West Ealing - Greenford fast-charge trial updates

[Trainbike46]

But if they don't do the trial and don't use the 230, then the 165 will still be needed to run the Greenford service. So it isn't free to strengthen other services either way.

And if the trial shows that the 230s with fastcharge work, the 165 can be used on other services and more 230s can be converted to free up more stock - so the trial could help reduce stock shortages in the longer term

 

[800301]

I don’t really see the issue with having the spare Greenford Turbo parked up at West Ealing while the 230 is trialed on the route, at the end of the day what else is going to rescue it if it fails for any reason? The turbo would have to come from Reading anyway causing more delays and disruption.

Hopefully it works and it’ll be something different, and it should get some good regen charging on approach to South Greenford, will be nice to learn a new traction even if it’s something oldish

I still think a fleet of 756’s would really be a lot nicer but can’t see anyone paying for them

 

[TurboMan]

Well, that just shows the misplaced priorities of the railway - a desperate stock shortage and a unit is tucked away just in case... Either get the 230s to a state where they are reliable (off-site) or don't, but don't tie up 'gold-dust' stock for the experiment.

I think you're missing the point of the trial, and the bigger picture. It's not about proving the reliability of 230s or whatever, it's about finding technologies, and trialling them in a real-world situation, that will contribute towards the aim of decarbonisation across the national (and global) rail network.

There is a place for electrification with OLE, but for many small branch lines (like the sort of lines that GWR operates, e.g. Greenford, St.Ives), there often isn't a business case for electrifying with OLE. At some point we will have to give up our reliance on using fossil fuels, so there is a desperate need to find a cost-effective alternative for those branches where electrification with OLE doesn't add up - if we don't, those branches are possibly at risk of closure.

That's what the trial on the Greenford branch is all about: it's a trial of technology, not a trial of a particular traction type. If it's successful, it doesn't necessarily follow that more 230s will be built from all the old D78 stock languishing in a field (although if that's a viable option, then why not?). But the technology could be licensed for use by other manufacturers in new-build stock.

Yes, it seems odd to keep a 16x sitting around at West Ealing, but if the 230 fails, it'll need to be rescued somehow, given that there is currently only one 230 proposed for running on the main line. Bringing a 16x from elsewhere is likely to cause unplanned disruption (given the lack of spare units at present) than planning to keep one available at West Ealing for rescue purposes. There might be some short-term pain as a result, but the push towards decarbonisation is probably the railway's biggest priority right now, which is why a lot of resource is being made available for the Greenford trial.

But as I said in a previous post, the initial plan is to keep a 16x at West Ealing - nothing stops that changing in future, releasing the 16x for use elsewhere.

 

[45669]

Does anybody know when the trials with the Class 230 are likely to begin?

 

[RobShipway]

Does anybody know when the trails with the Class 230 are likely to begin?

I think that it will be a while yet, before the trials begin. As I believe it has been stated earlier in the thread GWR still have to convert 230003 - 230005 to BEMU from being DEMU and that is not a quick task, even if you have to hand ex - Vivarail staff. You have also got the setup of charging points not only at Reading Depot, but also at either Greenford or West Ealing or possibly both.

The trails will certainly begin I believe before 2025. GWR have purposely, not set a date for trials or when the class 230 units will be in service.

 

[Benjwri]

As I believe it has been stated earlier in the thread GWR still have to convert 230003 - 230005 to BEMU from being DEMU and that is not a quick task, even if you have to hand ex - Vivarail staff.

These units aren't being converted before the trail, which just needs 230001 to complete the testing it's undergoing and training. The aim is the end of this year AIUI, whether that will happen, who knows?

 

[45669]

Well, it'll be interesting to see when it does take place. Does anyone know how long it will take to install the charging infrastructure? Presumably this hasn't been started yet.

 

[swt_passenger]

Well, it'll be interesting to see when it does take place. Does anyone know how long it will take to install the charging infrastructure? Presumably this hasn't been started yet.

Post #40 by @Dstock7080 reckoned by the end of the year, seems to have been based on updates during the show at Long Marston.

 

[45669]

No doubt it will be well covered in the railway press - not to mention on here.

 

[Purple Train]

I wonder whether, if this is a success, the old LNR 230s (currently parked up at Reading) will be converted?

 

[Deepgreen]

I think you're missing the point of the trial, and the bigger picture. It's not about proving the reliability of 230s or whatever, it's about finding technologies, and trialling them in a real-world situation, that will contribute towards the aim of decarbonisation across the national (and global) rail network.

There is a place for electrification with OLE, but for many small branch lines (like the sort of lines that GWR operates, e.g. Greenford, St.Ives), there often isn't a business case for electrifying with OLE. At some point we will have to give up our reliance on using fossil fuels, so there is a desperate need to find a cost-effective alternative for those branches where electrification with OLE doesn't add up - if we don't, those branches are possibly at risk of closure.

That's what the trial on the Greenford branch is all about: it's a trial of technology, not a trial of a particular traction type. If it's successful, it doesn't necessarily follow that more 230s will be built from all the old D78 stock languishing in a field (although if that's a viable option, then why not?). But the technology could be licensed for use by other manufacturers in new-build stock.

Yes, it seems odd to keep a 16x sitting around at West Ealing, but if the 230 fails, it'll need to be rescued somehow, given that there is currently only one 230 proposed for running on the main line. Bringing a 16x from elsewhere is likely to cause unplanned disruption (given the lack of spare units at present) than planning to keep one available at West Ealing for rescue purposes. There might be some short-term pain as a result, but the push towards decarbonisation is probably the railway's biggest priority right now, which is why a lot of resource is being made available for the Greenford trial.

