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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

scosutsut

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How difficult could it possibly be for the police to install one or two ANPR cameras and send a nice fat bill to any plate not registered to a bus?
They had enforcement cameras years and years ago on Willowbrae Road and Lanark Road from memory. They didn't last long. I suspect it would be a council thing rather than Police but whoever it is is missing a trick.

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I think you’d have to tread on very thin ice taking away the parking outside the Balmoral though. It would be extremely controversial and those people using it would certainly find it almost impossible to arrive in at least some kind of privacy.
Oh you 100% would I agree, but that alone shouldn't be a reason not for it to be on the table. The convenience of 5 star hotel guests should not trump the transportation needs of an entire city!
 
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LiviCrazy

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They had enforcement cameras years and years ago on Willowbrae Road and Lanark Road from memory. They didn't last long. I suspect it would be a council thing rather than Police but whoever it is is missing a trick.

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Oh you 100% would I agree, but that alone shouldn't be a reason not for it to be on the table. The convenience of 5 star hotel guests should not trump the transportation needs of an entire city!
It’s a shame that planning permission has been given to extend the Waverley Centre to the roof area. I thought for a long time that that space should be used for buses to create a transport hub. I definitely feel Lothian Country and East Coast not using Waverley steps is an inconvenience, with a lot of areas in the Lothians not having close by train connections, a lot of people will travel by bus to catch the long distance trains, the hub nature of the area was convenient.

Does Lothian’s board at stop only and the oversized road facing shelters in that area not cause some issues. I’ve seen other cities with similar stops and they’ll often board two or three buses at a time.

The other thing that I feel definitely hasn’t helped pedestrian congestion is the massively oversized door/gate thing at the top of Waverley Steps. It just bottlenecks everyone.
 
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Bus9120UK

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computerSaysNo

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B5LH are the same length the overhang is just longer as the rear axle is further forward
Ah great, thanks.
Ex-London B9TLs are 10.4m, including the open-tops that were sold to McGill's
B7RLE is 12m
B8L is 13.4m according to Volvo
B8RLE is IIRC 12.8m

Not sure on the otehrs
Thanks.
The eVoRas are 12.8m while the Eclipse 3s are 13.2m. B7RLEs are 12.1m
Such a variety there! I wonder why. Was 12.1 the maximum length available on the B7RLE?
And with the B8RLE I'm surprised they went with a different length with the Evoras.
I believe the E400 B5TLs are 11.6m.
Thank you.
 

ScotRail158725

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Yet again another shambolic evening. Over an hour without a bus from town towards Gimerton, Dalkieth, Mayfield or Gorebridge, Two 29s appearing on Princes street together along with a 3 with another 3 due 5 minutes behind. I get resources are limited but surely short turning and empty running need to be utilised more in these circumstances.
 

fife_circle

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I’m curious if there is a reason the 7900H and some of the gemini 3s side destination display is half orange LEDs and half white LEDs. Thought it was a rather odd decision considering Lothian almost always go with white displays.
 

ScotRail158725

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I’m curious if there is a reason the 7900H and some of the gemini 3s side destination display is half orange LEDs and half white LEDs. Thought it was a rather odd decision considering Lothian almost always go with white displays.
They were like this from new. All new buses from 2011-2014 had white route numbers and orange destinations and via points on the LED screens
 

fife_circle

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They were like this from new. All new buses from 2011-2014 had white route numbers and orange destinations and via points on the LED screens
Was this a way to make them stand out from each other? Just looks to me like they couldn’t source a white replacement for a broken LED panel so went with what they had lying around.
 

Blindtraveler

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Yet again another shambolic evening. Over an hour without a bus from town towards Gimerton, Dalkieth, Mayfield or Gorebridge, Two 29s appearing on Princes street together along with a 3 with another 3 due 5 minutes behind. I get resources are limited but surely short turning and empty running need to be utilised more in these circumstances.
Equally I guess they have to be careful not to leave parts of the network without a bus for a significant amount of time but this does sound bad and was happening increasingly often on a lot of routes before I left Edinburgh in the spring. No doubt a complaint at the moment would get the standard cut past paste response that the festival is on and this is supposed to pacify everybody within Edinburgh's general orbit, but something does need looking at here clearly, be it resources or weight of maintaining services. I don't know but I've often wondered if splitting routes into multiple sections at this time of year wouldn't be a bad idea.
 

Lx008

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Any news/rumors on a BZL order since 997 has now officially left us?
If an order was imminent I would have thought Lothian would just keep 997 and paint the outside since it was entirely in Lothian spec inside.
 
