Seated rail staff, passengers standing

[Western Sunset]

My take is that if a staff member is in uniform (or a suit with a lanyard), then they are representing their company - whether on duty or not. If they have any pride in their work and the firm they work for (I know, I know...), then surely it's beholden on them to show that company in the best light.

But then there is reality...

 

[Bluejays]

My take is that if a staff member is in uniform (or a suit with a lanyard), then they are representing their company - whether on duty or not. If they have any pride in their work and the firm they work for (I know, I know...), then surely it's beholden on them to show that company in the best light.

But then there is reality...

How far does that extend though? Should a British gas employee give up their bus seat on production of a bill? Should I also be expected to step back in the queue at the coffee shop if I spot a first class passenger behind me ?

If we were talking about disruptive/abusive behaviour I'd understand. The idea that sitting down on your commute is somehow an immoral action just seems mad.

 

[43066]

There is a local agreement in my department for example ; that we are allowed to take our meal break on in service vehicles if there are no suitable break facilities at our work location .

Slightly OT but very poor indeed that staff - especially if uniformed/identifiable - are being expected to take their break on vehicles in passenger service (I’m assuming this is on the buses).

One of the worst I can remember was a GTR driver who spent the entire journey (in declassified first, of course) on her mobile phone, banging on about how she’d just come back from long-term sickness, how she was “milking it as much as I can”, and how she was going to spin things to get light duties and/working 9-5 for as long as she could get away with despite being fully recovered now. TBF it was extremely tempting to take a covert video and send it to her employer.

Dreadful behaviour. There are some staff who lack any sense of self awareness.

My take is that if a staff member is in uniform (or a suit with a lanyard), then they are representing their company - whether on duty or not. If they have any pride in their work and the firm they work for (I know, I know...), then surely it's beholden on them to show that company in the best light.

But then there is reality...

They might not have any pride in either. They may loathe both their job and their employer, and simply see their work as a necessary evil to pay the bills or be working their notice, be about to retire etc.

The reality that morale is low at the moment and, in such circumstances, you’ll find people are less inclined to do the “customer service” bit. That’s just human nature.

How far does that extend though? Should a British gas employee give up their bus seat on production of a bill? Should I also be expected to step back in the queue at the coffee shop if I spot a first class passenger behind me ?

If we were talking about disruptive/abusive behaviour I'd understand. The idea that sitting down on your commute is somehow an immoral action just seems mad.

How the notion that staff should give up their seats translates to other industries is a good question. I’m not so sure it does. When I was queuing up in M&S the other day I noticed that the lady in the queue in
front of me was wearing a staff uniform (presumably on a break). I suppose according to some I should have expected her to stand aside and let me go first, because “don’t you know I’m a customer”!

It would take a very pompous and entitled individual to expect that, in my view.

 

[norbitonflyer]

My one and only encounter with Boris Johnson was when he was Mayor of London, travelling on an SWT train (so not a service he was responsible for), and I remarked that it was a pity he couldn't get a seat. I was expecting a reply that it would be better if he was in charge of SWT (a few years later there was a proposal to do so, but the Member for Epsom - who was Transport Secretary at the time - objected), but instead he remarked that it wouldn't look good to be taking a seat to the exclusion of one of his constituents.

So even he gets it.

 

[warwickshire]

Then again, it's possible, could the passengers themselve, have no ticket, the wrong ticket, or no money to travel either, in which they shouldn't be allowed to travel or sit down either. Probably hard to tell, unless checked themselves.

 

[AF91]

Generally speaking there are rules regarding giving up seats when travelling using a free travel pass. I've personally never seen any rules regarding this if using priv travel as its essentially just another form of railcard discount and staff making use of it are paying customers like everyone else.

You also don't know if there are good reasons for people needing to sit either.

 

[Hapana]

Very occasionally in London one sees service personnel from UK & Allied forces in uniform (normally officers) on the tube. Except for special circumstances I would always expect them to stand (along with police in uniform)

 

[matt_world2004]

Slightly OT but very poor indeed that staff - especially if uniformed/identifiable - are being expected to take their break on vehicles in passenger service (I’m assuming this is on the buses).

