Finsbury Park gates & new 'waiting area'

[jon0844]

I've been off for a bit (first in Spain then sick!) so when I got to Finsbury Park this morning I was quite surprised to see what they'd done with the empty shell on platforms 1/2 to give some more room ahead of the gates going in.

The empty shell.. has remained an empty shell, with all the windows removed to make it a nice little area that filled up with people who must think it looks rather odd. No shops, no seats.. very odd looking (I accept they might have plans to do something more later on). And, without any glass on the sides - it will be nice and cold when it's windy!

They're also getting ready for the gates, which I can now count as being four normal gates and a wide gate. That's not a lot and could replicate the mess at Welwyn Garden City. I am sure on football days, these gates will have to be let open so won't be doing much for revenue protection then.

I have to say, the word 'bodge' springs to mind. That is unless there's a phase 2 bit of development I'm not aware of.

 

[Fred26]

I've been meaning to get down and have a look at this myself, but haven't got around to it, so thanks for the photos.
Is that shell not going to be a funnel, of sorts, for people entering/exiting the platforms?

 

[jon0844]

Yes that seems to be what it was always put down on the plans as being for (work on building to facilitate installation of gates), and I guess the main building is either listed or would require MAJOR structural work to remove (and replace it with a roof) completely.

This is why I say 'bodge', as it's basically one long waiting room that is totally exposed to the elements from three sides now that every single window is a doorway - without doors!. It also looks totally out of place and I hope they don't now install loads of expensive and very un-eco friendly heaters inside to keep people warm.

Silly as it looks, the bigger problem is the number of gates. I do wonder if the bigger problem will be on platforms 5/6 though, when a train arrives from Moorgate that sees people leaving the station (either to get a bus, or change to the tube) and all the people coming from the tube are coming up to take a train. Five gates for two directions is going to get messy.

 

[Fred26]

I agree that it's a bodge. The best thing to do with Finsbury Park (other than demolish it and start again), would be to close one entrance (not the main entrance next to the bus station) and gate the main one. Or just gate both entrances - perhaps staff one with LU staff and one with FCC staff. However, public right of way and all that...

 

[jon0844]

Surely sooner or later they'll (as in the railway industry, either Network Rail or TfL) have to consider rebuilding the station, to offer step-free access to the various parts?

Of course, FCC wouldn't invest because a) the station isn't owned by them and b) their franchise is nearly up.

 

[jon0844]

Tonight at platforms 5/6:



Along with a view over at the new open-plan waiting room on platforms 1/2

 

[Fred26]

I'm not convinced that that's supposed to be a waiting room at all, Jon. Nice photo though - looks stylish. :P

 

[jon0844]

It has to be, given it has replaced the waiting room that was once there (next to the ladies toilet, now at the end).

Now, unless they plan to move the other staff office on the other side (Country end of platforms 1/2) and make that a public, sheltered, waiting area (with heating) then I am not sure what they plan to do.

The one on 5/6 was packed tonight given it's about 3 or 4 degrees outside.

 

[jon0844]

Some more photos, for no particular reason! Note, there is a heater - by the gates, so we know where staff will be standing!

 

[Fred26]

No, I'm quite sure that it's not a waiting room. I think the building has probably been changed like that so as to create more platform space in front of the barriers. It would be a tight gap otherwise.

 

[jon0844]

You are right. It isn't a waiting room, and the plans made it clear that area was to be opened to facilitate the installation of gates (by contrast, there's a lot more room on 5/6) but the fact is - it goes way back so there is no longer a waiting room at all on that side!

So, people are using it as a waiting area (if nothing else, it's under shelter) but there's no seating or heating. The sign saying 'waiting room' now has tape stuck over it.

I can't see how they can ever put in a waiting room now as there's no room anywhere - except for the building on the other side of the stairs, currently used for staff (drivers?). Now what I don't know is if there's a phase 2 plan to convert that into a waiting room and relocate the staff room to somewhere else (but where? platform 3?).

 

[Fred26]

I don't know about that. I would say, though, that people probably won't be waiting there for long, once the barriers are operational. They'll be very busy and with people walking past constantly, it probably won't be a great place to stand.

 

[jon0844]

This morning the platform was mostly empty, but yesterday the room was full up of people just standing around looking lost. It's such an odd structure, with loads of doorways but absolutely nothing inside.

Anyway, let's wait and see what they do because at the moment it's only there because they presumably couldn't knock that part of the building down entirely - thus having stacks of room without any obstructions.

 

[Fred26]

Exactly. It'll be a different story once the barriers are running.

 

[jon0844]

Gates update, and how it looks on platform 1/2 with the new open area.



