Imberbus 2023

[341o2]

I note a few changes.
Firstly, there are now only 2 prices available - £10 adult, £2 child, the Warminster - Imber only fare withdrawn.
Secondly, buses will only now only stop at recognised bus stops.
Access is the same as in 2022, only buses involved in the event are permitted to access the military roads, and all other road users are prohibited including bicycles and pedestrians.

Mod note: source required, please

 

[MasterSpenny]

Anyone know what is being represented by various operators this year? I heard on X that Go Ahead London is using RML2318, but not an electric bus. EP1 was there last year.

https://x.com/go_ahead_london/status/1689182517021032448?s=46&t=NwCcaynuPR-k7xjMa0OtGQ

‘Go-Ahead London has a long association with this interesting gathering, which sees a timetabled procession of mostly heritage buses visit the abandoned village of Imber in Wiltshire.

This year, RML2318 (CUV318C) will represent the company, in the capable hands of Dave Warran, a night controller based at Stockwell, and Micky Webber, a Camberwell driver.

Delivered to London Transport in late 1965 by the Associated Equipment Company (AEC) and Park Royal Vehicles (PRV), RML2318 was initially allocated to country duties and it therefore carried a green livery. In early 1978 it transferred to the red network and in the early 1990's it was one of around 500 Routemaster Long (RML) vehicles to be refurbished.

Acquired by The Go-Ahead Group in 1994 during privatisation of the capital's buses, RML2318 latterly worked Route 36 from New Cross Garage before joining Go-Ahead London's commercial department in 2005, whereupon it was converted to open-top.

Ever popular, this near 58-year-old icon now carries a red and white colour scheme with gold 'GENERAL' bodywork lettering, reminiscent of a design adopted by the original London General Omnibus Company.

We are London's largest bus company and a part of The Go-Ahead Group, an international provider of passenger transport.’

 

[Titfield]

Planning on going on Imberbus but have to be in Greater Manchester by early evening so will just do a couple of round trips depending on what vehicles are available.

Not quite sure why they have changed the fare structure but anything that makes life easier for the volunteers must be good.

 

[Deerfold]

Imberbus 2023

Imberbus 2023 will be held on Saturday 19th August when up to 25 old and new Routemaster buses (plus a few guest vehicles) will operate from Warminster to Imber and other points on Salisbury …

imberbus.org

Imberbus 2023 will be held on Saturday 19th August when up to 25 old and new Routemaster buses (plus a few guest vehicles) will operate from Warminster to Imber and other points on Salisbury Plain.

This year, access to Imber on this date will only be possible using the Imberbuses themselves. Cars, motorbikes, cycles, scooters or pedestrians will not be permitted access to the military roads on this date, so if you want to drive your own vehicle to Imber, you will need to delay your trip until the following Bank Holiday weekend (for further details of other dates when the road through Imber is open, please visit the Imber Church website).

What we are planning for Imberbus 2023:
A summary of the timetable that we intend to operate can be downloaded by clicking here. A more detailed version of the timetable is available here and a full colour Event Guide will be available on the day (please click on the picture below if you would like a peek at it). Important features of this year’s Imberbus include:


At least 25 buses in operation, some of which will be wheelchair accessible.
Departures approximately every 15 minutes from Warminster Station to Imber from 9.45am onwards;
Buses serving Tilshead, Chitterne, New Zealand Farm Camp, West Lavington, Market Lavington and Brazen Bottom twice an hour throughout most of the day;
One morning and two afternoon journeys running direct between Warminster and Chitterne (not via Imber);
Most journeys will be operated by at least 2 vehicles;
A few “non-London” guest vehicles that have not visited Imber before;
Imber Church open for viewing and refreshments from 10am to 6pm;
Refreshments available from Caspers Cafe on platform 1 of Warminster Station and at the village halls in Tilshead and Chitterne;
The newly refurbished Market Lavington Museum will be open again in the Old School House next to the village church and serving cream teas until 5pm;
A small transport sales stall is expected to be available inside Tilshead village hall.
Direct National Express coach from London and Basingstoke.

 

[341o2]

I note a few changes.
Firstly, there are now only 2 prices available - £10 adult, £2 child, the Warminster - Imber only fare withdrawn.
Secondly, buses will only now only stop at recognised bus stops.
Access is the same as in 2022, only buses involved in the event are permitted to access the military roads, and all other road users are prohibited including bicycles and pedestrians.

