Exminster station - Is this a future Devon Metro reopening?

[adrock1976]

Having had a look at various schematic maps of the Devon Metro concept, it has Marsh Barton on the line between Exeter and Newton Abbott.

When having a quick look at the Wikipedia page (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disused_railway_stations_on_the_Exeter_to_Plymouth_Line#Exminster), the last paragraph in the Axminster section states that "In an update in April 2020, officers of Devon County Council said that a decision had been made to prioritise Marsh Barton over a possible reopening of this station. Lack of track capacity meant that it was 'almost impossible' to open both."

Does this now mean that Exminster is very unlikely to reopen at all being as Marsh Barton is nearing completion?

As a side note, I have had a go at seeing if the local Exmouth - Paignton calling all stations would fit involving an overtake at Dawlish Warren by the Paddington - Plymouth/Penzance via Westbury Avoiding Line, and the north of Birmingham - Plymouth/Penzance XC exactly 30 minutes apart. With a reopened Exminster and assuming 75mph max, it only just about fits. Although this is on paper (or spreadsheet), it would not be very robust at all in everyday practice.

As the linespeed between St Thomas and Starcross is 100mph over that five mile stretch, assuming 100mph is 3 minutes and 90 mph is 3 min 20 sec to cover non stop. Again, it does not trim a lot off the run time St Davids - Dawlish Warren, and I am of the view of not to bother reopening Exminster at all.

 

[Kite159]

Marsh Barton is nearing completion?

Not just nearing completion but now open.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The problem with Exminster station was that it was too far from the village and Devon General's buses quickly took its traffic from the 1920s. The village has considerably expanded recently and some of the new housing is nearer to the former station site, but it is still not ideal. It is not on Devon CC's radar - only the Rly. Dev. Soc. mention it from time to time. There were loops here until the Exeter resignalling of the 1980s.

 

[Cowley]

The problem with Exminster station was that it was too far from the village and Devon General's buses quickly took its traffic from the 1920s. The village has considerably expanded recently and some of the new housing is nearer to the former station site, but it is still not ideal. It is not on Devon CC's radar - only the Rly. Dev. Soc. mention it from time to time. There were loops here until the Exeter resignalling of the 1980s.

You’d almost be better to build an entirely new Exminster station off Milbury Lane, where there’s an existing railway overbridge and a walking route that takes you closer to the centre of the town.

 

[irish_rail]

I think we need to be careful here about slowing down the express services. Ineveitably, the more stops the locals make , its going to have an adverse affect on the long distance stuff. It will be interesting to see if Marsh Barton has a negative impact the minute there is any late running by the stopper (or the Express).....

 

[adrock1976]

Not just nearing completion but now open.

Many thanks for confirming.

You’d almost be better to build an entirely new Exminster station off Milbury Lane, where there’s an existing railway overbridge and a walking route that takes you closer to the centre of the town.

I have had a look at the map of Milbury Lane. Although it is closer to the centre, it seems quite a hike from the nearest bus stop.

Also, Milbury Lane looks like a narrow lane so unsure if a bus would fit.

I think we need to be careful here about slowing down the express services. Ineveitably, the more stops the locals make , its going to have an adverse affect on the long distance stuff. It will be interesting to see if Marsh Barton has a negative impact the minute there is any late running by the stopper (or the Express).....

Going by what I have seen on the RTT website a couple of weeks ago, the trains to and from London seem to have double digit delays. Not just one day, but across several days it seems to have happened. Going by what I had in front of me, it seems that the timetable does not seem to be robust enough when it was revised for the IETs.

Also, the XC extensions from Bristol to Paignton either have not run, been curtailed at Newton Abbott so as to get back on time, or curtailed at Exeter. Furthermore, even though it is the Summer timetable, I could not see any XC extensions to Newquay at all.

Going across to the other side of Exeter with the possible reopening of Cullompton and Wellington, I have got that to fit as a local Taunton - Exeter service every 30 minutes, with alternate trains continuing to Axminster (running beyond St Davids broadly in the opposite half hour to the London Waterloo). I could not get Wellington and Cullompton to fit in the London train that calls Newbury, Westbury, Castle Cary, etc as the next train that uses the Westbury Avoiding Line would be too close behind.

Very quickly moving outwith Devon to west of the Tamar to a Celtic region, I have noticed that Lostwithiel has very little London trains calling there. Has this always been the case, or is this recent since the IETs were introduced? Fowey is only a few miles south, and a bus link Lostwithiel - Fowey integrated in the railway ticketing system would help reduce car usage.

 

[30907]

I have noticed that Lostwithiel has very little London trains calling there. Has this always been the case, or is this recent since the IETs were introduced? Fowey is only a few miles south, and a bus link Lostwithiel - Fowey integrated in the railway ticketing system would help reduce car usage.

That has been the case as long as I can remember. Par is nearer to Fowey, the London trains need to stop for the Newquay connection, and there is already a bus service.