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Any news/rumors on a BZL order since 997 has now officially left us?
If an order was imminent I would have thought Lothian would just keep 997 and paint the outside since it was entirely in Lothian spec inside.
Most sources and people are saying 50 over 2 years, 25 one year and 25 the year after. Whether they will come in 2023 or 2024 is the real question.
 

Darklord8899

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Was this a way to make them stand out from each other? Just looks to me like they couldn’t source a white replacement for a broken LED panel so went with what they had lying around.
I like the white/orange displays, the number does stand out more being in white.

However, it will be far easier from a maintenance stance only needing to get replacement LED's in white [probably white is cheaper too]
 

GusB

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Most sources and people are saying 50 over 2 years, 25 one year and 25 the year after. Whether they will come in 2023 or 2024 is the real question.
What are these sources you're referring to? Is there anything concrete here, or is it just wild speculation?
 
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Recently I went on bus 185... oh my. I'm just gonna say this, do you think Lothian will ever "repair" this bus? Its evident it is a bus that was from 2009/10 or even earlier, but I've never seen a bus in that state.

The 'Stopping' sign was broken and nailed into the wall, parts of the ceiling were hanging, a total safety hazard. That's me been on it twice, on Services 12 and 48.

Is this the Lothian standard? Is there any other B7LRE Wright Eclipse's like this? What is wrong with 185 and why hasn't it been repaired? Does Lothian even have the money?
 
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stevenedin

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Recently I went on bus 185... oh my. I'm just gonna say this, do you think Lothian will ever "repair" this bus? Its evident it is a bus that was from 2009/10 or even earlier, but I've never seen a bus in that state.

The 'Stopping' sign was broken and nailed into the wall, parts of the ceiling were hanging, a total safety hazard. That's me been on it twice, on Services 12 and 48.

Is this the Lothian standard? Is there any other B7LRE Wright Eclipse's like this? What is wrong with 185 and why hasn't it been repaired? Does Lothian even have the money?

Answer these and give me your opinions below!
This bus is from 2013.

I don’t work for Lothian but I’ve noticed that the cleanliness has got worse in the buses in recent times. It started off with Lothian Country buses looking much dirtier inside than Lothian city buses and then it has gradually moved to the city buses. I’m not sure if it is a lack of cleaning staff or if they get cleaned less often now compared to before. Who knows?

I haven’t noticed much maintenance issues although I did notice a B9TL with Lothian Country where the USB charging point had been removed and a hole was left. This was downstairs at the back.
 
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What are these sources you're referring to? Is there anything concrete here, or is it just wild speculation?
A wide range of people saying the same or similar things, engineers, supervisors and drivers, although I tend to take drivers with a pinch of salt.
 

CN04NRJ

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Recently I went on bus 185... oh my. I'm just gonna say this, do you think Lothian will ever "repair" this bus? Its evident it is a bus that was from 2009/10 or even earlier, but I've never seen a bus in that state.

The 'Stopping' sign was broken and nailed into the wall, parts of the ceiling were hanging, a total safety hazard. That's me been on it twice, on Services 12 and 48.

Is this the Lothian standard? Is there any other B7LRE Wright Eclipse's like this? What is wrong with 185 and why hasn't it been repaired? Does Lothian even have the money?

2013. I find it hard to believe a bus with parts of the interior "hanging off" would be sent out in service, it wouldn't even leave the garage until it was fixed.

Interior damage in service is quite common at the moment, with youths pulling off seat backs, ripping off seats, damaging chargers, trying to take off anything they can.
 

ScotRail158725

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Recently I went on bus 185... oh my. I'm just gonna say this, do you think Lothian will ever "repair" this bus? Its evident it is a bus that was from 2009/10 or even earlier, but I've never seen a bus in that state.

The 'Stopping' sign was broken and nailed into the wall, parts of the ceiling were hanging, a total safety hazard. That's me been on it twice, on Services 12 and 48.

Is this the Lothian standard? Is there any other B7LRE Wright Eclipse's like this? What is wrong with 185 and why hasn't it been repaired? Does Lothian even have the money?
A bit of an over exaggeration. Even smaller cheap run companies like Horsburgh wouldn’t send something into service with “parts of the ceiling were hanging”.
2013. I find it hard to believe a bus with parts of the interior "hanging off" would be sent out in service, it wouldn't even leave the garage until it was fixed.
I second that. As i say even budget companies wouldn’t stoop to a level
Interior damage in service is quite common at the moment, with youths pulling off seat backs, ripping off seats, damaging chargers, trying to take off anything they can.
I was on 634 just before it moved from Marine to Longstone and a group of neds had ripped off every seat back upstairs at the back, things like this seem to be becoming a regular occurence. Kids smashing the emergency windows is another frequent one
 
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A bit of an over exaggeration. Even smaller cheap run companies like Horsburgh wouldn’t send something into service with “parts of the ceiling were hanging”.