Mod note: source required, please

Post no4 has provided the answer at https://imberbus.org/faq/

 

[MasterSpenny]

What else is there today? For those of you wondering, GAL did there preparations at Camberwell.
PS: if you click on the link and look closely on the last image a new Ee is there

https://twitter.com/Go_Ahead_London/status/1692427127738560732?s=20

Imberbus is an annual transport event focused on a classic bus service across the Salisbury Plain to the lost village of Imber. In advance of tomorrow's gathering, Go-Ahead London's Dave Warran and Micky Webber are seen preparing RML2318 for the 101-mile trip from Camberwell Garage to Wiltshire. Dave said: "Imber has grown in popularity since the first service ran in 2009 and it is now a firm favourite in the bus enthusiast calendar. At least 25 vehicles are due to operate this year, including some from outside the capital and the Go-Ahead London team is really looking forward to participating." Micky stated: "Not only is this a great day out, it also raises funds for local good causes, plus the Royal British Legion Poppy Day Appeal. I love getting into the cab of a Routemaster and it is a joy to see so many happy faces as I collect passengers." David Cutts, Go-Ahead London's Managing Director, added: "Go-Ahead London has a long association with Imberbus and we are delighted to once again join others in offering this unique service. Well done to all involved." We are London's largest bus company and a part of
@TheGoAheadGroup
, an international provider of passenger transport.

 

[Titfield]

What the xxxx happened today?
Was at Warminster and the queues were stupendous - all the way past Aldi and down the road.
Full buses all the time.
I have never seen such queues.
Incident at Gorse Cross involving a Borismaster with a rear wheel off the edge of the road and onto sunken verge. Didnt look serious so should have been sorted fairly easily.
BTW it was an excellent event with loads of unusual vehicles including The Delaine Tiger Bus, Two Lodekkas, and RMC Coach to name a few.

 

[WibbleWobble]

At one point the queue was stretched back to the rear of Argos - to the point it was causing issues with delivery trucks struggling to get in and out. An hour to get to the front of the queue. Seemed to be a case of not enough buses and way more people than expected.

Traffic was pretty bad in Warminster due to people finding places to park. The organisers could probably do with finding a large out of town field or something similar to use for parking. I do wonder if registering the service in two parts may help, with Imber to Warminster (or alternative facility) registered as "at frequent intervals", so buses can just "load and go".

 

[306024]

Listening to a couple of staff it was simply more people than ever attending. Hope the event doesn't become too popular for its own good.

I was on the bus where the rear right wheel fell in the hole, with a crunch. Bus grounded, no chance of getting it out without assistance so everyone off.

Returning to Warminster station we were greeted with a number of GWR cancellations and one poor member of staff getting grief from someone. Shame Peter Hendy couldn't have used the bus he was driving to shift some of the passengers

 

[ChilternTurbo]

Listening to a couple of staff it was simply more people than ever attending. Hope the event doesn't become too popular for its own good.

I wonder if advanced ticketing might be the way forward? That would at least allow the organisers to have control over numbers and mitigate against potential crowd control issues. I think the organisers have reached a tipping point when it comes to numbers attending. I'm still grateful for the work that's put into this event though. Highlight for me was a lengthy trip on Metrobus M1.

It was my first Imberbus and I found it very enjoyable although the day was cut short for me as I headed back to Warminister for a late lunch and queues to get back to Imber were still huge. I'm glad that arrived early and was able to use the pay and display car park with ease.

 

[341o2]

Definitely far more crowded. Maybe the MOD's decision not to allow any other vehicles apart from buses associated with the event on the military roads has not helped, there is a car park at Imber for church visitors, but the MOD cited congestion at the village for making the day a car free one, and of course, can dictate what can take place.

