Ellesmere Port - Helsby cancellations

[Djgr]

Oil Sites Road is security manned by Essar security and at the Ellesmere Port end (near Innospec), that is information from my partner who works nearby and visits Essar as part of her job.

Thinking aloud, why don't Merseyrail look to extend the third rail network east beyond Ellesmere Port to Helsby and improve the services that way? Or use some of these shiny new 777 units with batteries to provide a lower-cost alternative to Helsby. There is a handy trailing crossover that I think would allow reversing moves at Helsby. If Stanlow & Thornton cannot be used or reopened then a new station further west near to Bridges Road/New Bridge Road would help matters.

Cheers Paul

Because it's outside Liverpool City Region and therefore (and even this is being generous) very low priority.

Quoting-"Merseytravel’s focus is on supporting the economic growth of the Liverpool City Region by improving connectivity across the region and beyond".

Therefore a benefit to Liverpool City Region (which does not include Ellesmere Port, Ince, Elton or Helsby) would need to be demonstrable.

 

[pharrc20]

Because it's outside Liverpool City Region and therefore (and even this is being generous) very low priority.

Quoting-"Merseytravel’s focus is on supporting the economic growth of the Liverpool City Region by improving connectivity across the region and beyond".

Therefore a benefit to Liverpool City Region (which does not include Ellesmere Port, Ince, Elton or Helsby) would need to be demonstrable.

Lol, always some polished words to snooker an idea.

 

[_toommm_]

I managed to walk along the full length of the road with no trouble, walking between the two stations in 1.5hrs. No trouble at all along the way, and I even managed to sneak some photos of some of the abandoned Shell site, along with the outside of Stanlow station.

 

[RetroCrowe]

Oil Sites Road is security manned by Essar security and at the Ellesmere Port end (near Innospec), that is information from my partner who works nearby and visits Essar as part of her job.

Thinking aloud, why don't Merseyrail look to extend the third rail network east beyond Ellesmere Port to Helsby and improve the services that way? Or use some of these shiny new 777 units with batteries to provide a lower-cost alternative to Helsby. There is a handy trailing crossover that I think would allow reversing moves at Helsby. If Stanlow & Thornton cannot be used or reopened then a new station further west near to Bridges Road/New Bridge Road would help matters.

Cheers Paul

I've heard that third-railing the line would be impossible because of Stanlow Refinery being so close to the tracks so having an active third rail would be incredibly dangerous. To extend Merseyrail to Helsby, which I personally think would be a good idea, they would have to do it with battery 777s

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Because it's outside Liverpool City Region and therefore (and even this is being generous) very low priority.

Quoting-"Merseytravel’s focus is on supporting the economic growth of the Liverpool City Region by improving connectivity across the region and beyond".

Therefore a benefit to Liverpool City Region (which does not include Ellesmere Port, Ince, Elton or Helsby) would need to be demonstrable.

You are right. About 20 years ago, the powers-that-be on Merseyside refused to back a short 1 to 1.5 mile extension from Ellesmere Port to the massive Cheshire Oaks retail park and Coliseum Leisure Centre as it would "extract business from Liverpool city centre". For those unfamiliar with the area, this would have been a new southwards branch away from the Helsby line.

 

[Djgr]

Lol, always some polished words to snooker an idea.

Yep. Either

You are right. About 20 years ago, the powers-that-be on Merseyside refused to back a short 1 to 1.5 mile extension from Ellesmere Port to the massive Cheshire Oaks retail park and Coliseum Leisure Centre as it would "extract business from Liverpool city centre". For those unfamiliar with the area, this would have been a new southwards branch away from the Helsby line.

The only way that anything will happen on the Ellesmere Port to Helsby line is if there is funding from the good folks of Cheshire.

It is surely no coincidence that the two latest "Merseyrail" projects are on the boundary of, but within, the LCR region (Maghull North and Headbolt Lane).

And the next big financial project is probably Liverpool Baltic (which is clearly much more relevant to LCR).

It is also likely that Bidston-Wrexham developments will take precedent over anything Ellesmere Port-Helsby because the Welsh Government is prepared to engage financially.

