Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[overthewater]

How far in advance do changes need to be registered?
Maybe they're just planning on running duplicates on the 25 during term-time.
If it was me I'd be using XLBs on the 25, assuming they're not needed elsewhere compared with a standard-length bus.

Going by current process they could appear within the next two weeks, for changes in mid to late September.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Going by current process they could appear within the next two weeks, for changes in mid to late September.

I have noticed for the last while, excluding anything short notice, they were put up exactly a month and two weeks in advance. This hasn't been the case though if a change was to occur in mid-September. There is still time of course.

 

[JKP]

Going by current process they could appear within the next two weeks, for changes in mid to late September.

I agree. Notices and Proceedings seems to be on a time lag.

 

[Lx008]

998 (the Wright Electrowhatever) is out on 24s today.

My sincere condolences to anyone riding the 24 today; that thing is a piece of garbage that doesn’t belong anywhere near a Lothian depot.
I had the unique displeasure of riding it while it was on loan to West Midlands and it rattles like crazy and seems to have not been fitted with suspension.

 

[danielhogg2005]

How long has Lothian had bus 997 (Double Deck BZL)?

 

[Lx008]

997 has been with us since early April, also don’t see it heading off anytime soon since it’s in full Lothian spec inside, but could always be proven wrong

 

[stevenedin]

844 seems to be tracking back at Musselburgh again.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

844 seems to be tracking back at Musselburgh again.

It’s frozen. Has been stuck in that location since it’s last run out.

 

[stevenedin]

It’s frozen. Has been stuck in that location since it’s last run out.

Thanks, I wasn’t sure as I’m sure I had seen it track at Livingston but could have been mistaken.

 

[Jordan Adam]

My sincere condolences to anyone riding the 24 today; that thing is a piece of garbage that doesn’t belong anywhere near a Lothian depot.
I had the unique displeasure of riding it while it was on loan to West Midlands and it rattles like crazy and seems to have not been fitted with suspension.

It had next to no rattles when I was on it and the suspension seemed fine. The seats could be better but that's not a fault of the vehicle itself. The fleet manager for NXWM (National Express West Midlands) seemed to speak highly of it particularly in terms of build quality when it was there.

 

[cnjb8]

It had next to no rattles when i was on it and the suspension seemed fine, the seats could be better but thats not a fault of the vehicle itself. The fleet manager for NXWM seemed to speak highly of it particularly in terms of build quality when it was there.

NXWM have ordered a batch of them IIRC, so they definitely liked the demonstrator

 

[computerSaysNo]

Lothian mostly operate 11.5M dual-axle deckers. If they wish to operate equivalent size/capacity electric double deckers they're likely going to have no option but to go for a short tri-axle as, due to weight limitations, there's unlikely to be a dual-axle electric decker of that length anytime soon. I suspect it is for this reason also that ADL seem to be intending to offer the Enviro500EV to the UK market.

Ah, so are the demonstrators (BLZ, Electroliner) reduced-length ones then?

Is anyone able to provide a quick summary of the lengths Lothian operate?

• B5TL - both Gemini and E400MMC are 11.5 meters?
• B5LH - these look slightly longer due to the larger rear overhang?
• B9TL and B7TL (native) - were all of these 11.5m also?
• B9TL (ex-London) - were these ten-point-something meters?
• B7RLE - don't know the length.
• B8RLE - also don't know length.
• B8L - don't know length.

Am I also correct in thinking that Lothian has always bought the full/maximum length for each "class" of bus bought (with the exception of the ex-London vehicles)?

 

[stevenedin]

Ah, so are the demonstrators (BLZ, Electroliner) reduced-length ones then?
Also is anyone able to provide a quick summary of the lengths Lothian operate?

• B5TL - both Gemini and E400MMC are 11.5 meters?
• B5LH - these look slightly longer due to the larger rear overhang?
• B9TL and B7TL (native) - were all of these 11.5m also?
• B9TL (ex-London) - were these ten-point-something meters?
• B7RLE - don't know the length.
• B8RLE - also don't know length.
• B8L - don't know length.