I second that. As i say even budget companies wouldn’t stoop to a level

I was on 634 just before it moved from Marine to Longstone and a group of neds had ripped off every seat back upstairs at the back, things like this seem to be becoming a regular occurence. Kids smashing the emergency windows is another frequent one
The summer holidays are thankfully finishing up, and about time too.
 
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Does Lothian’s board at stop only and the oversized road facing shelters in that area not cause some issues. I’ve seen other cities with similar stops and they’ll often board two or three buses at a time.

The other thing that I feel definitely hasn’t helped pedestrian congestion is the massively oversized door/gate thing at the top of Waverley Steps. It just bottlenecks everyone.
Apart from being unconventional in Edinburgh, the westbound road and pavement around Waverley Steps is so tight & congested that it might make parallel boarding even more dangerous, or at least chaotic. If operators want to load two or three vehicles at the same time they should use two or three separate stopping points. If they don't like long dwell times at stops they should look at processing passengers quicker rather than just opening doors between stops.

Are there any plans to reopen Waverley Bridge or do something with George Street? These might help if used as a city centre terminus option for some routes instead of Regent Road or St Andrew Square.
 

Theproinsider

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Apart from being unconventional in Edinburgh, the westbound road and pavement around Waverley Steps is so tight & congested that it might make parallel boarding even more dangerous, or at least chaotic. If operators want to load two or three vehicles at the same time they should use two or three separate stopping points. If they don't like long dwell times at stops they should look at processing passengers quicker rather than just opening doors between stops.

Are there any plans to reopen Waverley Bridge or do something with George Street? These might help if used as a city centre terminus option for some routes instead of Regent Road or St Andrew Square.
No plans to reopen Waverley Bridge and the council intend to pedestrianise George Street. That should help enormously.
 

computerSaysNo

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I was on 634 just before it moved from Marine to Longstone and a group of neds had ripped off every seat back upstairs at the back, things like this seem to be becoming a regular occurence. Kids smashing the emergency windows is another frequent one
Surely here the driver should have noticed and intervened? Even if that was just shouting "Oi!" down the PA, then if they still didn't stop phoning the police?
 

Avenger20

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Surely here the driver should have noticed and intervened? Even if that was just shouting "Oi!" down the PA, then if they still didn't stop phoning the police?
Forgive me, but I worry that you're slightly out of touch with just how feral these little delights are nowadays.

Shouting "oi!" at them will do absolutely nothing apart from direct their attention to you. They aren't afraid of the police because they know there is little the police can do to them other than take the home to their parents who don't care.

Sometimes as the staff member, it's better to remain in a position of safety and not engage, rubbish as that is.
 

computerSaysNo

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Sometimes as the staff member, it's better to remain in a position of safety and not engage, rubbish as that is.
I probably wouldn't get out the cab as at least there's the assault screen as protection.
Would shouting at them cause them to target you (as the driver)? If so wouldn't just stopping and calling the police be the best action? At least then you'd be trying to minimize the damage done to the bus?
 

ScotRail158725

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Surely here the driver should have noticed and intervened? Even if that was just shouting "Oi!" down the PA, then if they still didn't stop phoning the police?
Seriously? Having dealt with feral youths in my line of work multiple times, a lot of which come back to my workplace multiple times even after being lifted by the police, they’re not going to be bothered in the slightest. Shouting down the PA as just stated above will just turn the attention to the driver likely resulting in damage to the drivers area i. particular the mirrors or windscreen wipers. Also how do you expect the driver to notice too? Most drivers believe it or not concentrate on driving, on whats ahead of them on the road and not what some delinqual youths on the cctv which you probably cant see on such a small monitor

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I probably wouldn't get out the cab as at least there's the assault screen as protection.
Would shouting at them cause them to target you (as the driver)? If so wouldn't just stopping and calling the police be the best action? At least then you'd be trying to minimize the damage done to the bus?
Tbh its better to just do nothing at all. At the end of the day you’d rather be safe than sorry
 
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No plans to reopen Waverley Bridge and the council intend to pedestrianise George Street. That should help enormously.
Wouldn't this affect Lothian in a way? Would the George Street diversion* for 10 and 11 become permanent?

*Diversion is via South St David St and Princes St
 
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