But as I said in a previous post, the initial plan is to keep a 16x at West Ealing - nothing stops that changing in future, releasing the 16x for use elsewhere.

I understand all of that, but GWR is desperately short of stock at present, so keeping a unit spare seems bizarre when surely some other form of rescue vehicle (a unit, a loco from anywhere - a redundant Pacer, for example) could do the job. If technology needs to be trialled, do it off-network (still a 'real-world situation') where disruption won't occur and valuable passenger stock won't sit idle just in case. The 769s were a technology trial of sorts that should have been done off-network too. Anyway, here's hoping the trials are a success. Meanwhile, short-forming continues apace elsewhere on the GWR network.

 

[800301]

I understand all of that, but GWR is desperately short of stock at present, so keeping a unit spare seems bizarre when surely some other form of rescue vehicle (a unit, a loco from anywhere - a redundant Pacer, for example) could do the job. If technology needs to be trialled, do it off-network (still a 'real-world situation') where disruption won't occur and valuable passenger stock won't sit idle just in case. The 769s were a technology trial of sorts that should have been done off-network too. Anyway, here's hoping the trials are a success. Meanwhile, short-forming continues apace elsewhere on the GWR network.

A unit, just like turbo that would be allocated anyway which has been proposed, eventually won't always be there, I am at a loss as to how a single 2 car turbo is going to solve all the problems elsewhere, it's one unit, that if the 230 isn't available will be needed anyway so can't really be allocated or planned to work elsewhere, it's also been said before that if the 230 fails it can only be replaced by a 2 car turbo which if it's kept in Reading or used elsewhere is going to cause a lot more disruption having to get it down from wherever else it is, If there were 3 230 units stored at West Ealing, for example, I could see why also having a turbo sitting spare all day could be an issue but it really isn't in this case.

A pacer, no one signs them, a loco, not sure where you'll have a spare one conveniently located and knowledge of how to rescue the unit and you still have the problem that it needs to be replaced with something...

 

[BrianW]

A unit, just like turbo that would be allocated anyway which has been proposed, eventually won't always be there, I am at a loss as to how a single 2 car turbo is going to solve all the problems elsewhere, it's one unit, that if the 230 isn't available will be needed anyway so can't really be allocated or planned to work elsewhere, it's also been said before that if the 230 fails it can only be replaced by a 2 car turbo which if it's kept in Reading or used elsewhere is going to cause a lot more disruption having to get it down from wherever else it is, If there were 3 230 units stored at West Ealing, for example, I could see why also having a turbo sitting spare all day could be an issue but it really isn't in this case.

Is there no kind of 'rescue' loco of any kind stabled at what's left of Old Oak? Where are the locos for the Night Sleeper held? Unless passengers need to be rescued I would imagine a Rail Replacement, or even regular Greenford-Ealing, bus? Unit fails, confidence falls, Experiment fails?

 

[43096]

A pacer, no one signs them, a loco, not sure where you'll have a spare one conveniently located and knowledge of how to rescue the unit and you still have the problem that it needs to be replaced with something...

I assume the unit has an emergancy Wedgelock coupler on it, as nothing else GWR has is so fitted. The Thunderbird 57 (312) has Dellners.

 

[JonathanH]

Is there no kind of 'rescue' loco of any kind stabled at what's left of Old Oak?

Nothing is left at Old Oak except the Elizabeth Line depot. No locomotives needed at either North Pole or Old Oak.

I'm not sure the freight companies would take kindly to locomotives being commandeered from Acton Yard.

Where are the locos for the Night Sleeper held?

Reading

 

[Invincible]

Post #40 by @Dstock7080 reckoned by the end of the year, seems to have been based on updates during the show at Long Marston.

Presume all the testing at Long Marston is complete?. The video says Network Rail will move kit to Ealing imminently.

 

[JohnRegular]

I have no doubt that if the 230 were to fail during its trial and a spare train wasn't on hand, there would be much murmuring on here about how foolish it was to run a new and largely unproven train in service without a convenient backup.

 

[Taunton]

Is there no kind of 'rescue' loco of any kind stabled at what's left of Old Oak? Where are the locos for the Night Sleeper held? Unless passengers need to be rescued I would imagine a Rail Replacement, or even regular Greenford-Ealing, bus? Unit fails, confidence falls, Experiment fails?

Surely the 08 shunter from the charter operator base at Southall would be only too glad to rumble over and deal with any failure in short order ... .

 

[Invincible]

Yes, it seems odd to keep a 16x sitting around at West Ealing, but if the 230 fails, it'll need to be rescued somehow, given that there is currently only one 230 proposed for running on the main line. Bringing a 16x from elsewhere is likely to cause unplanned disruption (given the lack of spare units at present) than planning to keep one available at West Ealing for rescue purposes. There might be some short-term pain as a result, but the push towards decarbonisation is probably the railway's biggest priority right now, which is why a lot of resource is being made available for the Greenford trial.

But as I said in a previous post, the initial plan is to keep a 16x at West Ealing - nothing stops that changing in future, releasing the 16x for use elsewhere.

I expect GWR will be keen to get the 16x back as a general spare DMU at Reading, as soon as possibile, for the Thames valley area if the 230 is reliable?
Then perhaps using the other 230s, stored at Reading, converted to battery for other short branch lines, releasing more 16x DMUs.

 

[anthony263]

I expect GWR will be keen to get the 16x back as a general spare DMU at Reading, as soon as possibile, for the Thames valley area if the 230 is reliable?
Then perhaps using the other 230s, stored at Reading, converted to battery for other short branch lines, releasing more 16x DMUs.

I suspect that's their thinking