Bus , Tube platforms. Trains. We used to do tube platforms a lot because it was warmer in the winter when working in Waterloo during covid we we turned away from the canteen in palestra because it was for centrecom staff only

 

[Taunton]

But should a 60/70 yr old staff member vacate a seat for a 20 yr old passenger?

Yes.

There was a longstanding issue on Glasgow-Edinburgh with commuting rail staff who would board through the guards' door before the train was opened, and bag the best first class window seats, feeling it was something of a private staff club. Eventually Alan Williams wrote about it being done to him in Modern Railways, whereupon it was stamped out, but gradually crept back.

 

[londonboi]

We quite regularly have revenue protection people on this line and I’ve never seen a ticket shown, just nodded through despite a thorough inspection for everybody else. I have occasionally seen those not in uniform but clearly in ‘work clothes’ show their ID on a lanyard so I assume this is all commuting or duty travel.

I am rail staff however the TOC I use to travel to work I don’t get free travel on I have a paid for ticket. As I travel in uniform when inspectors have got on I get a nod as well but have paid for my ticket. So please don’t assume just because they get a nod they have not paid.

 

[Bluejays]

Yes.

There was a longstanding issue on Glasgow-Edinburgh with commuting rail staff who would board through the guards' door before the train was opened, and bag the best first class window seats, feeling it was something of a private staff club. Eventually Alan Williams wrote about it being done to him in Modern Railways, whereupon it was stamped out, but gradually crept back.

That's poor behaviour that needed to be stopped, very cheeky indeed. Different level to someone sitting down after a day at work though surely?

 

[185143]

Been on plenty of trains where people have been choosing to stand. Indeed I'm on one right now.

Surely no one in that circumstance would begrudge a member of staff taking a seat?

 

[Terminator]

If passengers are choosing to stand but there are still seats vacant, then it's fair game in my view.

I rarely travel for duty or pleasure, and when I commute I won't be wearing a lanyard or uniform. However, I try to avoid the busiest services and in the event a train I'm travelling on does become F&S I'll leave and get the next train instead as it's not a very pleasant environment to be in anyway. Appreciate that's not possible for everyone though.

 

[twpsaesneg]

Very occasionally in London one sees service personnel from UK & Allied forces in uniform (normally officers) on the tube. Except for special circumstances I would always expect them to stand (along with police in uniform)

Why? Is putting their life on the line for their country not enough to let them sit?

 

[66701GBRF]

Have to say, there are some very odd comments and opinions on what people think other people should do.

 

[CannonBall]

I am a frequent peak-time passenger on the Leeds-Manchester route; TPE disruption over the last year has meant that peak time services are often full and standing with First frequently declassified. One of my frustrations is the common sight of uniformed or lanyarded rail staff (albeit often not TPE staff) seated in both First and Standard while myself and other paying passengers are standing. I have never known conductors or revenue staff to ask them to move.

I’d be interested to know what rules or guidance are given to rail staff for these situations - it seems quite a bad look for them to be seated comfortably in uniform while passengers stand.

GWR would hang you out to dry if they saw staff doing this. Big no no regardless of if you're travelling on their own or any other ToC service

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2023 ==

Why? Is putting their life on the line for their country not enough to let them sit?

You should be standing for them. They get shot at or have to kill people for you to carry on thinking like that

 

[twpsaesneg]

You should be standing for them. They get shot at or have to kill people for you to carry on thinking like that

That's the point I was making to @Hapana!

 

[bramling]

Very occasionally in London one sees service personnel from UK & Allied forces in uniform (normally officers) on the tube. Except for special circumstances I would always expect them to stand (along with police in uniform)

Why would you expect that? I wouldn’t.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2023 ==

There was a longstanding issue on Glasgow-Edinburgh with commuting rail staff who would board through the guards' door before the train was opened, and bag the best first class window seats, feeling it was something of a private staff club. Eventually Alan Williams wrote about it being done to him in Modern Railways, whereupon it was stamped out, but gradually crept back.

That’s poor and certainly shouldn’t happen.

 

[43066]

Have to say, there are some very odd comments and opinions on what people think other people should do.

Why would you expect that? I wouldn’t.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2023 ==



That’s poor and certainly shouldn’t happen.

It’s a very strange thread. Apparently the opinion of some posters is that 60-70yo staff members are expected to stand up for healthy young passengers, and so are police officers and soldiers. I doubt that’s a view one would encounter much away from this forum!

