Imberbus 2023

[Busaholic]

Perhaps having it on a Sunday is the more logical solution?

Did it run on a Sunday in early years, or is it faulty memory on my part?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Did it run on a Sunday in early years, or is it faulty memory on my part?

IIRC, Imberbus has been a Saturday event except for one year when it might have been on the August bank holiday. The Warminster Running Day was a Sunday affair.

 

[markymark2000]

It's only four miles further on by car to Westbury; if you're driving down from Greater London, four miles isn't the greatest imposition. For folks coming from the East by rail, it's nothing - 8 mins onward from Salisbury, and easier for those coming from London/Reading who can travel direct.

As I said before, Amesbury simply doesn't have a suitable location; there's the former bus station site that's now a car park but that's tiny, and same with the public carpark on the main road. Crockerton would be the better option as they used to use it on the old Warminster running day.

Main problem is the ongoing operation through the day and that's a lot less easily sorted as the Central Car Park is the only logical place. Perhaps having it on a Sunday is the more logical solution?

You have a lot of focus on people arriving by car, is the attitude to stuff everyone else who isn't arriving by car? Your obsession with excessive car parking seems to suggest so! For those arriving by public transport, an eastern link to Gore Cross, however it is done, would open up more opportunities.

You are also STILL ignoring the basic FACT that there is only so much capacity at the western end so the time it takes to get people into the event is far longer than it should be. If Wembley stadium told everyone that only one door was open to enter the stadium, the queue would be a damn sight longer than when all of the doors are open and people have lots of ways to access the event. It's the same here. Because there is only one entry to the event (bearing in mind there is no public transport access or meaningful parking elsewhere on the 23A, it means there is only one entrance), the queues are a lot longer. Your solution seems to constantly be more buses on the western part (which in turn means more buses running basically empty in one direction at the start and ends of the day) or improve access at the eastern end. As I have also kept saying, I used Amesbury as a close example trying to keep PVR low. Yet you seem to be running with it despite the fact I have offered alternatives since then.

 

[duncombec]

[...] For those arriving by public transport, an eastern link to Gore Cross, however it is done, would open up more opportunities. [...]

Is it possible that the MOD may have preferences as to where the majority of people enter the area as part of their access and security arrangements? Notably, when access is permitted to the church by convoy the meeting point is Vedette Post 2... in Warminster. The number of people wandering on at, say, Market Lavington, is clearly significantly smaller than those at Warminster.

On these published occasions access is only possible by escorted convoy both to and from Imber. The usual meeting point for starting a convoy is the Warminster Vedette Post No 2 (VP2)
To find VP2 you will need to make your way to postcode BA12 0DJ which is at Warminster Waterloo Lines (formerly the Land Warfare centre) [...]

I can't see why the organizers wouldn't share the situation with you if you asked... they may even appreciate the additional help were you to volunteer to come up with a workable plan. Bearing in mind the MOD severely restricts access to significantly lower than the maximum number of days allowed, perhaps the organizers are aware that rocking the boat may result in it being capsized, and permission for the event withdrawn or restricted yet further?

I didn't go this year, but I do recall speaking to one of the controllers/organizers the last occasion I did go (either 2018 or 2019), who said they were starting to have real problems with whole tour groups turning up who hadn't informed them in advance, thus taking up entire departures into the village proper, whereas if they'd been told, they could (and had) arranged special departures. Did anyone who was there this year notice anything of that sort?

 

[Goldfish62]

Nice video of the event by Leon Daniels:

 

[M803UYA]

You have a lot of focus on people arriving by car, is the attitude to stuff everyone else who isn't arriving by car? Your obsession with excessive car parking seems to suggest so! For those arriving by public transport, an eastern link to Gore Cross, however it is done, would open up more opportunities.

Most visitors will come by car - whereas Westbury is a handy railhead off the London Paddington line as most if not all westbound trains stop. Likewise at Salisbury from Waterloo, though you can change there for Warminster off the Southampton line.

 

[Goldfish62]

Bearing in mind the MOD severely restricts access to significantly lower than the maximum number of days allowed, perhaps the organizers are aware that rocking the boat may result in it being capsized, and permission for the event withdrawn or restricted yet further?

Last year permission to enter the site to set up the stops etc as usual on the Friday afternoon was withdrawn by the MOD at very short notice due to a large number of Ukrainian soldiers undertaking live firing exercises until the Saturday morning.

