Of course they have those obligations, it’s part of being a broadcaster in the UK. Hence why Ofcom are currently investigating to see if they’ve broken the rules.
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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
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DustyBin
Established Member
A lot of people turned to the likes of Talk TV exactly because the BBC failed to present balance or facts, or act impartially. In other words, they employed a bit of critical thinking.
(Apologies mods if we’re getting OT).
A 0.22% audience share is not a "lot"
DustyBin
Established Member
I meant a lot of their audience, I would have thought that was obvious!
Can we get back to discussing electric vehicles please.
Thanks
Thanks
Unfortunately that is not critical thinking but rather confirmation bias.
Can we get back to discussing electric vehicles please.
Thanks
Getting back on topic. The first major criticism of EVs was range anxiety, then as batteries improved it became charger anxiety. The charger network is expanding rapidly because of this and today the expanded Tesla supercharger (32 bays) and Gridserve station (24 bays) at Exeter services officially opened. But I’m having visions that the next major criticism of EVs is that the stations take up too much space and there’s no room for ‘normal’ cars…
EVs will be 'Normal' cars, that 'also rans' won't need much room whick will steadily shrink as they will be a dying breed anyway.
Charger installation rates are going exponential. There's hardly a.motorway services I've been to recently that hasn't had more chargers being installed, or installed awaiting switch on.
Tesla also have another biggish site at Darts Farm, a few miles from Exeter services.
thaitransit
Member
I would love to go EV but being based in Brisbane in an area that has zero public chargers within 20km of my home. Also much of my travels are to western and central Queensland with one way trips of upto 1600km. Once west of Toowoomba about 160km west of Brisbane there is zero public fast chargers. They best you can get are 240volt wall outlets at business or hotel. If very lucky some area have 415volt 3 phase supplys which support upto 22kw charging. Otherwise your stuck with 7kw charging for 90% of the trip!
Another issue is once west of Charleville about 800km west of Brisbane the gaps between towns really blow out with some gaps over 300km with zero options to stop in-between. Even in a petrol car you top off the tank before crossing these gaps just in case! There is only satellite phone available available between towns and trust me you don't want to run out! In summer if not prepared this could quickly become a life threatening issue!
West of Birdsville would be impossible in an EV as your only charging option is solar panels set out on the ground and its full off road conditions with multiple days of on route camping. Currently to do a simpson desert crossing you require long range fuel tanks and additional jerry cans just to have enough!
Also road conditions are poor in far western Queensland with mostly red earth highways which I don't know what impact that has on EV range performance?
Another factor is extreme heat in the summer that can exceed 50 degrees C what effect would this have on EV range?
So for me to go EV the range would need to be at least 1000km and support any charging options out there. Plus it would need to support 4wd and be able to handle extreme heat for long duration on rough roads.
Thankfully home charging in Brisbane would be available to me.
Another issue is once west of Charleville about 800km west of Brisbane the gaps between towns really blow out with some gaps over 300km with zero options to stop in-between. Even in a petrol car you top off the tank before crossing these gaps just in case! There is only satellite phone available available between towns and trust me you don't want to run out! In summer if not prepared this could quickly become a life threatening issue!
West of Birdsville would be impossible in an EV as your only charging option is solar panels set out on the ground and its full off road conditions with multiple days of on route camping. Currently to do a simpson desert crossing you require long range fuel tanks and additional jerry cans just to have enough!
Also road conditions are poor in far western Queensland with mostly red earth highways which I don't know what impact that has on EV range performance?
Another factor is extreme heat in the summer that can exceed 50 degrees C what effect would this have on EV range?
So for me to go EV the range would need to be at least 1000km and support any charging options out there. Plus it would need to support 4wd and be able to handle extreme heat for long duration on rough roads.
Thankfully home charging in Brisbane would be available to me.
Doesn’t this
make this
rather irrelevant?
Folk moan when they see one broken former Ecotricity unit at a motorway service station and use it as an excuse to claim EVs will never work. I suspect the same people will also moan that there is no room to park their ICE car! But I hope you are right!
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Indeed, and Osprey have 16 ultra rapids at Buckfastleigh. That part of Devon is becoming extremely well served!
make this
rather irrelevant?
Folk moan when they see one broken former Ecotricity unit at a motorway service station and use it as an excuse to claim EVs will never work. I suspect the same people will also moan that there is no room to park their ICE car! But I hope you are right!
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Indeed, and Osprey have 16 ultra rapids at Buckfastleigh. That part of Devon is becoming extremely well served!
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That was my thought as well, given the thread title says UK.
I suspect that such travel would be most suited to plug in hybrids as you could top up the fuel tank (as with an ICE), however would also gain the ability to get better (petrol) range from the regenerative brakes and the first (say) 40km being done by the battery.
I also guess that the numbers making such trips would be limited (especially given the comment about enlarged fuel tanks being needed). Potentially to the point that the numbers are similar to those driving from London to Snowdonia for a day trip without a break.
johncrossley
Established Member
In countries where a lot of people live in detached houses, home charging is far less of a problem than the UK.