There is also additional parking at Sack Hill, just past the military checkpoint, not sure how quickly that filled up

2017 was the first time I attended the event, and there were no huge crowds at Warminster station, you could board either the first or second bus on arrival. Yesterday, Chitterne was also chaotic from the start, even before the 1055 direct service from Warminster, the road blocked by crowds seemingly oblivious to their surroundings. One of the Routemasters also had a problem, after a short distance from Gore Cross on the way to the Lavingtons, came to a standstill, eventually turning around and coming back to Gore Cross

 

[MasterSpenny]

Reading Buses sent their Enviro 400 City 732 (GL23LDN), Stagecoach sent 11377 (Spirit of London II) [London] and 15089 (not sure which subsidiary this one is operated by since withdrawal from London service)
Abellio London sent Pride BYD/ ADL Enviro400 EV 3406 and LT999 to the event, and within the plain it broke down! Wonder how well that went
evidence:

Oops, there was an error! | The Bus Forum

Visit our forum at: tangytango.proboards.com

tangytango.proboards.com

https://twitter.com/SWTrainspotter/status/1692980585365422241?s=20

 

[Titfield]

Listening to a couple of staff it was simply more people than ever attending. Hope the event doesn't become too popular for its own good.

I was on the bus where the rear right wheel fell in the hole, with a crunch. Bus grounded, no chance of getting it out without assistance so everyone off.

Returning to Warminster station we were greeted with a number of GWR cancellations and one poor member of staff getting grief from someone. Shame Peter Hendy couldn't have used the bus he was driving to shift some of the passengers

Yes the possibility of the event becoming too popular for its own good struck me. If they require more marshalls than I would be happy to help. I have bus industry experience but sadly my d category entitlement expired a few years back.

 

[WibbleWobble]

There is also additional parking at Sack Hill, just past the military checkpoint, not sure how quickly that filled up

Space for 80 cars was quoted - and it was full. I would imagine the problem with parking there would be the potential for a very long wait for a bus due to those leaving Warminster generally being full.

I think the only "all day" car park that wasn't full was at the civic centre (behind Morrisons), which is about a 10 minute walk away. Everything closer to the station was full and queuing - the only one I didn't try was the railway station but given that was the cheapest car park, it probably was the first to fill up.

 

[Man of Kent]

Reading Buses sent their Enviro 400 City 732 (GL23LDN), Stagecoach sent 11377 (Spirit of London II) [London] and 15089 (not sure which subsidiary this one is operated by since withdrawal from London service)
Abellio London sent Pride BYD/ ADL Enviro400 EV 3406 and LT999 to the event, and within the plain it broke down! Wonder how well that went
evidence:

Oops, there was an error! | The Bus Forum

Visit our forum at: tangytango.proboards.com

tangytango.proboards.com

https://twitter.com/SWTrainspotter/status/1692980585365422241?s=20

15089 came from South East (Herne Bay).

 

[markymark2000]

I think the issue, rather than saying more people than normal attending, why isn't it being look at the fact that Warminster is really the only place where anyone can access the service if they don't have access to a car and for those with a car, the parking where you can access the 23A, is limited. Right now, you have to just go back and forth on the buses because at all of the termini, there is nothing there so you get off one bus and back on the next. This means people are basically stuck in the Imberbus network until they get back to Warminster and there's food and onward travel. Instead of focussing on just the 23A, why has no one tried a feeder route from Amesbury or Devizes? People can park in these towns and there is then also other public transport options available to help people access Imberbus from another direction (Amesbury has the X4 and Activ8 of course with links to Andover and Salisbury. Devizes has links to Swindon, Melksham, Bath). Having these other destinations would mean spreading out of visitors (as some people will spend a short time in a town to get food) and give visitors more ways to get to the event without being forced to go through Warminster which of course has the bottleneck. Also, these towns can benefit from the economic benefits of the hundreds of extra visitors.

 

[M803UYA]

I think the issue, rather than saying more people than normal attending, why isn't it being look at the fact that Warminster is really the only place where anyone can access the service if they don't have access to a car and for those with a car, the parking where you can access the 23A, is limited. Right now, you have to just go back and forth on the buses because at all of the termini, there is nothing there so you get off one bus and back on the next. This means people are basically stuck in the Imberbus network until they get back to Warminster and there's food and onward travel. Instead of focussing on just the 23A, why has no one tried a feeder route from Amesbury or Devizes? People can park in these towns and there is then also other public transport options available to help people access Imberbus from another direction (Amesbury has the X4 and Activ8 of course with links to Andover and Salisbury. Devizes has links to Swindon, Melksham, Bath). Having these other destinations would mean spreading out of visitors (as some people will spend a short time in a town to get food) and give visitors more ways to get to the event without being forced to go through Warminster which of course has the bottleneck. Also, these towns can benefit from the economic benefits of the hundreds of extra visitors.

