London To Basel & Zurich

[Ian99]

I note that the man at seat61 suggests that the best route to Zurich is via Paris Nord, metro to Gare du Lyon and then direct to Basel and then on to Zurich.

I prefer Paris Nord, 10 minute walk to Gare d'Est, to Strasbourg then on to Basel and then on to Zurich.

I've not tried the seat61 suggestion so I was wondering if others had an opinion on the pros and cons of each?

 

[30907]

I note that the man at seat61 suggests that the best route to Zurich is via Paris Nord, metro to Gare du Lyon and then direct to Basel and then on to Zurich.

I prefer Paris Nord, 10 minute walk to Gare d'Est, to Strasbourg then on to Basel and then on to Zurich.

I've not tried the seat61 suggestion so I was wondering if others had an opinion on the pros and cons of each?

Personally I prefer the Est option and journey planners routinely offer that route. The problem is the lack of a regular interval timetable, random trains being OuiGo etc.

The GdL route is OK but the RER access/exit (northbound) feels as convoluted as Kings X tube and GdL itself is busy and feels complicated compared to Est. That said, if I were going to Zurich itself I might opt for it.

(BTW there is also a useful Strasbourg connection at Lille off the 1104 ex STP.)

For Interrail holders, the Strasbourg route (or the "change at Mulhouse onto a TER" option) is also cheaper. Probably the case with normal tickets too. In both cases you need to allow a few minutes extra to get from/to Bâle SNCF platforms.

 

[Ian99]

Yes, good point about the TER option bringing one into Basel at a set of platforms slightly further away from the main ones.

Also a good tip about a Lille connection.

I'm not sure why your opinion might change if you were going to Zurich itself though?

 

[DanielB]

Yes, good point about the TER option bringing one into Basel at a set of platforms slightly further away from the main ones.

Well, slightly...

I happened to take the Paris Est - Strassbourg - Basel route myself last monday, albeit coming from the Netherlands instead of London (but still arriving at Paris Nord, so not that much difference).
Paris to Strassbourg was a TGV inOui ran with an ancient and worn trainset. Though the seats had seen better times, they still were quite comfortable in first class. (Even seat 61 where I happened to get allocated)

From Strassbourg to Basel the carriages are also really old, but there seemed to have been some kind of refurbishment inside as they looked less worn there. And where incredibly comfortable.
In Basel the French platforms are quite a walk from the main station concourse, so allow plenty of time for that.
Was a bit frustrating for myself as I actually exited the train under the Margarethenbrücke (where my hotel was right next to), but had to walk all the way to the main concourse and then back again

Basel to Strassbourg is running an half hourly service most of the day, so there almost always will be a quick connection available. I found much more options myself via that route than direct from Paris to Basel, the latter having the advantage of arriving in the main station.

For Interrail holders, the Strasbourg route (or the "change at Mulhouse onto a TER" option) is also cheaper. Probably the case with normal tickets too. In both cases you need to allow a few minutes extra to get from/to Bâle SNCF platforms.

Relatively cheap indeed. I paid 20 euros booking via the Belgian railways, that's 10 euros for the actual reservation and 10 euros for the processing fee, booking about 1,5 month in advance.
Note you're required to label your luggage for the TGV inOui trains, though those labels are easily obtained. When I arrived at Paris Est there where stacks of luggage tags laying at the ticket machines next to the ticket office, allowing you to avoid the queue to get them.

 

[30907]

I'm not sure why your opinion might change if you were going to Zurich itself though?

Simply that it might be quicker as well as fewer changes. Most other (standard gauge) destinations in CH can be reached directly from Basel.

That's aid, last time I came through Zurich I had time enough in hand to do Solothurn-Munster-Delle-Montbeliard instead of Basel-Mulhouse..

 

[rvdborgt]

Relatively cheap indeed. I paid 20 euros booking via the Belgian railways, that's 10 euros for the actual reservation and 10 euros for the processing fee, booking about 1,5 month in advance.