It has nothing to do what type of property you live in (I live in a semi and it has a drive) but rather whether it has dedicated parking (which I believe is about 65% of households in the UK but happy to be corrected) or not. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere all new (and major refurbished) housing sites over 10 units in England have to provide EV charging or cable runs regardless of whether they are flats, terraced, semis or detached. If a current house doesn’t have dedicated parking one solution is lamp post (or similar) charging but that does require wider permissions. This has happened/is ongoing in London and few other places. Going forward other options might include the installation of charging gullies across/under pavements (although I think this will only work in certain places/streets) and longer term inductive charging.
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In Orpington, 33 new units (mixture of flats and houses) are planned to have just 3 disabled parking spaces, and no other parking facilities. Not sure where your EV cabling is in the plans, so either there is a let-out clause, or this is not being complied with.
johncrossley
Established Member
The point is, there is even less of a problem in those countries compared to the UK. The problem in the UK is not as bad as it is perceived.
If the units do not have parking it’s not required (the three provided spaces will require it I believe if the planning was post June 2022). The National Planning Policy Framework (NPPF) states:
107. If setting local parking standards for residential and non-residential development, policies should take into account:
a) the accessibility of the development;
b) the type, mix and use of development;
c) the availability of and opportunity for public transport;
d) local car ownership levels; and
e) the need to ensure an adequate provision of spaces for charging plug-in and other ultra-low emission vehicles.
Outside of a handful of areas mostly in very central urban sites where it is assumed (rightly or wrongly) that the residents will use public transport and there will be very limited car ownership, the vast vast majority of new development (on a scale above 10 units) is likely to include assigned parking in which case the rules apply. Units without parking don’t sell in vast majority of locations.
Yes about a third of homes don't have a dedicated parking space but it varies a lot with more rural areas being about 16% but upto 66% in some urban city areas.
DustyBin
Established Member
I strongly suspect that the percentage of households with access to a car is lower in those urban areas; I’m happy to be proven wrong though!
It's certainly the case for London that car ownership is well below the national average, conversely some semi rural locations the car ownership rates are so high that if they were to drop to the national average you could easily build 10% more homes in that district and not see the total car ownership value increase.
Yes, a proportion of the 35% of households without access to dedicated parking will not have a car anyway because other means suit their needs. So although 35% is a fairly high figure it’s probably not actually as high as this.
Plenty of people complain about parking their car today and they're not even trying to charge!
With the growth in car ownership many residential streets simply can't cope, and as more houses are/were converted to HMOs the problem got even worse.
If someone is buying or renting a house, surely it's their responsibility to determine where they might park a vehicle they own (or indeed, two or more vehicles, they might own). There's no given right to park on a street for example.
As @Noddy says above, not everyone has a car though - and if we invested more in public transport and providing better cycling infrastructure, a lot of people wouldn't ever feel the need to get one (besides perhaps the odd rental). Indeed, a lot of people never even bother to learn to drive at all.
With the growth in car ownership many residential streets simply can't cope, and as more houses are/were converted to HMOs the problem got even worse.
If someone is buying or renting a house, surely it's their responsibility to determine where they might park a vehicle they own (or indeed, two or more vehicles, they might own). There's no given right to park on a street for example.
As @Noddy says above, not everyone has a car though - and if we invested more in public transport and providing better cycling infrastructure, a lot of people wouldn't ever feel the need to get one (besides perhaps the odd rental). Indeed, a lot of people never even bother to learn to drive at all.
Yes there is you can park anywhere on the highway as long as there are no parking restrictions and it doesn't cause an obstruction. Or do you mean a specific location?
Despite the infrastructure and general different attitudes in the Netherlands leading to a high use of bikes for transport they still own more cars than in the UK. Bikes there are used as an alternative to public transport for shorter journeys.
johncrossley
Established Member
In general, people who can afford a car will buy one even if they don't use it all the time. There are still a lot of poor people in the UK who can't afford cars which is less the case in the Netherlands. I haven't checked, but I would suspect that Switzerland also has a higher car ownership rate than the UK despite public transport there being exceptional, as Switzerland is a particularly rich country.
I think it meant any particular, maybe easier to understand if it said that there was no given right to an available parking place (shared or dedicated) on a street, irrespective of where one lives.
Since when have you been guaranteed the right to park on a public highway? The road could have double yellow lines, resident parking bays, or some other restriction, put in at any time. They could narrow the street also, eliminating parking on (say) one side of the road. They might also enforce parking on the pavement, which in some streets is essential.
While I am unsure about enforcement, a lot of roads have just gained double yellows since April this year, marking the correct distance from junctions - which previously everyone parked on - right up to the end of the junction. All of this results in less parking spaces.
While I am unsure about enforcement, a lot of roads have just gained double yellows since April this year, marking the correct distance from junctions - which previously everyone parked on - right up to the end of the junction. All of this results in less parking spaces.
The UK actually has (or a least in 2015-17 had) fairly low ownership rate compared to western Europe. Only Ireland and Denmark had lower rates. And while wealth is a factor, it’s certainly not the only one.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/registered-vehicles-per-1000-people?region=Europe
johncrossley
Established Member
Another factor will be the proportion of the population who live in megacities. Which in the UK is of course higher than in the Netherlands or Switzerland.
bahnause
Member
In most parts of switzerland you won‘t get permission for a building without adequate paking.
This is starting to change with the increase in car clubs, as it allows people access to a vehicle as they need it without having to own it.