West Ealing - Greenford fast-charge trial updates

[fgwrich]

The GWR's Class 769s have 3rd rail pickup shoes.

And the GWR did own some 4th rail trains 100 years ago. Early Hammersmith & City stock was jointly owned between the Metropolitan Railway and the GWR, until the GWR sold its share to the Met in 1923.

Not forgetting all those 387s with their rarely used Shoes

Not that it really matters to the 230 trial.

 

[Mollman]

The American version of the battery 230 seems to be running at a museum

Ex-London Underground D78 Stock in Pennsylvania (Pop Up Metro Class 230)​

High Iron Productions
2.68K subscribers



629 views 3 Apr 2023 ROCKHILL TROLLEY MUSEUM
The mountains and former narrow gauge coal railroading territory of central southern Pennsylvania isn't the first place you'd expect to find former London Underground trains in operation, but in Rockhill Furnace, two 2-car sets can be found shuttling up and down a couple of miles of rural track under test for Pop Up Metro. Using the Shade Gap Electric Railway of the Rockhill Trolley Museum, a former East Broad Top narrow gauge branch that was widened to standard gauge for the trolley museum, Pop Up Metro is currently testing two Vivarail-remanufactured D78 stock sets, now battery-powered, and given the UK TOPs designation; Class 230. Pop Up Metro aims to eventually take the trains to various cities across the US as real-life feasibility study test-beds for potential commuter rail service on existing rail infrastructure. They will travel complete with temporary "kit" stations that can be installed along the routes during the studies (hence the "pop-up" name). Class 230s currently operate in-service in the UK with Transport for Wales, London Northwestern Railway, and GWR, with third-rail electric versions operating with South Western Railway on the Isle of Wight. Originally designated as D78 Stock for the London Underground, they were built by Metro-Cammell in 1979 for the sub-surface District Line, traveling between west London and Upminster in the east for almost 40 years. Although now running on battery power with fairly major changes to the cab and front-ends, they retain much the same feel, with their interiors retaining the configuration they were retired with (albeit with updated colors and moquettes). Their traction motors continue to produce their iconic low hum, with a high-pitch whine from the battery propulsion system being the only difference. In this video, we catch 230002 as it switches from the storage track and heads out for a demonstration run, with the adjacent East Broad Top steam excursion providing an audible backdrop to the action.


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[D365]

I also spotted that video on my youtube this morning. Was wondering what the future of 002 and 011 would be looking like.

Not sure what they mean about traction motor sounds and battery system whine, though. The traction electronics and motors have been completed changed out from their D78 spec.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I also spotted that video on my youtube this morning. Was wondering what the future of 002 and 011 would be looking like.

Not sure what they mean about traction motor sounds and battery system whine, though. The traction electronics and motors have been completed changed out from their D78 spec.

The batteries don't whine, it's the traction motors. The sound people know as DC traction motor sound isn't that at all, DC motors don't make much of a sound, it's from straight cut gears in the transmission, and is still heard alongside the AC motor whine.

 

[Invincible]

So is anyone able to give a rough idea when they expect the Greenford trial using 230001 to start?

Guess it will sometime be after the Easter break?.
There does not seem to be any updates?

 

[TurboMan]

Guess it will sometime be after the Easter break?.
There does not seem to be any updates?

It'll still be a while before anything much happens on the Greenford branch. The unit is still at Bletchley, plans are being made to transport to Long Marston by road for further testing, then at some point down to West Ealing. First test runs on the branch are probably 6 months away.

 

[D365]

The unit is still at Bletchley, plans are being made to transport to Long Marston by road for further testing…

Forgot to check, last time I was there, if the fast charge rails are still in place outside the ex-Vivarail shed!

 

[aem7ac]

The American version of the battery 230 seems to be running at a museum

There is a pair of them there. It was selected by Railroad Development Corporation as the testing grounds. Unclear if a trial on the Iowa Interstate Railroad will go ahead as planned.

 

[Roger B]

It'll still be a while before anything much happens on the Greenford branch. The unit is still at Bletchley, plans are being made to transport to Long Marston by road for further testing, then at some point down to West Ealing. First test runs on the branch are probably 6 months away.

Many thanks TurboMan

 

[Dstock7080]

Update to situation for Greenford:
shoe charging installed by end of 2023

 

[Deepgreen]

There is a pair of them there. It was selected by Railroad Development Corporation as the testing grounds. Unclear if a trial on the Iowa Interstate Railroad will go ahead as planned.

I had heard there were six cars in all at the museum - perhaps they are running as two and three car sets?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2023 ==

Update to situation for Greenford:
shoe charging installed by end of 2023

Wow, it's so slow to get anything done...

 

[Purple Train]

What's going to happen when the unit fails? Is there just going to be no service until it's fixed?

 

[The exile]

What's going to happen when the unit fails? Is there just going to be no service until it's fixed?

IIRC, this one’s a proper trial - so the turbo will be on standby- only question is, where?

 

[william.martin]

IIRC, this one’s a proper trial - so the turbo will be on standby- only question is, where?

Reading?

 

[12LDA28C]

IIRC, this one’s a proper trial - so the turbo will be on standby- only question is, where?

Plenty of locations in the vicinity where a 2-car 165 could be stabled on standby, not least in the bay at West Ealing.

 

[PGAT]

Plenty of locations in the vicinity where a 2-car 165 could be stabled on standby, not least in the bay at West Ealing.

Wouldn’t the bay platform be needed for the trial run?