I’ve certainly never come across this sort of thing causing issues in the real world.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2023 ==

Bus , Tube platforms. Trains. We used to do tube platforms a lot because it was warmer in the winter when working in Waterloo during covid we we turned away from the canteen in palestra because it was for centrecom staff only

They doesn’t sound great. Some on here would no doubt like to see you standing to make way for them!

 

[Andrew1395]

Freight companies used to pay for duty travel of train crew using passenger services to complete their diagram of work. if that still happens then staff are through the employers travelling legitimately as any other business traveller.

 

[LowLevel]

These threads always make me smile. The answer is surely common sense and not worth a 3 page discussion. The same as some worthy deciding they're going to start a thread about staff travel facilities and whether they might be being misused on occasion and declare they'll take it to the top. Nothing ever changes.

Yes, some staff sit down when perhaps they ought not to. Who knows what is going on with them though.

For me, if commuting and it's genuinely full I stand up.

If duty travel and being forced to travel for up to 3 hours passenger without any say in the matter, I'll sit. I could get off but then my train will probably be cancelled at the other end - the caveat being I'll always try and sit in a cab first and always make the seat next to me available, and I don't sit at tables, a windowless plastic wonder will do me fine.

No, I don't think soldiers should stand (though they rarely appear in public in uniform these days) and I don't object to coppers who have had their rest day cancelled to work 12 hours transporting football fans having a sit down for a bit either.

 

[Taunton]

Apparently the opinion of some posters is that 60-70yo staff members are expected to stand up for healthy young passengers,

Correct. Just like I am in one of the age groups you mention, and although not rail staff I do offer my seat, straight away, to women in the other group you mention. Always have, always will.

 

[Energy]

- Priv discount asks you to travel on quieter services and requires that normal fare paying passengers get priority over seats. This includes the Rail Staff Leisure card which is available to immediate family of the employee (on a side note there are some really cheap child fares!).

- Many TOCs provide free travel on their services and services of sister TOCs for the employee (e.g I've heard of LNWR drivers being given travel on Greater Anglia etc.), the same rules regarding seats usually apply and often standard class only.

Worth remembering that pre recent union negotiations many NR staff wouldn't have gotten any discount and would be considered normal passengers.

 

[bramling]

- Priv discount asks you to travel on quieter services and requires that normal fare paying passengers get priority over seats. This includes the Rail Staff Leisure card which is available to immediate family of the employee (on a side note there are some really cheap child fares!).

Note this doesn’t appear to apply to retired staff (nor, presumably, their dependents).

 

[Mugby]

I would hope that a fare-paying passenger wouldn't seriously expect a staff member (active or retired, on duty or not} to give up a seat if any of the other seats were occupied with luggage, bags or coats!

 

[driverd]

Most rail staff actually are bound by their terms and conditions to vacate seats, even where they have a Priv ticket: https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/d...0.0PRXw4XOKta2QUln-o9eFmsTzahC4LE_FaRphPgMCX0

Staff travellers must ensure priority is given to fare-paying passengers. They should, whenever possible, seek to travel on lightly-loaded services. When this is not possible and travel is undertaken on a crowded train, they should stand back to allow fare-paying passengers to obtain seats.

Exactly this. All staff should give up their seats without being asked. Same applies for TOC staff with a TOC pass - it's usually in the first week of induction training. Its a really bad look to be sat there in uniform with paying customers having to stand - I feel it represents both me and the brand awfully so I generally don't do it (unless, for instance its a DBC on train, in which case, I'd have no issue - though these are very rare and theres only a handful of companies that permit it).

Anyway, short and simple answer - no, staff shouldn't do this. See above quote for the why bit.

 

[L401CJF]

I agree that staff shouldn't be taking seats if the service is busy if travelling for free. I know where I work conditions of staff travel state we must vacate seats for paying customers.

On the other hand I have been passing on multiple services during shifts where I've boarded and found a few standing, but found a seat. I said "there's some seats down here if you want to sit" to be told no they're fine standing and so I've then sat down myself!

A lot of our own staff if passing on a service on duty generally sit in the back cab with the guard if it's busy.

 

[Florence Rox]

On the tube, police always stand even if the train is nearly empty