Transport for Wales Class 230

[Prime586]

Either there's something up with how the website is generating the location data, or with the GPS data from whatever is running 2F82 to Bidston (currently running 11 late, it's partner in the other direction 2J80 is currently 13 late) but it's symbol kept randomly setting off on circuits of the Wirral at jet aircraft speeds when it was near Hawarden.

The last time I saw something like that was on a fire service command and control system I was working on where an appliance that was supposed to be off duty in the station overnight would apparently streak in from the North Sea at thousands of miles an hour (it was later traced to that station having transparent panels in the aluminium roof that the appliance's GPS receiver would occasionally get a partial fix through).

 

[Steve B]

Either there's something up with how the website is generating the location data, or with the GPS data from whatever is running 2F82 to Bidston (currently running 11 late, it's partner in the other direction 2J80 is currently 13 late) but it's symbol kept randomly setting off on circuits of the Wirral at jet aircraft speeds when it was near Hawarden.

It would explain the late running...

The last time I saw something like that was on a fire service command and control system I was working on where an appliance that was supposed to be off duty in the station overnight would apparently streak in from the North Sea at thousands of miles an hour (it was later traced to that station having transparent panels in the aluminium roof that the appliance's GPS receiver would occasionally get a partial fix through).

I've seen the same thing on a similar map of the London Underground a good few years ago where I noticed a stray Piccadily line train heading in a very straight and purposeful direction in the vicinity of, I think, Loughton.

 

[33017]

Hardly deception. Just quoting some stats, you know - a bit of science - but hey facts aren't as exciting as opinion and anecdotes are they? Thought it wouldn't be long until someone came along with some conspiracy theory that the stats are a stitch-up by dark forces. I'm sorry the facts don't quite fit the standard narrative that these trains are the most hopeless trains ever built.

And yes ok it's just for April, alright then let's wait and see what the stats are for May, June, July and onwards. Perhaps they will be better, perhaps they will be worse. We will see.

"They" is an independent journalist from an independent and highly respected trade magazine - hardly the mouthpiece of TfW.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2023 ==


Not 100% sure myself but the best explanation I could find was here: https://www.modernrailways.com/article/new-measure-fleet-reliability

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2023 ==


It's a TfW team looking after the 230s at Birkenhead North which is a Stadler depot. But Stadler aren't actually doing the maintenance. That might be where the confusion has come about.

I’m not sure how the figures were compiled but they’re hard to reconcile with what happened on the ground. In the first week of April alone 230010 failed on the Monday, 230008 the Tuesday, 230010 again on the Thursday and there were no trains at all on the Friday as no 230s could be provided. The following Monday (they didn’t work weekends then) saw 230010 fail again and the service abandoned before 0900.

There were at least four other failures on the remaining 14 days they had booked work, and at least one other day (18th) where no trains ran at all due to lack of available units. It’s clear the mileage quoted (8,821) must include ECS and training runs as the entire diagrammed mileage on passenger services for the class during April was more than a thousand miles lower, and that’s before cancellations are taken into account.

 

[DLAYKEGER]

So 2nd 230 train is about 14 mins down by second run of day. Not good enough to get me back off Merseyrail or the bus

 

[CaergwrleKen]

So 2nd 230 train is about 14 mins down by second run of day. Not good enough to get me back off Merseyrail or the bus

Today there were signalling problems at Dee Marsh which likely affected trains plus the Merseyrail unit scrap run took an extra path. Maybe we should spend 30 million pounds on some new signals

 

[anthony263]

230006 is supposed to have been put back together ready for service after donating parts

 

[paddyb6]

Today there were signalling problems at Dee Marsh which likely affected trains plus the Merseyrail unit scrap run took an extra path. Maybe we should spend 30 million pounds on some new signals

The Borderlands needs resignalling now, if a 30 min service is to be achieved with the freight paths as well as future 50x scrap moves, I've often seen trains waiting at Beechwood and Dee Marsh for the trains to reach Dee Marsh and Bidston respectively. Surely new signals along the route have/are being considered.

