , they don't show much public transport interest.

 

[Djgr]

I could see given a regular reliable service continuing to Ince / Elton and Helsby being useful however I can't see Cheshire West stumping up , they don't show much public transport interest.

And there's the rub.

LCR has higher priorities on its to do list.

The Welsh government will look at funding options to improve connectivity between LCR and North Wales.

But without finance from the likes of Cheshire/Lancashire (and in practice this means from the clowns at Westminster) ideas like this (ditto Skem, ditto Burscough curve) are dead in the water.

 

[frodshamfella]

And there's the rub.

LCR has higher priorities on its to do list.

The Welsh government will look at funding options to improve connectivity between LCR and North Wales.

But without finance from the likes of Cheshire/Lancashire (and in practice this means from the clowns at Westminster) ideas like this (ditto Skem, ditto Burscough curve) are dead in the water.

And the clowns down there are not much interested at anything beyond London / SE ....and so we plod on.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I went down to Ellesmere Port station today to buy my split tickets for Bank Holiday Monday and found that, yet again, there wasn't a single poster or leaflet giving the times of trains to Helsby. And there are no electronic next departure indicators on the Helsby platform.

So the only way a random traveller would find out about the next train east would be to arrive at the ticket office when it opens at 0615 (SSuX) and hope the 0633 departure was shown on the TV screen. Passengers for the 1906 would be less fortunate as the TV screen is invisible after the ticket office closes at 1424.

Complaints were made about this back in 2019. Northern blamed Merseyrail and Merseyrail blamed Northern. A small poster did eventually appear in summer 2021 but now there are none.

Maybe Northern are too embarrassed to advertise a service which hardly ever runs!

 

[1Z99]

Whilst I appreciate these services are the first to be chopped if there's crew shortages (and correctly so given the low patronage) - the recent reliability has been particularly appaling and I feel is important to highlight.

Of the last 48 possible trips, it's ran 10 times, cancelled 38 times - with the last time both the AM and PM services running being 3 weeks ago (8th August)!

 

[_toommm_]

Seems to have ran this morning. I’m hoping to get the service from Ince and Elton this afternoon.

Slightly off topic, I’ve walked from Stanlow to Ellesmere before down the refinery road, but that was possibly a few years ago. Does anyone know if you can carry on down to Ince and Elton? It seems publicly accessible.

 

[M28361M]

Slightly off topic, I’ve walked from Stanlow to Ellesmere before down the refinery road, but that was possibly a few years ago. Does anyone know if you can carry on down to Ince and Elton? It seems publicly accessible.

I believe you can still walk along the full length of Oil Sites Road, yes.

 

[Pacef8]

Dont pick a day when there are rumours of oil protestors in the area . Security gets a bit jumpy as i found out! Stanlow station is closed for good now.

 

[_toommm_]

Dont pick a day when there are rumours of oil protestors in the area . Security gets a bit jumpy as i found out! Stanlow station is closed for good now.

It’s not closed because of protesters. There’s scaffolding on the underside of the bridge to get to the platforms.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Ince & Elton is now the worst station in the station in the country for cancellations and punctuality, coming bottom of the country's 2,616 stations over the past 12 weeks on ontimetrains.co.uk. See

On Time Trains

Find out how often your train journey is on time, look up recent services eligible for delay repay claims and check your station rankings.

www.ontimetrains.co.uk

Well over ⅔ of trains on the line were cancelled.

 

[Kite159]

Ince & Elton is now the worst station in the station in the country for cancellations and punctuality, coming bottom of the country's 2,616 stations over the past 12 weeks on ontimetrains.co.uk. See

On Time Trains

Find out how often your train journey is on time, look up recent services eligible for delay repay claims and check your station rankings.

www.ontimetrains.co.uk

I reckon it will be the next least used station when the next lot of stats get released.

No 'normal' passengers will use it (ie if you lived in the village) due to the times it runs and high chance of getting cancelled.

 

[frodshamfella]

Ince & Elton is now the worst station in the station in the country for cancellations and punctuality, coming bottom of the country's 2,616 stations over the past 12 weeks on ontimetrains.co.uk. See

On Time Trains

Find out how often your train journey is on time, look up recent services eligible for delay repay claims and check your station rankings.

www.ontimetrains.co.uk

Doesn't encourage locals to use the station, even with the pitiful frequency.

 

[pharrc20]

Oil Sites Road is security manned by Essar security and at the Ellesmere Port end (near Innospec), that is information from my partner who works nearby and visits Essar as part of her job.

Thinking aloud, why don't Merseyrail look to extend the third rail network east beyond Ellesmere Port to Helsby and improve the services that way? Or use some of these shiny new 777 units with batteries to provide a lower-cost alternative to Helsby. There is a handy trailing crossover that I think would allow reversing moves at Helsby. If Stanlow & Thornton cannot be used or reopened then a new station further west near to Bridges Road/New Bridge Road would help matters.

Cheers Paul