ÖBB orders double decker railjet

[Stephen Lee]

With the opening of the Koralmbahn in December 2025, international long-distance traffic will switch to a Salzburg- Villach - Graz (-Vienna) route. The Ennstal line, through which the trains currently run, will get an Interregio service with EMUs.

EMUs using Cityjet?

 

[Austriantrain]

EMUs using Cityjet?

It will be Cityjet at first, but a dedicated, more comfortable EMU fleet is planned.

 

[Stephen Lee]

It will be Cityjet at first, but a dedicated, more comfortable EMU fleet is planned.

More comfortable? Do you mean the one like double deck railjet?

 

[Austriantrain]

More comfortable? Do you mean the one like double deck railjet?

They will be single-deck, but with a more long distance-like layout with First Class and catering machines.

 

[Stephen Lee]

They will be single-deck, but with a more long distance-like layout with First Class and catering machines.

Will it be Siemens Desiro ML/Alstom
Coradia/Stadler Flirt or CRRC stuff?

 

[DanNCL]

Will it be Siemens Desiro ML/Alstom
Coradia/Stadler Flirt or CRRC stuff?

Nothing’s been ordered yet so could be any of those or something else entirely.

 

[StephenHunter]

Why don’t they use ICE-4 to run on the Graz route

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2023 ==


Correct, ÖBB is short on both day and night long distance rolling stocks. However, I wondered if there are any nightjet/international service expansion plans to be implemented

Paris-Berlin is due in December.

 

[popeter45]

what speed is the new double decker units?

 

[Stephen Lee]

Paris-Berlin is due in December.

Zürich-Rome/Barcelona?

 

[Austriantrain]

what speed is the new double decker units?

200 kph, plenty enough considering that they will be used on trains with rather frequent stops.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2023 ==

Zürich-Rome/Barcelona?

No one knows if they will come at all, let alone when. Unlike the Zurich - Germany trains, which pretty much pay for themselves because demand is so strong, those services will need co-financing by Switzerland and there doesn’t seem to be an agreement on it.

 

[Stephen Lee]

No one knows if they will come at all, let alone when. Unlike the Zurich - Germany trains, which pretty much pay for themselves because demand is so strong, those services will need co-financing by Switzerland and there doesn’t seem to be an agreement on it.

Lack of stock is another barrier

 

[Austriantrain]

Lack of stock is another barrier

That should get very much easier once all 33 new sets are in service.

Zurich - Rome will require one (well: two!) of those, while if Barcelona ever happens, it will be with classic sets, because the new NJ will not be approved for France (the Paris services will also remain with classic stock).

 

[Snow1964]

No one knows if they will come at all, let alone when. Unlike the Zurich - Germany trains, which pretty much pay for themselves because demand is so strong, those services will need co-financing by Switzerland and there doesn’t seem to be an agreement on it.

Extracting sections from recent article, these seem to be International services proposed that affect Austria

Vienna to Paris with Nightjet​

Austrian national rail firm ÖBB has been trailblazing Europe’s sleeper train revival with Nightjet since 2016. In late 2021, it launched a new route between Vienna and Paris via Salzburg and Munich.

The journey takes 14 hours and runs three times a week in both directions, with prices from around €30 for a seat to €120 and up for a private compartment.

In summer 2023, Nightjet will launch new-gen trains that rival first-class flights in comfort. Expect wireless charging stations, free wifi, bicycle and snow sports equipment storage and private compartments with their own showers and toilets.

Vienna to Genoa and La Spezia with Nightjet​

Nightjet's new 2023 timetable saw its Vienna/Munich service to Milan extended to Genoa and La Spezia in Italy. From here, you can take trains on to Monaco, Nice and Cinque Terre.

Munich to Genoa and La Spezia with Nightjet​

Nightjet's new 2023 timetable saw its Vienna/Munich service to Milan extended to Genoa and La Spezia in Italy. From here, onward travel to Monaco, Nice and Cinque Terre is possible.

Stuttgart to Zagreb and Rijeka with Nightjet and EuroNight​

In its new 2023 timetable, Nightjet extended its sleeper train service from Munich to Venice, Ljubljana and Zagreb to start in Stuttgart, Germany.

Seasonally, the route will also run to the coastal Croatian city of Rijeka, with a total journey time of around 15 hours.

The Nightjet to Venice travels via Munich, Salzburg and Treviso, while the service to the Croatian and Slovenian capitals is run by Croatian Railways HŽ and Slovenian Railways SŽ under ÖBB's EuroNight.

Amsterdam to Austria with TUI's Ski Express​

Snow sport lovers are bracing for a new overnight train launching between Amsterdam and some of Austria’s biggest ski resorts.

TUI’s ‘Ski Express’ will depart from Amsterdam every Friday night between 23 December and 31 March. After leaving the Dutch capital at 5:30pm, the service will stop at Utrecht, then continue directly to Austria.

Europe’s best new train routes for 2023

Spain's Renfe has launched its first cross-border high-speed train service.

www.euronews.com

 

[Austriantrain]

Extracting sections from recent article, these seem to be International services proposed that affect Austria

We were discussing routes from Switzerland though, not touching Austria.

 

[Stephen Lee]

That should get very much easier once all 33 new sets are in service.