 

[Invincible]

The Borderlands needs resignalling now, if a 30 min service is to be achieved with the freight paths as well as future 50x scrap moves, I've often seen trains waiting at Beechwood and Dee Marsh for the trains to reach Dee Marsh and Bidston respectively. Surely new signals along the route have/are being considered.

Found this on the Network Rail website on Google search, no implementation dates. Wrexham -Bidston – Congested Infrastructure Report

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Wrexham-to-Bidston-Congested-Infrastructure-Report-January-2023.pdf

 

[Steve B]

Found this on the Network Rail website on Google search, no implementation dates. Wrexham -Bidston – Congested Infrastructure Report

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Wrexham-to-Bidston-Congested-Infrastructure-Report-January-2023.pdf

Thank you for posting this - I'd wondered what or if any studies had taken place like this, but hadn't expected them to be in the public domain. Very interesting.

Steve B

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Found this on the Network Rail website on Google search, no implementation dates. Wrexham -Bidston – Congested Infrastructure Report

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Wrexham-to-Bidston-Congested-Infrastructure-Report-January-2023.pdf

Probably worth me putting the most important parts here for people to see without having to crawl through it

As part of this analysis these are the key findings.
• Without infrastructure upgrades including enhanced signalling, capacity has not been found for all services based on the current published TPRs
• Enhancements to the siding entrance at Penyffordd for the Padeswood Cement Works will be essential to prevent freight movements blocking the Down Main line for 40 minutes
• Additional intermediate signals need to be added throughout the area to break the long block sections into shorter sections between Bidston Dee Jn to Wrexham Exchange Jn
• Two passenger and one freight service can be accommodated with the provision of shorter signalling block sections, but the trade-off will be that the passenger service will not arrive on an even 30-minute intervals to their destination
• In order to accommodate four passenger paths per hour alongside an hourly freight opportunity a signalling enhancement will be needed which can support, at a minimum, a planning headway of 7-minutes.

I think it's worth noting the aspirations

As part of this analysis the following three phases have been examined.
• Phase 1 - Two passenger services per hour (one calling at all stations and one limitedstop) in addition to an hourly freight opportunity
• Phase 2 - Two passenger services per hour (both call at all stations) in addition to an hourly freight opportunity
• Phase 3 - Future Aspirations – Four passenger services per hour (calling at all stations) in addition to an hourly freight opportunity into Padeswood Cement Works

Phase 3 of "4 services per hour" definitely seems to be them looking at Merseyrail since I doubt TfW would be able to gather enough demand (they only seem to be losing passengers with the 230s).
Although further down this 4 tph seems to very much be just looking to the future, not looking to a specific future.

The West Kirby Merseyrail service runs a standard repeating pattern calling at Bidston, the future aspiration to run 4tph on the Borderlands Line may require Merseyrail services to be retimed to accommodate the increase of services, there is an ambition by TfW and Merseyrail to have a direct service between Wrexham and Liverpool via Bidston, however that aspiration it is not part of the scope of this work to test the feasibility of this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

4tph on the Borderlands seems a bit fanciful unless it came with more stations and major housing development alongside them, and even then is probably fanciful south of Shotton. It's more like Ormskirk-Preston than it is another branch of Merseyrail.

 

[DLAYKEGER]

Does anybody have any clue if TFW have any timetable changes from Sept on the Borderlands as Timetables at stations and on line run up to 9th Sept, but no apparent changes showing on Realtime trains and nowt shown on tfw website as far as I can tell. Realise other lines have similar timetable change date. Wonder if 230s will be allowed more time, but would destroy hourly service

 

[kieron]

Probably worth me putting the most important parts here for people to see without having to crawl through it

It may be worth saying that they did include freight paths between Wrexham and Dee Marsh in each scenario, not just Padeswood.

The Padeswood proposal in the report looks a bit odd to me, as trains to/from the silos would have to reverse twice to go towards Wrexham, when there seems to be plenty of space to give them a straight run. I haven't seen the report this is taken from, though.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Here's the map

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2023 ==

Seems to cover all of Great Britain!