There is a decent pub in Chitterne, but like you suggest extending the service at the northern end may help them. Additionally focusing on 'Imber' with a greater number of buses would reduce the wait for the assembled crowds but no doubt creates other problems.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think the issue, rather than saying more people than normal attending, why isn't it being look at the fact that Warminster is really the only place where anyone can access the service if they don't have access to a car and for those with a car, the parking where you can access the 23A, is limited. Right now, you have to just go back and forth on the buses because at all of the termini, there is nothing there so you get off one bus and back on the next. This means people are basically stuck in the Imberbus network until they get back to Warminster and there's food and onward travel. Instead of focussing on just the 23A, why has no one tried a feeder route from Amesbury or Devizes? People can park in these towns and there is then also other public transport options available to help people access Imberbus from another direction (Amesbury has the X4 and Activ8 of course with links to Andover and Salisbury. Devizes has links to Swindon, Melksham, Bath). Having these other destinations would mean spreading out of visitors (as some people will spend a short time in a town to get food) and give visitors more ways to get to the event without being forced to go through Warminster which of course has the bottleneck. Also, these towns can benefit from the economic benefits of the hundreds of extra visitors.

There is a decent pub in Chitterne, but like you suggest extending the service at the northern end may help them. Additionally focusing on 'Imber' with a greater number of buses would reduce the wait for the assembled crowds but no doubt creates other problems.

Amesbury has no rail link and no major car park so not exactly useful, and it's >20 miles along the A303. Even Devizes isn't exactly useful - hard to get to for people and not exactly close.

Two suggestions that would be more sensible. The Warminster event in the past used Crockerton Shopping Village as a location; don't know if they would appreciate people parking there? Perhaps more appropriate would be Westbury station - the car park is not intensively used on a weekend especially after it was extended.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Amesbury has no rail link and no major car park so not exactly useful, and it's >20 miles along the A303. Even Devizes isn't exactly useful - hard to get to for people and not exactly close.

Two suggestions that would be more sensible. The Warminster event in the past used Crockerton Shopping Village as a location; don't know if they would appreciate people parking there? Perhaps more appropriate would be Westbury station - the car park is not intensively used on a weekend especially after it was extended.

Unfortunately vehicle access to the station car park at Warminster is only possible from the South side, despite the car park being on the North side, and the bridge taking the railway over Station Road has an 8'3 (2.5m) height restriction.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Unfortunately vehicle access to the station car park at Warminster is only possible from the South side, despite the car park being on the North side, and the bridge taking the railway over Station Road has an 8'3 (2.5m) height restriction.

Wasn't even thinking of the north side of Warminster station

As I say, I'd be inclined to suggest Westbury as a hub, being a major junction and well served by rail

 

[CyrusWuff]

Wasn't even thinking of the north side of Warminster station

As I say, I'd be inclined to suggest Westbury as a hub, being a major junction and well served by rail

Oops. Skimmed the post and missed the mention of Westbury. Mea culpa!

 

[markymark2000]

Amesbury has no rail link and no major car park so not exactly useful, and it's >20 miles along the A303. Even Devizes isn't exactly useful - hard to get to for people and not exactly close

Very true it with the onward links, you are offering people opportunities to use other public transport. And even if it's used by 5% of people, the queues at Warminster are 5% lower. Devizes, I have listed the links which are available.


The suggestions of Westbury would be good but doesn't help that its all heavily weighted towards the western part so the same issues will exist. You need to spread out the demand to the east.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Very true it with the onward links, you are offering people opportunities to use other public transport. And even if it's used by 5% of people, the queues at Warminster are 5% lower. Devizes, I have listed the links which are available on Sundays. Swindon and Bath.


The suggestions of Westbury would be good but doesn't help that its all heavily weighted towards the western part so the same issues will exist. You need to spread out the demand to the east.

Not certain why you mention Sundays?