 

[Arpley to SRH]

I managed to walk along the full length of the road with no trouble, walking between the two stations in 1.5hrs. No trouble at all along the way, and I even managed to sneak some photos of some of the abandoned Shell site, along with the outside of Stanlow station.

thanks - can you confirm when this was ie very recently, or a few years ago? Am interested in walking that route if it is still publicly accessible.

I have been tracking the HSB to EP service for most of this week but it doesn’t seem to have run, anyone know when it last did, or might do again?

thanks
MJ (new to this forum)

 

[janb]

I have been tracking the HSB to EP service for most of this week but it doesn’t seem to have run, anyone know when it last did, or might do again?

thanks
MJ (new to this forum)

Last ran Friday the 13th.

Search - Recent Train Times

 

[_toommm_]

thanks - can you confirm when this was ie very recently, or a few years ago? Am interested in walking that route if it is still publicly accessible.

It was the day before I posted my reply, so 07/09/23. The road has gates about halfway down near Stanlow station, and at the Ince end of the road; but I’ve never seen the gates closed.

I received no bother at all. I peered through the fences at several points looking at some of the active and abandoned sites, which might look suspicious to an outsider, but it all went well.

 

[AndrewE]

It was the day before I posted my reply, so 07/09/23. The road has gates about halfway down near Stanlow station, and at the Ince end of the road; but I’ve never seen the gates closed.

I received no bother at all. I peered through the fences at several points looking at some of the active and abandoned sites, which might look suspicious to an outsider, but it all went well.

That road used to be yellow on OS maps, meaning it was a public right of way. Unfortunanetely now it is a "white road" meaning no right of way is implied by the map, IIRC.

 

[_toommm_]

That road used to be yellow on OS maps, meaning it was a public right of way. Unfortunanetely now it is a "white road" meaning no right of way is implied by the map, IIRC.

That’s a shame. It is a very interesting walk so hopefully it stays publicly accessible.

 

[Arpley to SRH]

thanks for the recent replies

 

[Kite159]

That’s a shame. It is a very interesting walk so hopefully it stays publicly accessible.

One I might do next year (and follow bike route 5 from Elton via the Ince Marshes towards Frodsham). abandoned industrial buildings are interesting in their own unique ways.

 

[Pacef8]

Ince marsh is rough so don't choose a wet day .

 

[childwallblues]

Yep. Either

The only way that anything will happen on the Ellesmere Port to Helsby line is if there is funding from the good folks of Cheshire.

It is surely no coincidence that the two latest "Merseyrail" projects are on the boundary of, but within, the LCR region (Maghull North and Headbolt Lane).

And the next big financial project is probably Liverpool Baltic (which is clearly much more relevant to LCR).

It is also likely that Bidston-Wrexham developments will take precedent over anything Ellesmere Port-Helsby because the Welsh Government is prepared to engage financially.

I think that you are right. Both Merseyrail and the Welsh Government want massive improvements to the Borderlands line that can come from the introduction of the 777 units.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Last ran 23rd Oct. An illegal closure?

 

[1Z99]

Last ran 23rd Oct. An illegal closure?

Worse than that - 13th October.

 

[Travelmonkey]

According to RTT its been running as bus replacement. I wonder if they attemting to do a Wedgewood & Barlleston to the branch,

 

[1Z99]

According to RTT its been running as bus replacement. I wonder if they attemting to do a Wedgewood & Barlleston to the branch,

That's due to an engineering blockade on the Chester-Warrington Bank Quay line this week. Normal service (or lack of...) resumes Monday 20/11.

 

[L401CJF]

It's a strange one this line. I'd imagine if there was a more frequent service people would use it. For example I work for TFW as a guard, we sell/check a lot of tickets from Helsby/Frodsham to various Wirral Line stations who have to travel via Chester - plus plenty to Liverpool. In theory when the TFW Chester to Liverpool service returns to hourly instead of 2 hourly, a number of Liverpool passengers will head via Runcorn instead of Chester- but the frequency of the Merseyrail service is still favourable if for example you've just missed a TFW by 10mins.

The short lived Ellesmere Port to Leeds service didn't really get chance to pick up before being axed. My uncle was a regular user of this to Manchester and Leeds for business and was really impressed, as otherwise he either had to travel via Hooton and Chester (or Liverpool time depending). Saying that the demand would never match the numbers that the service picks up from Chester so it would make operational sense I suppose.