Domestic TGV reservations are €10 (limited quota) or €20 (until the train is full). NMBS have a €4 service fee per order if you book online. At their ticket offices and by phone, there's supposed to be no service fee for pass reservations but apparently in June that changed for TGV/Thalys/Eurostar reservations, but they still haven't updated their online information, so legally they can't ask any fee there (yet).

 

[DanielB]

Domestic TGV reservations are €10 (limited quota) or €20 (until the train is full). NMBS have a €4 service fee per order if you book online. At their ticket offices and by phone, there's supposed to be no service fee for pass reservations but apparently in June that changed for TGV/Thalys/Eurostar reservations, but they still haven't updated their online information, so legally they can't ask any fee there (yet).

Ah, think I've been confused by the website first showing € 10 euros and then 20 in the payment stage. But it was indeed € 20 and a 4 euro service fee I paid.

The fare is mentioned as "INTERRAIL NON CONTINGENTÉ 1ÈRE CLASSE" so that indeed looks like the second fare. Though the quota for 10 euro reservations must have been incredibly limited as the train was mostly empty.

 

[Alfonso]

Gare du Nord underground and the RER can both be quite unpleasant places. I've never encountered any problems and I'd happily make the journey on my own, but if travelling with small kids or less confident older people I'd probably go for the est option or even better change at Lille

 

[StephenHunter]

Strasbourg to Basel has loco-hauled Corail stock, but no catering.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Gare du Nord underground and the RER can both be quite unpleasant places. I've never encountered any problems and I'd happily make the journey on my own, but if travelling with small kids or less confident older people I'd probably go for the est option or even better change at Lille

Yes - I too find GdN (especially downstairs), and the RER, rather unpleasant. So I generally get the direct bus GdN-GdL - slower than the RER or Metro, but pleasanter if you're not in a mad rush. I think it's the No 91 since they reshuffled their bus numbering a few years ago. Going all the way Paris-Zurich I think it's worth going from GdL rather than Est, for the sake of a direct train. (And advance prices on that route are probably competitive with going the other way round?) Though - other factors being equal - I, like others, prefer to pop next door to Est for onward connections from Eurostar compared to crossing the centre of Paris.

 

[Ian99]

Unless my connection is tight, I don't mind the walk between Nord & Lyon - takes me about 45 minutes if I go the most direct way or up to an hour if I detour to walk along the canal.

I don't find the underground route at all intimidating but it is crowded, a bit dark and the opposite of bright & inviting.

 

[Re 4/4]

I've done both routes before now. I remember a long wait on a cold platform at Strasbourg once, but that route does avoid the RER.

Both options are definitely viable.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Essentially, going to Basel via Gare de l'Est seems to be a little less crowded and avoids the RER across Paris, which is somewhat intimidating although seems actually to be pretty safe. The Lyria via Gare du Lyon is generally more expensive, but normally faster and, after Basel, also goes on to Zurich and thus avoids an interchange at Basel. In general, neither route is on regular interval timetable so, as others have said, it really depends when you are planning to go. The Lyria also offers a light snack in 1st class and the services of an SBB conductor on the train as well as the SNCF one (at least pre-Covid, this may have changed now).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a report in the August Modern Railways that SBB is considering terminating foreign services at the border and making people change to domestic Swiss services.
That's because most of the cross-border trains are very poor performers in terms of punctuality, and it is ruining the Swiss takt!
They also want to increase frequency on main routes and can't when the paths are taken by unreliable TGV/ICE/EC services.
The worst performers are the DB services from the Rhine valley, and there will be long-term disruption there because of the route upgrade in progress.
Maybe its just ringing alarm bells to get the foreign operators to improve punctuality, or maybe it's a real threat.

 

[rvdborgt]

The Lyria also offers a light snack in 1st class

Was that reinstated after COVID?

 

[peteb]

If you've got luggage, don't want the hassle of Paris, and have plenty of time there's a decent route via Brussels, Cologne, the Rhine valley and Basel. It is possible to do it on 3 trains: just a change to ICE at Brussels and again at either Frankfurt Hbf or Flughaven. A scenic route too. But obviously slower than via Paris.....