Zurich - Rome will require one (well: two!) of those, while if Barcelona ever happens, it will be with classic sets, because the new NJ will not be approved for France (the Paris services will also remain with classic stock).

I wondered what traction they will use

 

[Austriantrain]

I wondered what traction they will use

We will find out if the service every happens Probably a Traxx, which is approved for France and should not present too many difficulties having it approved for the HSL to Barcelona.

 

[popeter45]

We will find out if the service every happens Probably a Traxx, which is approved for France and should not present too many difficulties having it approved for the HSL to Barcelona.

yea prob a 186 same as used between Paris - Karlsruhe on NJ468/469

 

[Stephen Lee]

We will find out if the service every happens Probably a Traxx, which is approved for France and should not present too many difficulties having it approved for the HSL to Barcelona.

I am asking what traction will be used for Zurich-Rome

 

[StephenHunter]

I am asking what traction will be used for Zurich-Rome

Depends on the routing, I suppose. SBB's 420 fleet, which started life pulling CIWL stuff, features on the Austrian services as far as Buchs SG, where the train has to reverse to enter Liechtenstein.

 

[Stephen Lee]

Depends on the routing, I suppose. SBB's 420 fleet, which started life pulling CIWL stuff, features on the Austrian services as far as Buchs SG, where the train has to reverse to enter Liechtenstein.

If they are using the new NJ sets I suppose they will equip 1216s to enable operation in Switzerland

 

[Austriantrain]

If they are using the new NJ sets I suppose they will equip 1216s to enable operation in Switzerland

They will have to use the new sets, because the old ones will not be allowed to run to Italy anymore (lack of sprinklers in passenger accommodation). That is why the new sets were ordered in the first place.

I would bet on a hypothetical Zurich - Rome night train to run via the Gotthard route. So it could be class 1216 throughout. But SBB/Trenitalia locos with a change at the border are equally possible.

*If* that train ever happens…

 

[StephenHunter]

They will have to use the new sets, because the old ones will not be allowed to run to Italy anymore (lack of sprinklers in passenger accommodation). That is why the new sets were ordered in the first place.

They've got some particularly long tunnels in Italy, so I can see that might be an issue as evacuating passengers in those would be difficult.

Another thing is that the long-rakes were being shunted from the rear into platforms, I believe; historically a pilot loco would have brought them in, but station pilots aren't really a thing anymore in Europe. The new sets have a Vectron-style driving trailer that will carry seated passengers.

 

[Austriantrain]

They've got some particularly long tunnels in Italy, so I can see that might be an issue as evacuating passengers in those would be difficult.

Another thing is that the long-rakes were being shunted from the rear into platforms, I believe; historically a pilot loco would have brought them in, but station pilots aren't really a thing anymore in Europe. The new sets have a Vectron-style driving trailer that will carry seated passengers.

Italy doesn’t have longer tunnels than other countries, but they have chosen to impose extra fire safety measures that the others do not have.

BTW, I found a German-language source stating that the Zurich - Rome NJ would run via Berne and the Lötschberg.

 

[Stephen Lee]

They will have to use the new sets, because the old ones will not be allowed to run to Italy anymore (lack of sprinklers in passenger accommodation). That is why the new sets were ordered in the first place.

I would bet on a hypothetical Zurich - Rome night train to run via the Gotthard route. So it could be class 1216 throughout. But SBB/Trenitalia locos with a change at the border are equally possible.

*If* that train ever happens…

Or is it possible to use Vectron from SBB Cargo International or BLS Cargo, Or Re474/E189 to haul the nightjet sets?

 

[Austriantrain]

Or is it possible to use Vectron from SBB Cargo International or BLS Cargo, Or Re474/E189 to haul the nightjet sets?

The locos need to be compatible with the sets. If they are, then I suppose anything is possible.

 

[43096]

Or is it possible to use Vectron from SBB Cargo International or BLS Cargo, Or Re474/E189 to haul the nightjet sets?

The RailJet and (new) NightJet sets use the ÖBB-WTB protocol. So yes to Vectron, ES64F4 would depend on config of the loco.

 

[Stephen Lee]

The RailJet and (new) NightJet sets use the ÖBB-WTB protocol. So yes to Vectron, ES64F4 would depend on config of the loco.

ICE-L also has ÖBB-WTB Protocol. But what about the train heating??

 

[StephenHunter]

ICE-L also has ÖBB-WTB Protocol. But what about the train heating??

The "NS" Vectrons do that with the existing stock. Until they have a fault, the system goes down and things get rather uncomfortable until they stop the train to reset everything, as happened to me in 2021.

I say "NS" as while they're painted in those colours, they have a German European Vehicle Number and are owned by the Austrian European Locomotive Leasing.

 

[ABB125]

I say "NS" as while they're painted in those colours, they have a German European Vehicle Number and are owned by the Austrian European Locomotive Leasing.

To be fair almost all Vectrons are German-registered. The only exceptions I can think of are the ÖBB ones used on freight (class 1293), and possibly some Slovakian ones that I'm sure I've seen (I think they were red). (Having checked, these are class 383.)

 

[Blindtraveler]

Reading this thread has wetted my appetite for another go on nightjet, I was on the inaugural Vienna Brussels back in January 2020, one of my few good memories of that year and as I really enjoyed the experience I now can't wait to do it again