 

[Irascible]

Devon's also a celtic region, everyone seems to have forgotten about it ( people tend to move in & take over here ).

Delays on the expressex could also be unreliable IET engines, all is not well there apparently - praps one of the native drivers could weigh in.

 

[irish_rail]

Devon's also a celtic region, everyone seems to have forgotten about it ( people tend to move in & take over here ).

Delays on the expressex could also be unreliable IET engines, all is not well there apparently - praps one of the native drivers could weigh in.

Correct on the Devon South west Celtic bit. On the second bit, even with an engine out , an IET will keep to time. Two engines out and you may lose a couple of minutes. Certainly not double digits.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I think the Exeter City Council and Devon County Council hope that Marsh Barton will cut traffic in and out of the city for those working there. Exminster will only serve the village. It is also under Teignbridge council who may not be too interested in Exeters traffic problems.

 

[adrock1976]

Having searched online for a Devon Metro plan for the Plymouth end, I came across something in the local rag that is dated from a couple of years ago.

It makes reference to the former stations at Plympton and South Brent for reopening, plus a new station where there has never been one before west of the Tamar at Trerulefoot (for a park and ride). See https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/new-plymouth-metro-could-include-1136309 and https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/plymouth-london-tube-style-underground-4890065

Were these genuine proposals, or was it a canvassing votes for an election campaign, going by the date on the articles? Also, if Trerulefoot was to be constructed, would it be worthwhile in formally closing Menheniot as it is a request stop and quite a hike to the nearest bus stop on the main A38, and no buses go north of the station to the settlement it is named after?

NB Both the news articles contain videos that play automatically. I would have copied and pasted the diagram showing Trerulefoot but it is very grainy at my end. I can have a go later at copying and pasting the main body of the text later on if need be.

 

[irish_rail]

Having searched online for a Devon Metro plan for the Plymouth end, I came across something in the local rag that is dated from a couple of years ago.

It makes reference to the former stations at Plympton and South Brent for reopening, plus a new station where there has never been one before west of the Tamar at Trerulefoot (for a park and ride). See https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/new-plymouth-metro-could-include-1136309 and https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/plymouth-london-tube-style-underground-4890065

Were these genuine proposals, or was it a canvassing votes for an election campaign, going by the date on the articles? Also, if Trerulefoot was to be constructed, would it be worthwhile in formally closing Menheniot as it is a request stop and quite a hike to the nearest bus stop on the main A38, and no buses go north of the station to the settlement it is named after?

NB Both the news articles contain videos that play automatically. I would have copied and pasted the diagram showing Trerulefoot but it is very grainy at my end. I can have a go later at copying and pasting the main body of the text later on if need be.

I'm not convinced Plymouth suits a park and ride station nearby, as North Rd Station isn't even in the city centre, but more to the point , fewer and fewer people travel into the city centre anyway, its slowly dying a death. Similarly, Plympton doesn't make much sense, as the buses take you right into city centre but the trains will only take you to North Road. So a very steep climb for eastbound services which wouldn't get any run up for Hemerdon Bank.

 

[Bartsimho]

I'm not convinced Plymouth suits a park and ride station nearby, as North Rd Station isn't even in the city centre, but more to the point , fewer and fewer people travel into the city centre anyway, its slowly dying a death. Similarly, Plympton doesn't make much sense, as the buses take you right into city centre but the trains will only take you to North Road. So a very steep climb for eastbound services which wouldn't get any run up for Hemerdon Bank.

I think they do want to extend Okehampton-Tavistock-Bere Alston for a run around line which might also require some doubling of the track. (Gives resiliency if issues occur at Dawlish and connects Tavistock 11k to the network.)

Unfortunately Brixham is a no go with there being no old line and the need to take over the Dartmouth Steam Railway

 

[zwk500]

I think they do want to extend Okehampton-Tavistock-Bere Alston for a run around line which might also require some doubling of the track. (Gives resiliency if issues occur at Dawlish and connects Tavistock 11k to the network.)

I believe the only plan to reach Tavistock is from Bere Alston and terminate (Services would run Plymouth-Tavistock and Plymouth-Gunnislake via Reversal at Bere Alston). AFAIK there is no official proposal to reopen Okehampton-Tavistock (it's been looked at in feasibility reports to answer the Withered Arm Liberation Front and been fairly clear in it's 'not-going-to-happen-ness').

Resilience for Dawlish was addressed by building a major upgrade to the sea wall at Dawlish itself.

Regarding Exminster station - given what has been said about the timetable having space for 1 station but not 2, it will need new rolling stock (potentially electric rolling stock) with better acceleration to release some space in the timetable, and even then you're really painting trains into a corner because after leaving St Davids the Stopper would be making 4 stops before it could potentially get out of an express's way at Dawlish Warren. The time difference between an express and a stopper between Exeter St D. and Dawlish Warren would be about 10-12 minutes so if you get a delay further up the line that puts the express the wrong side of the stopping train it could kill the service into Cornwall for the rest of the day.