Either which way, I think if you say that the rail hub is Westbury and get the train there and/or drive to Westbury, that people will do that. Warminster has the problem that the train station is immediately adjacent the Central Car Park so on a Saturday, the area is already fairly busy with shoppers etc and even the local buses that use the area. Westbury doesn't have nearly the same issue as the station is located away from the town centre. It has the advantage of having rail services from London and Reading, Swindon and Chippenham, Taunton, and from Bristol and Bath. Yes, there is some demand from the East (from Southampton and Salisbury) and whilst they pass through Warminster, it's only 8 mins.

If we're talking about people driving to the event, then it's easier to get to Westbury from the North (A350) and West (A36) and it really isn't that far to go from the Warminster bypass; I drive it regularly.

Devizes does actually have a good place to have an event...on the site of the old station (on Station Road, naturally) but it's a bit of a faff and having multiple hubs for feeders puts more strain on the organisers.

 

[M803UYA]

Amesbury has no rail link and no major car park so not exactly useful, and it's >20 miles along the A303. Even Devizes isn't exactly useful - hard to get to for people and not exactly close.

Two suggestions that would be more sensible. The Warminster event in the past used Crockerton Shopping Village as a location; don't know if they would appreciate people parking there? Perhaps more appropriate would be Westbury station - the car park is not intensively used on a weekend especially after it was extended.

Salisbury has been served by some extended 23s on Warminster running days before - those passed Stonehenge and Amesbury on their way there.

Gather the city is popular with our Russian friends, so might have some potential for Andover/Basingstoke/London bound travellers. Westbury is a decent shout too.

 

[markymark2000]

Not certain why you mention Sundays?

Got my days mixed up (been a long few weeks). For Saturdays, you could VERY easily increase the amount of transport links to the event though, ask Salisbury Reds (given Go South Coast is already a big supporter of the event) to divert into Gore Cross Interchange. A time penalty of a few minutes but gives GoAhead get a decent additional revenue stream. Possibly see about doing a one day increased timetable if it's popular. This would get more people to start their days at the eastern end of the route which would ease pressure on the Westbury/Warminster side.

I think if you say that the rail hub is Westbury and get the train there and/or drive to Westbury, that people will do that. Warminster has the problem that the train station is immediately adjacent the Central Car Park so on a Saturday, the area is already fairly busy with shoppers etc and even the local buses that use the area. Westbury doesn't have nearly the same issue as the station is located away from the town centre. It has the advantage of having rail services from London and Reading, Swindon and Chippenham, Taunton, and from Bristol and Bath. Yes, there is some demand from the East (from Southampton and Salisbury) and whilst they pass through Warminster, it's only 8 mins.

Given the route of the 23A, you would have to serve Westminster anyway. At Westbury, you may have the space for more buses but people are still going to be stuck with a certain flow of people, very heavy from Westbury in the morning, very heavy to Westbury in the afternoon. That is the issue at Warminster and would still be the issue at Westbury. Onward links yes, wonderful, great benefits and ones that I fully agree with but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of the flow of passengers. If anything, for the reasons mentioned (large car park and better access by trains to a lot more destinations), it has the potential to make the queues longer.

I just want to say, I am not suggesting Westbury isn't a good idea, I am merely saying that it would be unlikely to solve some of the current issues facing Imberbus and as such, should be done as well as improving access at the eastern end.

Devizes does actually have a good place to have an event...on the site of the old station (on Station Road, naturally) but it's a bit of a faff and having multiple hubs for feeders puts more strain on the organisers.

But having 100s of people in a queue at Warminster with some people queuing for an hour isn't a strain on organisers?

 

[Goldfish62]

I drove at Imber last year, but couldn't make it this year. I'm glad that the case!

Of course, this was the first normal Imber since 2019, having been hampered over the past few years by Covid, poor weather and a rail strike.

 

[341o2]

Imber Church, Tilshead, Chitterne, and Market Lavington? all serve light refreshments (tea and biscuit/cakes). Tilshead also has a garage with shop attached and a toilet. It was the first Imberbus I have attended that was not entirely enjoyable. The decision not to purchase a ticket in my case is justified, because I just cannot stand in a queue for a lengthy period of time, and I decided to take my photographs at remote locations, principally between Tilshead and Chitterne. As someone has already said, what if all the buses are full, and therefore don't stop?