Am I also correct in thinking that Lothian has always bought the full/maximum length for each "class" of bus bought (with the exception of the ex-London vehicles)?

I don’t know the exact measurements but they have bought longer buses since the 52 reg Dennis Tridents, before that they were shorter.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Ah, so are the demonstrators (BLZ, Electroliner) reduced-length ones then?
Also is anyone able to provide a quick summary of the lengths Lothian operate?

• B5TL - both Gemini and E400MMC are 11.5 meters?
• B5LH - these look slightly longer due to the larger rear overhang?
• B9TL and B7TL (native) - were all of these 11.5m also?
• B9TL (ex-London) - were these ten-point-something meters?
• B7RLE - don't know the length.
• B8RLE - also don't know length.
• B8L - don't know length.

Am I also correct in thinking that Lothian has always bought the full/maximum length for each "class" of bus bought (with the exception of the ex-London vehicles)?

B5LH are the same length the overhang is just longer as the rear axle is further forward

 

[318266]

Ah, so are the demonstrators (BLZ, Electroliner) reduced-length ones then?
Also is anyone able to provide a quick summary of the lengths Lothian operate?

• B5TL - both Gemini and E400MMC are 11.5 meters?
• B5LH - these look slightly longer due to the larger rear overhang?
• B9TL and B7TL (native) - were all of these 11.5m also?
• B9TL (ex-London) - were these ten-point-something meters?
• B7RLE - don't know the length.
• B8RLE - also don't know length.
• B8L - don't know length.

Am I also correct in thinking that Lothian has always bought the full/maximum length for each "class" of bus bought (with the exception of the ex-London vehicles)?

Ex-London B9TLs are 10.4m, including the open-tops that were sold to McGill's
B7RLE is 12m
B8L is 13.4m according to Volvo
B8RLE is IIRC 12.8m

Not sure on the otehrs

 

[Bus9120UK]

The eVoRas are 12.8m while the Eclipse 3s are 13.2m. B7RLEs are 12.1m

 

[CN04NRJ]

Ah, so are the demonstrators (BLZ, Electroliner) reduced-length ones then?

Is anyone able to provide a quick summary of the lengths Lothian operate?

• B5TL - both Gemini and E400MMC are 11.5 meters?
• B5LH - these look slightly longer due to the larger rear overhang?
• B9TL and B7TL (native) - were all of these 11.5m also?
• B9TL (ex-London) - were these ten-point-something meters?
• B7RLE - don't know the length.
• B8RLE - also don't know length.
• B8L - don't know length.

Am I also correct in thinking that Lothian has always bought the full/maximum length for each "class" of bus bought (with the exception of the ex-London vehicles)?

I believe the E400 B5TLs are 11.6m.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Service change to be on September 10th 2023, a 46 (amongst others) registration has just been put up!

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/614316/

Here is the link to the Service 46, although others have been published too.

• Date received 28 Jul 2023
• Effective date 10 Sep 2023

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Service change to be on September 10th 2023, a 46 (amongst others) registration has just been put up!

Here is the link to the Service 46, although others have been published too.

Maybe what I and @TheEastCoaster were discussing last night will happen. One can only hope! Glad to finally see a change come through though.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Maybe what I and @TheEastCoaster were discussing last night will happen. One can only hope! Glad to finally see a change come through though.

The following services have changes of some sort: 1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 14, 15, 16, 19, 22, 25, 26, 29, 30, 31, 33, 35, 36, 37, 44, 45, 46, 47, 47B, 48, 49, 400, N3, N30, N37, N400, X26, X31, X37, X44. I will check East Coast Buses and Lothian Country in a moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2023 ==

Lothian Country and East Coast Buses have nothing at the moment.

 

[ScotRail158725]

The following services have changes of some sort: 1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 14, 15, 16, 19, 22, 25, 26, 29, 30, 31, 33, 35, 36, 37, 44, 45, 46, 47, 47B, 48, 49, 400, N3, N30, N37, N400, X26, X31, X37, X44. I will check East Coast Buses and Lothian Country in a moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2023 ==

Lothian Country and East Coast Buses have nothing at the moment.