 

[geoffk]

I think we need to be careful here about slowing down the express services. Inevitably, the more stops the locals make, its going to have an adverse affect on the long distance stuff. It will be interesting to see if Marsh Barton has a negative impact the minute there is any late running by the stopper (or the Express).

The local service already omits certain stations on the main line because of pathing constraints, despite the loops at Dawlish Warren, and there's another new station near Torquay (Edginswell) in the pipeline. XC and GWR Inter-City trains to Paignton don't run to a regular pattern, while Paignton station must be awkward to operate as trains can depart only from platform 2.

 

[Irascible]

Plymouth is also a Unitary authority, so any work with DCC ( who really seem to be trying their best with what they can get, as ever ) has a whole extra bunch of hoops to go through. Plymouth UTA had Big Plans for all sorts of things the last time I had a look ( very little involving railways ), but as it's the other side of the county I don't look often. Tavistock-Bere Alston is the (vaguely) likely connection, not Tavistock-Okehampton, and let's nip that debate in the bud again

Exminster has enough space for a loop on the down side, I think?

 

[Bartsimho]

Plymouth is also a Unitary authority, so any work with DCC ( who really seem to be trying their best with what they can get, as ever ) has a whole extra bunch of hoops to go through. Plymouth UTA had Big Plans for all sorts of things the last time I had a look ( very little involving railways ), but as it's the other side of the county I don't look often. Tavistock-Bere Alston is the (vaguely) likely connection, not Tavistock-Okehampton, and let's nip that debate in the bud again

Exminster has enough space for a loop on the down side, I think?

If Bere Alston to Tavistock is built there would immediately be calls for Tavistock to Okehampton citing a Northern route round the national park and connecting Okehampton to Plymouth

 

[zwk500]

If Bere Alston to Tavistock is built there would immediately be calls for Tavistock to Okehampton citing a Northern route round the national park and connecting Okehampton to Plymouth

There can be as many calls as you like, it won't wash it's face when the costs come in.

 

[Cowley]

Probably best we don’t get too involved with the Dartmoor route in this thread as it’s fair to say that we may have already discussed it on the forum over the years just a little bit.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Exminster has enough space for a loop on the down side, I think?

Exminster had both up & down loops at one time plus sidings. It will be extraordinarily expensive to reinstate either of them.

 

[Cowley]

Exminster had both up & down loops at one time plus sidings. It will be extraordinarily expensive to reinstate either of them.

Another bit of trackwork that survived until surprisingly late. I think they were removed not long before colour light/Exeter power box scheme weren’t they?

 

[Irascible]

Come to think of it, would there be any room in the current S&T infrastructure for a loop or two...

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The (large) signal-box at Exminster was used for a time after the Exeter resignalling for twitchers to observe the bird flocks in the nature reserve. It was eventually demolished - I think it had become structurally unsound.

 

[Xavi]

It is also under Teignbridge council who may not be too interested in Exeters traffic problems.

Devon CC is responsible for traffic.

Exminster had both up & down loops at one time plus sidings. It will be extraordinarily expensive to reinstate either of them.

Relatively inexpensive given it would allow reinstatement of the station and increased capacity/ reliability between Exeter and Newton Abbot. Will not be considered until Exeter resignalling though, hence no plans for a station in the meantime.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2023 ==

Going across to the other side of Exeter with the possible reopening of Cullompton and Wellington, I have got that to fit as a local Taunton - Exeter service every 30 minutes

These reopenings are very likely to go ahead and expected to be served by the Cardiff-Penzance trains.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The (large) signal-box at Exminster was used for a time after the Exeter resignalling for twitchers to observe the bird flocks in the nature reserve. It was eventually demolished - I think it had become structurally unsound.

It was removed by the G&WR for eventual use at Broadway but I understand it was quietly disposed of.

 

[Cowley]

It was removed by the G&WR for eventual use at Broadway but I understand it was quietly disposed of.

When I was young I spent a period of time living in my old VW camper (cheap rent ) in the carpark next to the old signalbox.

 

[Snow1964]

A local report from Plymouth area seems to suggest some Restoring Your Railway Fund decisions due any day. Not going to comment until we see what (and when) is announced

Rail decision for Tavistock to Plymouth 'imminent' from Department for Transport

An announcement from the Department for Transport regarding the reinstatement of the former railway line between Tavistock and Bere Alston has been described as “imminent” by the county councillor for transport.

www.tavistock-today.co.uk

 

[Gloster]

The Up Goods Loop at Exminster was converted into a siding from 13 June 1976, but this had gone by the end of 1980. The box itself closed in 1986 and after approaching twenty years in use for bird watching it was dismantled. It was acquired by a group from the Gloucestershire-Warwickshire Railway (not the GWR itself) in the hope that it would be used at Broadway. From what I have read it was a story of well-intentioned disorganisation and what was left was finally broken up when it was too far gone to be resurrected.