Yes it's a good map.
But I notice that the entire route is coloured for the current lateness and doesn't reflect earlier performance.
So a Milford Haven-Manchester is shown red throughout because it is currently 10 down at Shrewsbury.
But it was pretty much on time until Hereford.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

But I notice that the entire route is coloured for the current lateness and doesn't reflect earlier performance.
So a Milford Haven-Manchester is shown red throughout because it is currently 10 down at Shrewsbury.
But it was pretty much on time until Hereford.

I feel like that's the best way to do it, this is a customer tool and they probably don't care how late their train was a bit ago (And they can easily check if they do want it).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have there been any new attempts at graffiti vandalism on the Class 230 units or did measures taken after the original incident defeat the attempts of the "mindless"?

 

[Woods]

How's the service been going in the last few weeks? I don't live local so as a quick sample check I looked at Realtime Trains, plugged in 'Heswall' just to find the line and then picked three genuinely random dates/times, then looked only at those services shown as 3 coaches (so obviously a 230 not a 150);

10/08/2023 around 1400:

• The 1334 from Wrexham Central to Bidston departed 2mins late and arrived 2mins early
• The 1434 from Bidston to Wrexham Central departed and arrived on time.

15/08/2023 around 1000:

• The 0935 from Wrexham Central to Bidston departed on time and arrived 1min early.
• The 1034 from Bidston to Wrexham Central departed 1min late and arrived on time.

16/08/2023 around 1700:

• The 1534 from Wrexham Central to Bidston departed 26mins late and arrived 26mins late.
• The 1633 from Bidston to Wrexham Central departed on time and arrived 5mins late.
• The 1742 from Wrexham Central to Bidston departed 1min late and arrived 1min early

So apart from the perturbation on the 16/08/2023 1534 example, which atleast kept time when it finally did depart (anyone know the reason for the late departure?), are these sample services indicative that the reliability of the units may finally be settling down? Also they appear to be keeping time now?

 

[L401CJF]

How's the service been going in the last few weeks? I don't live local so as a quick sample check I looked at Realtime Trains, plugged in 'Heswall' just to find the line and then picked three genuinely random dates/times, then looked only at those services shown as 3 coaches (so obviously a 230 not a 150);

10/08/2023 around 1400:

• The 1334 from Wrexham Central to Bidston departed 2mins late and arrived 2mins early
• The 1434 from Bidston to Wrexham Central departed and arrived on time.

15/08/2023 around 1000:

• The 0935 from Wrexham Central to Bidston departed on time and arrived 1min early.
• The 1034 from Bidston to Wrexham Central departed 1min late and arrived on time.

16/08/2023 around 1700:

• The 1534 from Wrexham Central to Bidston departed 26mins late and arrived 26mins late.
• The 1633 from Bidston to Wrexham Central departed on time and arrived 5mins late.
• The 1742 from Wrexham Central to Bidston departed 1min late and arrived 1min early

So apart from the perturbation on the 16/08/2023 1534 example, which atleast kept time when it finally did depart (anyone know the reason for the late departure?), are these sample services indicative that the reliability of the units may finally be settling down? Also they appear to be keeping time now?

I've not been keeping track to be honest and I've not been up that way too much recently, I worked 230s two days last week both trips kept to time and no issues to report on either 008 or 009 at the time.

006 has moved position at Birkenhead North to be reassembled ready to enter service at some point in the future apparently.

The line is suffering with some pretty serious antisocial behaviour problems at the moment particularly late afternoon onwards which has been causing delays. Security staff regularly found onboard trains and at stations, BTP and PCSOs have been riding around on a lot of the afternoon/evening journeys too.

As far as I know, the majority of the guards have been trained on the 230s now, the number of trained drivers is increasing but training is still ongoing.

The afternoon 230 swop seems to cause some delays quite often too, particularly if the one coming from Wrexham terminates at Bidston p2 instead of p1. There are too many conflicting Merseyrail moves for the new 230 to come off the depot and cross the inbound 230 over to the Up line at Bidston all at once.

On one day last week the 230 couldn't go on the depot due to the other 230 waiting to come off, which was waiting for a gap between the Merseyrail services. The XX36 from Bidston to Liverpool was stuck behind the 230 waiting to go on the depot, which in turn got later and later then terminated at Hoylake on its return to West Kirby. Its a lot happening at once on a busy little section!