 

[The exile]

Plenty of locations in the vicinity where a 2-car 165 could be stabled on standby, not least in the bay at West Ealing.

Don’t doubt it - but there’s a vast difference between where it could be stored and where it would be!

 

[Deepgreen]

Plenty of locations in the vicinity where a 2-car 165 could be stabled on standby, not least in the bay at West Ealing.

I don't think there is that level of spare stock luxury!

 

[SynthD]

There are sidings west of the station. I think one of them can be used for daily maintenance if they don’t want to send it back to Reading every night.

 

[SWT_USER]

IIRC, this one’s a proper trial - so the turbo will be on standby- only question is, where?

Even if that is the current plan, I would be astounded if that is what happens once the trial starts. GWR are woefully short of stock and the Greenford branch is nothing but an operational inconvenience for them. No way they will have a Turbo on standby all day for the tiny numbers using the branch.

 

[12LDA28C]

Wouldn’t the bay platform be needed for the trial run?

When Chiltern were running into the bay, they would stable their 165 on the stops whilst the GWR 165 arrived and departed ahead of it. It would depend which end of the line the charging takes place, if Greenford then there would be no issue, if at West Ealing then the Plassers sidings west of the station could be used to stable a spare unit as required.

 

[swt_passenger]

When Chiltern were running into the bay, they would stable their 165 on the stops whilst the GWR 165 arrived and departed ahead of it. It would depend which end of the line the charging takes place, if Greenford then there would be no issue, if at West Ealing then the Plassers sidings west of the station could be used to stable a spare unit as required.

I believe the charging is definitely to be at West Ealing, there’s been a few different threads on this subject but IIRC someone said they wanted to keep well clear of any possible impact on LU infrastructure.

 

[TurboMan]

Even if that is the current plan, I would be astounded if that is what happens once the trial starts. GWR are woefully short of stock and the Greenford branch is nothing but an operational inconvenience for them. No way they will have a Turbo on standby all day for the tiny numbers using the branch.

Prepare to be astounded, as that's exactly what will be happening. The diagrammed 16x will be in West Ealing LMD in case it is needed to rescue the 230 and pick up the passenger service. At least initially anyway- once there is confidence in the 230's reliability and range, then the 16x might be used elsewhere.

 

[Benjwri]

Prepare to be astounded, as that's exactly what will be happening. The diagrammed 16x will be in West Ealing LMD in case it is needed to rescue the 230 and pick up the passenger service. At least initially anyway- once there is confidence in the 230's reliability and range, then the 16x might be used elsewhere.

It's the plan, but I think the point is it's fairly common for a unit to fail, and when it does this unit at West Ealing might end up being redistributed to pick up the slack.

 

[BrianW]

It's the plan, but I think the point is it's fairly common for a unit to fail, and when it does this unit at West Ealing might end up being redistributed to pick up the slack.

Might it be possible to 'drift' (free-wheel?)- into W. Ealing station on a 'low battery'? That wouldn't be possible at Greenford, which is steeply up at the Central Line level. I know nothing about such things beyond sitting behind the driver of a bubblecar going down back in the day- happy memory

 

[Benjwri]

Might it be possible to 'drift' (free-wheel?)- into W. Ealing station on a 'low battery'? That wouldn't be possible at Greenford, which is steeply up at the Central Line level. I know nothing about such things beyond sitting behind the driver of a bubblecar going down back in the day- happy memory

I meant another 165 failing and it being sent to cover that.

 

[Deepgreen]

Prepare to be astounded, as that's exactly what will be happening. The diagrammed 16x will be in West Ealing LMD in case it is needed to rescue the 230 and pick up the passenger service. At least initially anyway- once there is confidence in the 230's reliability and range, then the 16x might be used elsewhere.

Well, that just shows the misplaced priorities of the railway - a desperate stock shortage and a unit is tucked away just in case... Either get the 230s to a state where they are reliable (off-site) or don't, but don't tie up 'gold-dust' stock for the experiment.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I meant another 165 failing and it being sent to cover that.

Yes. The simple question I have is regarding the current situation. If the currently used 165 fails on the Greenford branch where is the backup 165 ?. Is it at Reading, somewhere nearer or does not exist ?. The point is that what ever current backup exists will suffice if the 230 takes over the current 165 operated service surely ?.

 

[12LDA28C]

Well, that just shows the misplaced priorities of the railway - a desperate stock shortage and a unit is tucked away just in case... Either get the 230s to a state where they are reliable (off-site) or don't, but don't tie up 'gold-dust' stock for the experiment.

There's one unit, as I understand it. Makes sense to have a standby at least initially whilst they assess its reliability.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2023 ==

Yes. The simple question I have is regarding the current situation. If the currently used 165 fails on the Greenford branch where is the backup 165 ?. Is it at Reading, somewhere nearer or does not exist ?. The point is that what ever current backup exists will suffice if the 230 takes over the current 165 operated service surely ?.

The 165s are a known quantity - rather more requirement for a standby for a brand new experimental unit which one might assume would have considerably more chance of failing in service.

 

[greatkingrat]

Well, that just shows the misplaced priorities of the railway - a desperate stock shortage and a unit is tucked away just in case... Either get the 230s to a state where they are reliable (off-site) or don't, but don't tie up 'gold-dust' stock for the experiment.

But if they don't do the trial and don't use the 230, then the 165 will still be needed to run the Greenford service. So it isn't free to strengthen other services either way.