25 back up to 10 minute frequency is guaranteed here

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I’d expect a handful of route changes in here. Not anything major though.

I’m particularly interested to see what they do with the 8/9. They’ve really put themselves in a corner with certain scenarios in terms of the high to low frequency. I’d still say that the ex London B9TL’s would be the best solution for now, but maybe the return of the universities will help with the low weekday daytime usage in the north.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

The following services have changes of some sort: 1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 14, 15, 16, 19, 22, 25, 26, 29, 30, 31, 33, 35, 36, 37, 44, 45, 46, 47, 47B, 48, 49, 400, N3, N30, N37, N400, X26, X31, X37, X44. I will check East Coast Buses and Lothian Country in a moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2023 ==

Lothian Country and East Coast Buses have nothing at the moment.

Perhaps Service 49 will be rerouted because there is a 15 minute gap between each terminus.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Perhaps Service 49 will be rerouted because there is a 15 minute gap between each terminus.

Routes have more purpose than just taking people from one terminus to the other. People use it along the route well which is why I assume it remains as is.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Perhaps Service 49 will be rerouted because there is a 15 minute gap between each terminus.

People keep going on about how the 49s terminus is 10 minutes apart. The 49 is not designed as an end to end route, nobody is doing that. There is no need for it to be rerouted because of this

 

[roadierway77]

Routes have more purpose than just taking people from one terminus to the other. People use it along the route well which is why I assume it remains as is.

People keep going on about how the 49s terminus is 10 minutes apart. The 49 is not designed as an end to end route, nobody is doing that. There is no need for it to be rerouted because of this

That's very true, but Lothian's style of destination blind makes it confusing for anybody at the Infirmary travelling to FK and vice versa as the 49 simply shows 'Fort Kinnaird' like the 400, only the 400 takes 10-15mins while the 49 takes well over an hour. A tourist or someone otherwise unfamiliar with Edinburgh's bus network could mistakenly board the 49 at the Infirmary, assuming the trip to Fort Kinnaird to be quick as the two terminus points are very close to each other. The solution is either change the style of destination blind to add via points or something like 'Leith for Fort Kinnaird', or swap one end of the 49 with another route - the 22 and 49 is one that others and myself have suggested could be swapped as they both operate at the same frequency.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Anyone know how the N18, N28 & N43 have been doing in terms of passanger use?

 

[JKP]

That's very true, but Lothian's style of destination blind makes it confusing for anybody at the Infirmary travelling to FK and vice versa as the 49 simply shows 'Fort Kinnaird' like the 400, only the 400 takes 10-15mins while the 49 takes well over an hour. A tourist or someone otherwise unfamiliar with Edinburgh's bus network could mistakenly board the 49 at the Infirmary, assuming the trip to Fort Kinnaird to be quick as the two terminus points are very close to each other. The solution is either change the style of destination blind to add via points or something like 'Leith for Fort Kinnaird', or swap one end of the 49 with another route - the 22 and 49 is one that others and myself have suggested could be swapped as they both operate at the same frequency.

The answer at least for new dd buses is to have via blinds fitted as in days of old.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Anyone know how the N18, N28 & N43 have been doing in terms of passanger use?

I've used the N18 twice to Bathgate, once on a Tuesday night and once on a Saturday and it was reasonable on the Tuesday, and quite busy on the Saturday.

Obviously just my personal experience.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2023 ==

In other news, two of 591-594 were listed as sold on the Lothian Buses fleet sales page on Facebook today (according to the edit history).

It may just be coincidental but this route one article was also published today where it states Newport Transport have sourced second hand B5LHs for conversion to full electric - don't think I've seen any other B5LHs for sale?

Equipmake to repower eight double-deckers for Newport - routeone

Equipmake will repower eight existing double-deckers to battery-electric for South Wales municipal operator Newport Transport.

www.route-one.net

 

[stevenedin]

The answer at least for new dd buses is to have via blinds fitted as in days of old.

That would be great but I can’t imagine that they would move back to roller blinds.