Being an Ellesmere Port resident myself the popular option seems to be to drive to the big cheap car park at Hooton (which also allows overnight parking as its a council car park unlike other Mersey stations) and go from there as its a much more frequent service compared to the every 30 min E Port line.

I've said it somewhere on this forum before, but going back a few decades a lot of Shell workers used the line. Of course Stanlow has nowhere near as many staff as it used to, but my dad and plenty of his colleagues used to use the service from Bebington to Stanlow when he worked there. As electrification extended and the service was cut back they started commuting by car. Even saying that, despite lower refinery staff numbers these days there are plenty of other factories, offices, truckstops, depots and so on within the vicinity of the line with plenty of employees. Give the line a decent service and I'd imagine there would be demand for it once its bedded in.

We all know the only real option to reach maximum potential on the line is extension of Merseyrail services with battery 777s.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Ellesmere Port is now a virtual bus desert in the evenings, the only route being the no 1 Liverpool - E. Port - Cheshire Oaks - Chester service. This has now been cut to a 70 minute frequency and goes nowhere near those parts of town which are nowhere near a railway station.

Chester West & Chester council doesn't have enough money to support a decent public transport system. But, ironically, the hourly daytime no 2 route between (Chester &) E. Port and Helsby (& Runcorn) is a good as it has ever been over the last 30-40 years.

 

[lrailadventure]

Worse than that - 13th October.

The train ran this morning and is planned to run again this evening.

Northern's drivers rest day working agreement started today so possibly a more regular service from now on?

 

[frodshamfella]

It's a strange one this line. I'd imagine if there was a more frequent service people would use it. For example I work for TFW as a guard, we sell/check a lot of tickets from Helsby/Frodsham to various Wirral Line stations who have to travel via Chester - plus plenty to Liverpool. In theory when the TFW Chester to Liverpool service returns to hourly instead of 2 hourly, a number of Liverpool passengers will head via Runcorn instead of Chester- but the frequency of the Merseyrail service is still favourable if for example you've just missed a TFW by 10mins.

The short lived Ellesmere Port to Leeds service didn't really get chance to pick up before being axed. My uncle was a regular user of this to Manchester and Leeds for business and was really impressed, as otherwise he either had to travel via Hooton and Chester (or Liverpool time depending). Saying that the demand would never match the numbers that the service picks up from Chester so it would make operational sense I suppose.

Being an Ellesmere Port resident myself the popular option seems to be to drive to the big cheap car park at Hooton (which also allows overnight parking as its a council car park unlike other Mersey stations) and go from there as its a much more frequent service compared to the every 30 min E Port line.

I've said it somewhere on this forum before, but going back a few decades a lot of Shell workers used the line. Of course Stanlow has nowhere near as many staff as it used to, but my dad and plenty of his colleagues used to use the service from Bebington to Stanlow when he worked there. As electrification extended and the service was cut back they started commuting by car. Even saying that, despite lower refinery staff numbers these days there are plenty of other factories, offices, truckstops, depots and so on within the vicinity of the line with plenty of employees. Give the line a decent service and I'd imagine there would be demand for it once its bedded in.

We all know the only real option to reach maximum potential on the line is extension of Merseyrail services with battery 777s.

Its been such a poor service for so long.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Interestingly there were warnings on local radio that services on the Warrington BQ - Chester line were being disrupted on Monday morning by safety checks, so the resumption came as a bit of a surprise. The first Helsby - Ellesmere Port train starts at Liverpool LS at 0510, of course, and continues via Warrington BQ. It left Warrington BQ 18 mins late.

 

[paddyb6]

Interestingly there were warnings on local radio that services on the Warrington BQ - Chester line were being disrupted on Monday morning by safety checks, so the resumption came as a bit of a surprise. The first Helsby - Ellesmere Port train starts at Liverpool LS at 0510, of course, and continues via Warrington BQ. It left Warrington BQ 18 mins late.

Got to be the first passenger train down the route since 13th Oct?

 

[mangyiscute]

Interestingly this morning while the service was cancelled, the train still ran, but Northern just sent it straight from Liverpool to Chester not in service rather than do the Ellesmere Port bit as a passenger service, but it still formed its usual Chester to Stockport service - wonder what the reason for this was since there weren't any delays or anything like that, my only guess is that the guard or whoever couldn't make it to the train until Chester.