 

[DanielB]

You wouldn't get the scenic route when changing between ICEs in Frankfurt. To travel along the Rhine towards Basel you'd need to change onto one of the Eurocity's in Cologne.

 

[bspahh]

If you've got luggage, don't want the hassle of Paris, and have plenty of time there's a decent route via Brussels, Cologne, the Rhine valley and Basel. It is possible to do it on 3 trains: just a change to ICE at Brussels and again at either Frankfurt Hbf or Flughaven. A scenic route too. But obviously slower than via Paris.....

I've done that route a few times. It was nice to do it with one Sparpreis ticket from London to Basel, and would mean that I could meet up with colleagues in Cologne for a few hours. You now need to get a Eurostar ticket and then one from Brussels. The reliability for Deutsche Bahn in general, and for the Brussels-Cologne section in particular, is pretty poor. If you are on a schedule, it might not be the best.

 

[rvdborgt]

I've done that route a few times. It was nice to do it with one Sparpreis ticket from London to Basel, and would mean that I could meet up with colleagues in Cologne for a few hours. You now need to get a Eurostar ticket and then one from Brussels.

You can book from London via DB. You get 2 separate tickets, but still cheaper than booked separately.

 

[peteb]

You wouldn't get the scenic route when changing between ICEs in Frankfurt. To travel along the Rhine towards Basel you'd need to change onto one of the Eurocity's in Cologne.

Agreed. Scenery better along the Rhine valley!

 

[43096]

Well, slightly...

I happened to take the Paris Est - Strassbourg - Basel route myself last monday, albeit coming from the Netherlands instead of London (but still arriving at Paris Nord, so not that much difference).
Paris to Strassbourg was a TGV inOui ran with an ancient and worn trainset. Though the seats had seen better times, they still were quite comfortable in first class. (Even seat 61 where I happened to get allocated)

From Strassbourg to Basel the carriages are also really old, but there seemed to have been some kind of refurbishment inside as they looked less worn there. And where incredibly comfortable.
In Basel the French platforms are quite a walk from the main station concourse, so allow plenty of time for that.
Was a bit frustrating for myself as I actually exited the train under the Margarethenbrücke (where my hotel was right next to), but had to walk all the way to the main concourse and then back again

Basel to Strassbourg is running an half hourly service most of the day, so there almost always will be a quick connection available. I found much more options myself via that route than direct from Paris to Basel, the latter having the advantage of arriving in the main station.

As you say Strasbourg to Basel is an hourly (half-hourly in the peaks) TER200 that uses push-pull sets of very comfortable Corail stock, powered by BB26000 Sybic locos operating (as you might expect) at 200km/h.

I’ve done the London to Basel move via Eurostar, Gare de l’Est and Strasbourg before and it worked very well; although the Paris - Strasbourg leg was actually a DB ICE set.

 

[zero]

Doesn't the Paris-Strasbourg train continue to Karlsruhe? I'm sure I did that a few years ago, on a TGV set sadly but if DB ICE sets do it too that would be even better

 

[DanielB]

Doesn't the Paris-Strasbourg train continue to Karlsruhe? I'm sure I did that a few years ago, on a TGV set sadly but if DB ICE sets do it too that would be even better

There are direct trains from Paris Est to Frankfurt, so these probably will go via Karlsruhe indeed.

 

[rvdborgt]

There are direct trains from Paris Est to Frankfurt, so these probably will go via Karlsruhe indeed.

Most of them do.

 

[30907]

Most of them do.

Mostly it's the Stuttgart trains that way, with some Frankfurt services direct via Saarbrücken.

As a result (and with Ouigos in some paths) Paris-Strasbourg is anything but regular-interval.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Doesn't the Paris-Strasbourg train continue to Karlsruhe? I'm sure I did that a few years ago, on a TGV set sadly but if DB ICE sets do it too that would be even better

Some of the Paris-Strasbourg services which don't terminate there, don't go on into Germany but "turn right" and stay on the French side of the Rhine, going at least to Colmar. (I think services onwards further south from Colmar are generally not ones originating in Paris, from what I remember of the line.)