 

[CaergwrleKen]

Because they haven’t been doing weekends the 230s as i predicted have been performing slightly better recently but still not without the odd issue, let’s face it they couldn’t get any worse. Doors and air conditioning and water ingress are still a problem from what i’ve seen.

They still do very little work at the moment the whole fleet only covering one diagram a day. One of the crews also said that they have had some more parts which has helped. Don’t get too excited just yet though, let’s see what happens once they are on full diagrams with two units in passenger services all day every day.

Watch out for the experts and politicians coming out again justifying them saying they work and are worth the obscene amount of money these things have cost and are still costing now even though they still can’t even run a proper service. Still having to rely on the old Class 150 running 18 hours a day to keep things moving.

 

[Western 52]

I've had some recent trips on 230s, which to be fair have been ok and on time.

Some observations though. I believe they have a top speed of 60mph, but the fastest I clocked with my GPS was just 38mph.

Also, for some reason, one door at one end doesn't open at any station, even when platformed. It's not painted red so maybe not intended to be used, but not sure why.

 

[L401CJF]

I've had some recent trips on 230s, which to be fair have been ok and on time.

Some observations though. I believe they have a top speed of 60mph, but the fastest I clocked with my GPS was just 38mph.

Also, for some reason, one door at one end doesn't open at any station, even when platformed. It's not painted red so maybe not intended to be used, but not sure why.

The max line speed between Wrexham and Dee Marsh is 40mph, its 55 If I remember rightly on the Wirral section.

The end door is not for passenger use due to the short platform at Buckley in the up direction, that door is off the platform along with the back cab.

 

[Western 52]

The max line speed between Wrexham and Dee Marsh is 40mph, its 55 If I remember rightly on the Wirral section.

The end door is not for passenger use due to the short platform at Buckley in the up direction, that door is off the platform along with the back cab.

Ah that explains it then, my trips were all south of Shotton. Mind you, given the ride at 38mph, it must be quite something at 55!

 

[Kite159]

Finally managed to catch a 230 on Sunday afternoon from Wrexham to Bidston (230007). The ride is a bit bouncy on the fast running section north of Shotton. Quite nice inside. Kept good time throughout but not sure if that's more due to the more leisurely Sunday timetable.

Agreed with the anti social behaviour, group of youngsters vapping away without a care in the world.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Got a ride on 230s yesterday. The unit swap seemed to work in my favour as the incoming unit (007) due 1632 was half an hour late so did not get in the way of the outgoing unit (009) departing on time at 1633, and allowed me to swap platforms at Heswall to get back to Bidston on the delayed train half an hour earlier than I would otherwise have done, letting me get back on schedule having been delayed at Manchester by a failed 197 (of all things) a couple of hours earlier. Both seemed to be working fine - 007 had clearly picked up the delay on an earlier run - RTT suggests somewhere near Dee Marsh Junction about 11am.

As 009 was fully crewed, I assume the unit swap conicided with a shift change, as the incoming train (and its crew) was still half an hour away.

 

[L401CJF]

As 009 was fully crewed, I assume the unit swap conicided with a shift change, as the incoming train (and its crew) was still half an hour away.

Driver and guard go up to Birkenhead depot to bring the new unit off, so luckily the new unit doesn't have to wait for crew off the old one!

 

[CaergwrleKen]

So because they have to swap the 230 at Birkenhead because they can’t last a day the crews have to go in taxis to and from Chester every day, more expense on the 230 bill. Look like they are in trouble again today back to normal then.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Driver and guard go up to Birkenhead depot to bring the new unit off, so luckily the new unit doesn't have to wait for crew off the old one!

Seeing as the 230s were going to start the new WTT in May 2023, and it is now well through August, you would expect some Weekly STP diagrams for the crew, which would take care of the set swap.

 

[shredder1]

Are the 230 running tomorrow saturday 19th does anyone know please

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Are the 230 running tomorrow saturday 19th does anyone know please

Ran last Saturday so probably.

 

[shredder1]

Ran last Saturday so probably.

Thank you so much for a quick reply, Ill have a ride over there then, thank you.