Season Ticket Holder Discrimination

[HST Power]

Then again, if you did read all ticket the conditions, at least that would pass the time!

 

[jon0844]

If you read the T&Cs you'd possibly refuse to buy a ticket! Of course, with competition you could then opt to travel by another operator with different terms.

Oh wait, no you couldn't...!

 

[HST Power]

If you read the T&Cs you'd possibly refuse to buy a ticket! Of course, with competition you could then opt to travel by another operator with different terms.

Oh wait, no you couldn't...!

There all the same!

 

[Domeyhead]

There all the same!

Intersting comment! I use three different TOCs regularly on my journeys to and from work (SWT FGW and X country) and another (Southern) regularly and there are some aspects of the "customer experience" (ugh) that each excels at compared to its fellow TOCs. There are also areas where each is identifiably the worst. It needs a new thread to discuss this but JonMorris's astute observation about the lack of true competition between them removes any need for them to adopt "best of Breed" practices.

 

[HST Power]

Intersting comment! I use three different TOCs regularly on my journeys to and from work (SWT FGW and X country)

Three TOCs! You must get around a bit!

 

[Old Timer]

I continue to be surprised at Old Timer who defends a system (and a TOC) that none of us find fair when executed "at the coal face".

With respect, I don't think I have. What I have tried to do is to explain the basis upon which your Season Ticket is issued and the fact that you are getting a discount way over and above the irregular traveller, even before any extra days are added. In many ways the Railways forced to go way and beyond what other comparative Industries are let alone, Utilities. For example having recently had a power cut I am advised that I can go whistle for any form of recompense because nothing is due until 24 hours have elapsed.

Money which is paid to passengers simply takes money out of the system and causes the Industry to spend absolutely HUGE sums on delay attribution systems and administrative systems which do nothing other than promulgate a blame culture. Ultimately it is this blame culture and compensation system which is making the track access for maintenance and renewals so difficult, which again in turn leads to unreliability. There is no such thing as a free dinner.

....I am pleased to say that the train operating companies which still seek to hide behind the Victorian device of a mass of legal "COnditions of Carriage" clauses which I seem to remember were once posted at every station are finding it harder to walk away from their obligations in the 21st century.

There will always be Conditions of Carriage simply because the attitude of passengers who seem to be very full of their "rights" yet loudly silent upon their own duties and responsibilities when using the Railway.

From what I hear however this delay repay may well get kicked into touch at some time for the reasons given above. The sooner the better as far as I am concerned as all it does is pander to the less pleasant side of the human character.

...(and btw "breake" was clearly a typographical error though I thank him for pointing it out, unlike his use of "there" instead of "their" which is a grammatical error. Pedantry just gets in the way of more interesting debate so let's agree to drop it )

Touche

Please don't censor his comments on my account - I take them in the spirit in which they were given and they don't hurt!

Thank you - and it WAS in the spirit of cut and thrust and to my and probably your mind not offensive, more dry humour than sharpened stiletto !

However I would not seek to argue with the Moderator on the decision.

I think in fairness we have debated sharply and with spirit. I doubt there is much more to be said of substance.

I wish you well, and fewer delayed journeys !

 

[Domeyhead]

Well said, and thank you.

 

[phil35]

I do love a happy ending

 

[HST Power]

I do love a happy ending

Champagne and fireworks please!

 

[telstarbox]

If you can get delay repay on specific journeys with a season ticket, what's to stop me sitting in the office, using Live Departure Boards to spot trains on my route which are cancelled, then putting in a claim and saying I was on the cancelled service?

 

[swt_passenger]

If you can get delay repay on specific journeys with a season ticket, what's to stop me sitting in the office, using Live Departure Boards to spot trains on my route which are cancelled, then putting in a claim and saying I was on the cancelled service?

Nothing much to stop you really, AFAICS, but if they keep any sort of reasonable records after a while alarm bells would ring - particularly if you were found to be ten times more unlucky than everyone else in the trains you randomly happened to use...

AIUI from a previous poster's story here though, there doesn't seem to be a check that you aren't claiming for delay repay from one TOC and getting possible 'charter discounts' from another TOC that actually sold the season.

 

[HST Power]

If you can get delay repay on specific journeys with a season ticket, what's to stop me sitting in the office, using Live Departure Boards to spot trains on my route which are cancelled, then putting in a claim and saying I was on the cancelled service?

I never did this myself, but I knew more than a few colleagues who I worked with in London who did! I don't suppose there's anything to stop you at all, so long as you are careful, and don't put in too many claims.

 

[yorkie]

If you can get delay repay on specific journeys with a season ticket, what's to stop me sitting in the office, using Live Departure Boards to spot trains on my route which are cancelled, then putting in a claim and saying I was on the cancelled service?

A claim? Probably nothing would "stop" you. But someone who does that is quite possibly going to be tempted to put in another, then another... if someone is constantly delayed and has apparently erratic journeys but always at times of disruption it is going to be fairly easy to spot this behaviour and the person responsible could then be prosecuted for making fraudulent claims. A friend of mine told me this has happened, although I don't know the specific details of any cases.

 

[jon0844]

When One first introduced the scheme, there was a website that published the delays so people could claim en masse.

I have no idea if it still exists or is ever updated. It even made the papers I seem to recall.

 

[telstarbox]

It looks like this website does the same thing:

http://www.traindelays.co.uk/AboutUs.aspx

 

[HST Power]

Looks like a gold mine to me!

 

[Domeyhead]

The current system for season ticket holders as well as turn up and go passengers is easily abused for those with a mind to do so, particularly when using open stations, and the rewards of using a completely fake card could be significant. My photocard has a detachable photo - no inspector has even noticed, but in truth it matters not - anybody could produce a visually fair facsimile using a printer /copier costing no more than a couple of hundred pounds. The long term solution is portable on-train barcode or bluetooth readers linked to a shared TOC journey database, and wireless mobile comms feeding real time data in to it. It will come one day but it isn't there yet and passenger overcrowding means inspectors tend not to spend much time inspecting season tickets anyway.
But the point is well made by previous posters - Delay repay temptation for "real" season ticket holders (as opposed to serious fraudsters above who would not reveal themselves with a spurious claim) is feasible. All I can say is that in any given year the number of days on which qualifying delays DO occur and on which the genuine season ticket holder did not actually travel anyway would be small, and the effort of up front research offset against the likely reward and the risk of being caught out on CCTV (yes TOCs have done this!) would make it unlikely to ever be a serious career move for an average law abiding user!