It's going to be a nightmare.

1) People should leave themselves enough time to get up to the platform for their train, but many come from the tube (evening peak primarily) and any slight delay will have them rushing. Now they'll be hit by a queue at the top of the stairs.
2) FCC will struggle to cope with having to work out the priority of the gates for each direction.
3) If, like WGC, they open the gates, you still have people trying to come in and out through the same gate - and two can't cross each other at the same time, except perhaps the wide gate.
4) They have a sliding emergency barrier (not pictured here), but will they want to use them or just let people fight it out?
5) If you open the gates, you've lost the benefit of them.

Like WGC (which is almost the same, but with one less gate), they'll work fine during the off-peak periods. They'd also work well at night, but FCC won't be operating them after 8 or 9pm I'm certain.

The upside is there's CCTV watching them, so I presume that someone can remotely open the gates if it gets really bad and the staff on the ground can't cope? Does the emergency sliding barrier open manually or can that be done remotely?

 

[jon0844]

And on 5/6;

 

[causton]

And on 5/6;

View attachment 4877 View attachment 4878 View attachment 4879 View attachment 4880 View attachment 4881

Where are the Oyster readers on the barriers? Do they just come as a sticker and flick a virtual switch in the software, or have FCC messed up again?

(I normally wouldn't ask but this IS FCC...

 

[swt_passenger]

Where are the Oyster readers on the barriers? Do they just come as a sticker and flick a virtual switch in the software, or have FCC messed up again?

(I normally wouldn't ask but this IS FCC...

Yes you are right. The yellow sticker just covers that grey plastic area, and the software will be set up to decide what it reads.

SWT's Cubic gates in places like Southampton are physically exactly the same as those in London, but read ITSO cards in exactly the same place.

You are probably aware of the TfL system's pink 'route validators' - again, they just change the vinyl - the hardware is identical.

 

[causton]

That's interesting. So I could go to the FCC stations north of London, open the booth and theoretically make the barriers think they are at an Oyster-accepting station and enable the Oyster readers

 

[Aictos]

You would be very popular at Potters Bar, Hatfield, Welwyn GC and Hertford then

 

[jon0844]

Do those gates actually have the NFC hardware behind the panel though? I'd expect not, as they're probably added via a module (costing more) when needed.

Once fitted, you then do the software change and put the appropriate sticker/branding on the top of the reader.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do those gates actually have the NFC hardware behind the panel though? I'd expect not, as they're probably added via a module (costing more) when needed.

Once fitted, you then do the software change and put the appropriate sticker/branding on the top of the reader.

I agree - no reason for them to have NFC readers in FCC land north of the current zones, so all a bit far fetched.

Which is why I limited my explanation to SWT's versions outside London that do have NFC readers...

 

[jon0844]

Seems FCC has now put in a new waiting area on platform 3/4!

 

[causton]

I agree - no reason for them to have NFC readers in FCC land north of the current zones, so all a bit far fetched.

There are the lights for the card reader present in them all - so I assumed the entire hardware kit was there. (May be wrong on that though)
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/PBR/images/photos/800/o2709-0000037.jpg

 

[button_boxer]

The gates at Derby certainly have NFC readers, although the only thing they appear to be used for at present is the smartcards issued to Derby College students (and presumably staff) to allow them to use the station footbridge to access the new college campus on the far side of the railway. Even the gateline staff use paper tickets to let people through the barriers, I'm surprised they can't use contactless cards for this purpose.

 

[Aictos]

Seems FCC has now put in a new waiting area on platform 3/4!

View attachment 4903

Sorry to disappoint you but it's not intended for that at all - it's for the contractors to use in connection with the major works on the platforms at Finsbury Park which will take a good couple of months to do.

 

[jon0844]

The shed isn't for public use? Well I never. I really hope you forgot to include a smiley there!!

 

[Skimble19]

Wouldn't surprise me if it was tho, in fact it's probably a better shelter than half the things on the stations elsewhere along the line..! :P

I believe that somewhere along the line the canopies will be extended, something to do with the new accessible footbridge that will be built to link the new platform.. no doubt someone else will have more details.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, there is now scaffolding up on platforms 5/6 with the roof being dismantled.

 

[Aictos]

Wouldn't surprise me if it was tho, in fact it's probably a better shelter than half the things on the stations elsewhere along the line..! :P

I believe that somewhere along the line the canopies will be extended, something to do with the new accessible footbridge that will be built to link the new platform.. no doubt someone else will have more details.

I can't find the document at the moment but I understand the canopies are all going to be extended as well as the platforms.

I think the intention is for passengers to use the full length of the platforms in comfort rather then congregate in one area and cause overcrowding.