It is first and foremost a military training ground (a very big one - larger than the Isle of Wight) and permission to enter can be withdrawn at any time including permanently. In the past there have been issues with the public straying into restricted areas which nearly resulted public access being banned permanently.

 

[306024]

Nice video of the event by Leon Daniels

Including the bus in the pothole at 0:34.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You have a lot of focus on people arriving by car, is the attitude to stuff everyone else who isn't arriving by car? Your obsession with excessive car parking seems to suggest so! For those arriving by public transport, an eastern link to Gore Cross, however it is done, would open up more opportunities.

You are also STILL ignoring the basic FACT that there is only so much capacity at the western end so the time it takes to get people into the event is far longer than it should be. If Wembley stadium told everyone that only one door was open to enter the stadium, the queue would be a damn sight longer than when all of the doors are open and people have lots of ways to access the event. It's the same here. Because there is only one entry to the event (bearing in mind there is no public transport access or meaningful parking elsewhere on the 23A, it means there is only one entrance), the queues are a lot longer. Your solution seems to constantly be more buses on the western part (which in turn means more buses running basically empty in one direction at the start and ends of the day) or improve access at the eastern end. As I have also kept saying, I used Amesbury as a close example trying to keep PVR low. Yet you seem to be running with it despite the fact I have offered alternatives since then.

I don't think that's valid; as well as private car, I have already mentioned about the rail services and Westbury viz:

It has the advantage of having rail services from London and Reading, Swindon and Chippenham, Taunton, and from Bristol and Bath. Yes, there is some demand from the East (from Southampton and Salisbury) and whilst they pass through Warminster, it's only 8 mins.

Westbury rail station is, by far, the most obvious public transport hub in which to travel into the area. Think about it....

• If travelling from the deep South West (e.g. Taunton) then you have to change at Westbury to get to Warminster
• From South Wales, Bristol and Bath, you pass through Westbury before Warminster
• If coming from the East and travelling from London (or Reading), then you'd have to change at Westbury for Warminster anyway
  • It is only a limited number of places such as Basingstoke (where you'd have to change at Salisbury) or Portsmouth/Southampton (which goes through Salisbury) where it's a case of passing through Warminster before Westbury - only 8 mins (and you get a longer bus ride the other way).

Even on the bus, the D1 passes Westbury station for those fancying a trip from Bath and TrowVegas.

I think @M803UYA is probably on the money in that most people are going to travel by car and that's part of the problem; lots of additional cars along with the Warminster shopping trade in a relatively small car park, and a load of red double deckers! Lord knows, I'm not anti-public transport - I'm just being realistic and I'm very familiar with the area.

I didn't go this year, but I do recall speaking to one of the controllers/organizers the last occasion I did go (either 2018 or 2019), who said they were starting to have real problems with whole tour groups turning up who hadn't informed them in advance, thus taking up entire departures into the village proper, whereas if they'd been told, they could (and had) arranged special departures. Did anyone who was there this year notice anything of that sort?

Perhaps there has to be some sort of advanced booking so they know the likely number of people they are going to get?

Last year permission to enter the site to set up the stops etc as usual on the Friday afternoon was withdrawn by the MOD at very short notice due to a large number of Ukrainian soldiers undertaking live firing exercises until the Saturday morning.

It is first and foremost a military training ground (a very big one - larger than the Isle of Wight) and permission to enter can be withdrawn at any time including permanently. In the past there have been issues with the public straying into restricted areas which nearly resulted public access being banned permanently.

The by-law (which I think was created in the 1960s after mass trespass events) allows a max of 50 days per year but they can, of course, be varied according to operational requirements. Usually, they have Easter (so the service at the church can be done) and at Christmas; in fact, they have a cross-country running race called Plain Crazy between Christmas and New Year where you run from Warminster, along the perimeter path towards Edington, then into the Plain (but not as far as Imber) and back to Warminster. It is apparently....bleak!

The main access is during the summer holidays but with Ukraine etc, things are a little busier than they have been in recent years.

 

[Busaholic]

IIRC, Imberbus has been a Saturday event except for one year when it might have been on the August bank holiday. The Warminster Running Day was a Sunday affair.

Ah, yes, thanks, that's what I remember reading about.

 

[markymark2000]

Westbury rail station is, by far, the most obvious public transport hub in which to travel into the area. Think about it....

Show me where I have said Westbury shouldn't be considered or I am so against Westbury. I have said previously that I agree with it. It should be considered AS WELL AS other improvements at the eastern end.