There is also the issue of no mobile phone signal at Imber; are there any other areas on the Imberbus routes with no signal?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Given the route of the 23A, you would have to serve Westminster anyway. At Westbury, you may have the space for more buses but people are still going to be stuck with a certain flow of people, very heavy from Westbury in the morning, very heavy to Westbury in the afternoon. That is the issue at Warminster and would still be the issue at Westbury. Onward links yes, wonderful, great benefits and ones that I fully agree with but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem of the flow of passengers. If anything, for the reasons mentioned (large car park and better access by trains to a lot more destinations), it has the potential to make the queues longer.

Westminster? I mean, they're most London buses but....

The buses will still serve Warminster but the Central Car Park is busy on a Saturday morning.

• Could be that you have some 23X services that run from Westbury and simply don't stop in Warminster
• Another option is to approach someone like Lyons - don't know if they work Saturdays so is their car park an option?
• Crockerton was used by the old Warminster event but not certain if they'd welcome that OR
• Do it on a Sunday?

Queues could be longer at Westbury but the reality is that you don't have the conflict with other people to nearly the same effect, and there's a lot more room to manage the situation.

But having 100s of people in a queue at Warminster with some people queuing for an hour isn't a strain on organisers?

Dis-economies of scale - more hubs means more people to organise and manage it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2023 ==

Imber Church, Tilshead, Chitterne, and Market Lavington? all serve light refreshments (tea and biscuit/cakes). Tilshead also has a garage with shop attached and a toilet. It was the first Imberbus I have attended that was not entirely enjoyable. The decision not to purchase a ticket in my case is justified, because I just cannot stand in a queue for a lengthy period of time, and I decided to take my photographs at remote locations, principally between Tilshead and Chitterne. As someone has already said, what if all the buses are full, and therefore don't stop?

There is also the issue of no mobile phone signal at Imber; are there any other areas on the Imberbus routes with no signal?

Depending on the network, Chitterne can be a dead spot. It's on my route from the the A36 to the A303 and I make sure any call is done by the time I reach there

 

[markymark2000]

Westminster? I mean, they're most London buses but....

I give up. I actually give up. Clearly it's time to go back to bed haha.

Queues could be longer at Westbury but the reality is that you don't have the conflict with other people to nearly the same effect, and there's a lot more room to manage the situation.

That is certainly a bonus but doesn't take away from the fact that it's heavily weighted towards people arriving from the western part of the route in the morning and people wishing to return there in the evening. It doesn't matter how people access the event because it's the only point.

You seem to think I am saying 'Westbury shouldn't happen'. What I am actually saying is more consideration should be put onto a hub at the eastern end. Without better access and interchange at the eastern end, nothing you do will help things really as people arriving from the Wiltshire direction are FORCED to go to Warminster (or Westbury possibly) because that is the public transport interchange and also where the parking. An eastern link connecting at Gore Cross would mean people could park in other nearby towns and use transport links on the other end to access the event

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I give up. I actually give up. Clearly it's time to go back to bed haha.


That is certainly a bonus but doesn't take away from the fact that it's heavily weighted towards people arriving from the western part of the route in the morning and people wishing to return there in the evening. It doesn't matter how people access the event because it's the only point.

You seem to think I am saying 'Westbury shouldn't happen'. What I am actually saying is more consideration should be put onto a hub at the eastern end. Without better access and interchange at the eastern end, nothing you do will help things really as people arriving from the Wiltshire direction are FORCED to go to Warminster (or Westbury possibly) because that is the public transport interchange and also where the parking. An eastern link connecting at Gore Cross would mean people could park in other nearby towns and use transport links on the other end to access the event

It's only four miles further on by car to Westbury; if you're driving down from Greater London, four miles isn't the greatest imposition. For folks coming from the East by rail, it's nothing - 8 mins onward from Salisbury, and easier for those coming from London/Reading who can travel direct.

As I said before, Amesbury simply doesn't have a suitable location; there's the former bus station site that's now a car park but that's tiny, and same with the public carpark on the main road. Crockerton would be the better option as they used to use it on the old Warminster running day.

Main problem is the ongoing operation through the day and that's a lot less easily sorted as the Central Car Park is the only logical place. Perhaps having it on a Sunday is the more logical solution?