I think @M803UYA is probably on the money in that most people are going to travel by car and that's part of the problem; lots of additional cars along with the Warminster shopping trade in a relatively small car park, and a load of red double deckers! Lord knows, I'm not anti-public transport - I'm just being realistic and I'm very familiar with the area.

How many people are arriving by car because of the lack of transport options? Westbury considerably helps that for many destinations however eastern access via Gore Cross Interchange could further help that though for others who may live or have accommodation at towns to the east. Better access could reduce the amount of people travelling by car to the event.

This isn't a case of either/or as you seem to keep implying that I am saying. It is not Westbury vs eastern access and so why you keep acting like that is what I am saying, I don't know but I'd ask for you to stop trying to make it into a battle of the towns/suggestions. There is no reason why both can't be done (unless it is as duncombec has said in #34).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Show me where I have said Westbury shouldn't be considered or I am so against Westbury. I have said previously that I agree with it. It should be considered AS WELL AS other improvements at the eastern end.

I won't show you because you've not said, and I've not accused you of saying it

How many people are arriving by car because of the lack of transport options? Westbury considerably helps that for many destinations however eastern access via Gore Cross Interchange could further help that though for others who may live or have accommodation at towns to the east. Better access could reduce the amount of people travelling by car to the event.

This isn't a case of either/or as you seem to keep implying that I am saying. It is not Westbury vs eastern access and so why you keep acting like that is what I am saying, I don't know but I'd ask for you to stop trying to make it into a battle of the towns/suggestions. There is no reason why both can't be done (unless it is as duncombec has said in #34).

There are clearly public transport options - as I've stated, you can get to Warminster or Westbury by train from the West, North, South West, South East and Greater London.

Your theory is perfectly valid in that you can have hubs all over Wiltshire if you fancy it. However, it means more organisational resource - FACT - more permissions to be sorted - FACT - and it may well have relatively little impact on car drivers who will probably drive anyway because there are clearly rail and bus options already available to them yet choose to drive.

I've only lived in the area for the last dozen years and my wife's family have lived there for many more, so what do I know? At that point, I think I'll call it a day.

 

[341o2]

Last year permission to enter the site to set up the stops etc as usual on the Friday afternoon was withdrawn by the MOD at very short notice due to a large number of Ukrainian soldiers undertaking live firing exercises until the Saturday morning.

It is first and foremost a military training ground (a very big one - larger than the Isle of Wight) and permission to enter can be withdrawn at any time including permanently. In the past there have been issues with the public straying into restricted areas which nearly resulted public access being banned permanently.

A point well worth making, and it is not just the issue of trespass. After decades of Army exercises, who knows what is lying around in the form of unexploded ammunition?

A report states that around 4,000 came to ride on the buses, double the previous amount, which explains a lot. Not only were there lengthy queues at Warminster and Imber, but those selling refreshments sold out.

Youtube video BBC South regarding the event

 

[Titfield]

A point well worth making, and it is not just the issue of trespass. After decades of Army exercises, who knows what is lying around in the form of unexploded ammunition?

A report states that around 4,000 came to ride on the buses, double the previous amount, which explains a lot. Not only were there lengthy queues at Warminster and Imber, but those selling refreshments sold out.

Youtube video BBC South regarding the event

When I went out on exercises armed with a .303 rifle we were issued with a small number of live or blank rounds. At the end of the exercise we had to hand in any unspent ammunition and the spent cartridge cases. We had to stand to attention, salute and make a declaration "I have no live rounds or empty cases in my possession Sir." Making a false declaration was a breach of discipline and would lead to further action being taken. Inevitably though occasion someone had lost a cartridge case which caused issues. Usually a very thorough search of the area to find any case would take place so as to enable the correct number to be handed in.

 

[341o2]

Be that as it may, in August 2022, military activity on Salisbury Plain resulted in four fires, two near the Lavingtons.

I met this morning with Dorset and Wiltshire Fire and Rescue Service Assistant Chief Fire Officer Andy Cole to review what happened. I am full of respect for the many firefighters who attended and the brave work they did in very difficult circumstances. The fires were mostly in ‘impact areas’ which have tight restrictions due to unexploded ordinance - some areas cannot be accessed by humans at all, which made firefighting rather difficult. The role of a helicopter with buckets of water was therefore essential - though even this had to fly at over 200 metres, far higher than usual and therefore less effective, because of the danger of munitions going off beneath it as the fire reached them (as did in fact happen).

https://www.dannykruger.org.uk/news...itary-land-across-salisbury-plain-2-august-22