Russia invades Ukraine

[Trackman]

The Russian general who is in second-in-command of the army is reported to have known about the rebellion beforehand has gone missing.
Probably got lost on the way back from the shops or took a wrong turn or something.

From Sky news

Russia-Ukraine war latest: General who knew about Wagner coup 'missing'; 'local resident' helped missile attack

The "missing" general apparently had advanced knowledge of the Wagner rebellion and has not been seen since the mutiny unfolded at the weekend. Meanwhile, a man has been arrested over a missile attack on a pizzeria that killed at least 11 people in the eastern city of Kramatorsk.

news.sky.com

Russian general 'missing' since Wagner Group rebellion​

A top Russian general who reportedly had advanced knowledge of the Wagner rebellion has not been seen since the armed mutiny unfolded on Saturday.
Sergei "Armageddon" Surovikin is second-in-command of the Russian army and has known links to Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin.
He was replaced as the top commander earlier this year but retained influence in running war operations.

Russian Telegram channel Rybar has suggested he is being held under interrogation.
"Surovikin has not been seen since Saturday - it is not known for certain where General Armageddon is located. There is a version that he is under interrogation," it reported.
US intelligence had previously said Mr Surovikin knew about Prigozhin's plans to rebel against Russia's military leadership, according to the New York Times.
"We said yesterday keep an eye on him because he must be having a fairly difficult time," our defence and security analyst Michael Clarke said.
"What happens to this man will be very interesting. He hasn't appeared since he made a statement on Saturday urging the Wagner people to go back to the units and behave themselves."
Before launching the mutiny, Prigozhin had raged against both Sergei Shoigu, the Russian defence minister, and Valery Gerasimov, chief of the general staff, blaming them for failures in Ukraine and the army's lack of support for Wagner fighters.
Mr Gerasimov has also not been since Saturday, Clarke added, and neither has Russia's deputy security council chief Dmitry Medvedev.
Mr Medvedev's personal aircraft went to Oman over the weekend and hasn't come back, he said.

"Cup of tea sir."

Well he cant accidentality fall out of any windows at least.

 

[Pete_uk]

ATACMS might be heading to Ukraine soonish.

That will kive 'em something to chew on

 

[brad465]

BBC reporting that, despite everything that's recently happened, Wagner are still recruiting:

Wagner still recruiting despite mutiny, BBC finds

The BBC called more than a dozen Russian recruitment centres and was told it's business as usual.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Wagner Group is still recruiting fighters across Russia, days after staging a mutiny that led Vladimir Putin to raise fears of civil war.
Using a Russian phone number, we called more than a dozen recruitment centres saying, if asked, that we were inquiring on behalf of a brother.
All those who replied confirmed that it was business as usual.
From Kaliningrad in the west to Krasnodar in the south, no-one believed the group was being disbanded.
In the Arctic city of Murmansk, a woman at the Viking sports club confirmed that she was still signing up fighters for Ukraine.
"That's where we are recruiting for, yes. If someone wants to go, they just have to call me and we'll set a day."
Wagner's long list of contact points are mostly based at fight clubs, including martial arts schools and boxing clubs.
Several people who picked up the phone stressed that new members were signing contracts with the mercenary group itself, not the Russian defence ministry.

"It's absolutely nothing to do with the defence ministry," a man at the Sparta sports club in Volgograd was adamant. "Nothing has stopped, we're still recruiting."
The demand for the mercenaries to transfer to the defence ministry, thus bringing the Wagner Group and its boss Yevgeny Prigozhin to heel, was at the root of the fierce feud that exploded into last weekend's armed uprising.
It was the biggest challenge to President Putin's authority in his more than 20-year rule, despite the Kremlin's scrambling ever since to redefine his response as strong and decisive.
And yet the criminal case against the mutineers has been dropped, in a country where multiple opposition activists are serving long prison sentences just for speaking out against Russia's war on Ukraine.

There are suggestions this is not necessarily for Ukraine attack purposes, but to prepare for potential civil war in Russia. Either way it's not pretty from an outsider's perspective.

 

[gingerheid]

BBC reporting that, despite everything that's recently happened, Wagner are still recruiting:

Wagner still recruiting despite mutiny, BBC finds

The BBC called more than a dozen Russian recruitment centres and was told it's business as usual.

www.bbc.co.uk

There are suggestions this is not necessarily for Ukraine attack purposes, but to prepare for potential civil war in Russia. Either way it's not pretty from an outsider's perspective.

If Wagner are recruiting in Russia then it can only be with Russia's blessing. If this is the case then I wonder about the extent to which all this has been a ruse / diversion.

 

[oxfordray1]

Is anyone else thoroughly confused by all of this or is it just me?

 

[87electric]

Is anyone else thoroughly confused by all of this or is it just me?

If you mean that you are confused by the BBC, then dump the channel. Go find news elsewhere. It might be healthier.

 

[DustyBin]

If Wagner are recruiting in Russia then it can only be with Russia's blessing. If this is the case then I wonder about the extent to which all this has been a ruse / diversion.

Personally I don't buy this, I think it was a failed mutiny (even if never intended to be a full blown coup).

Putting two and two together (and probably making five!) I think it's possible that Surovikin was supposed to join Wagner, was detained before he had chance, and that's what scuppered Prigozhin. That's not to say family members weren't threatened as well, but that may have been less of a concern with a significant part of the military on side, hence the apparent lack of precautions in this regard. There was that rather strange video of Surovikin calling for Wagner to call the whole thing off early on where he looked and sounded like a hostage reading from a script as well....

Again, this is just one plausible theory of many!

Is anyone else thoroughly confused by all of this or is it just me?

No it's not just you, as per above!

 

[156421]

If you mean that you are confused by the BBC, then dump the channel. Go find news elsewhere. It might be healthier.

Not to mention more accurate.

 

[edwin_m]

Is anyone else thoroughly confused by all of this or is it just me?

There are only a handful of people who have anything like the full picture, and they either can't tell or won't. Rather like various things that went on in the USSR that we didn't find out about until after it collapsed.

If you mean that you are confused by the BBC, then dump the channel. Go find news elsewhere. It might be healthier.

OK, I'll re-tune to RT...

 

[Annetts key]

Personally I don't buy this, I think it was a failed mutiny (even if never intended to be a full blown coup).

Putting two and two together (and probably making five!) I think it's possible that Surovikin was supposed to join Wagner, was detained before he had chance, and that's what scuppered Prigozhin. That's not to say family members weren't threatened as well, but that may have been less of a concern with a significant part of the military on side, hence the apparent lack of precautions in this regard. There was that rather strange video of Surovikin calling for Wagner to call the whole thing off early on where he looked and sounded like a hostage reading from a script as well....

Again, this is just one plausible theory of many!

Two points:

Putin admitted that the Russian state/government fully funded Wagner (including providing military equipment). Whereas, previously he said that Wagner was nothing to do with the Russian state…

That clip of the Russian general, is that the one where you can see a rifle/machine gun that he is holding onto? If he was being forced to say stuff, would he really be allowed to have a gun?

Some deal must have been made. But unless Prigozhin reveals details, we are not going to find out what…

 

[brad465]

Not to mention more accurate.

The BBC tends to be accurate in what it reports on this war, however it's main problems are that it's slow to react and more limited in what it provides; I've usually found the Financial Times better at all this, despite not being the sort of outlet you'd expect to focus on it (while I'm a subscriber, I believe a lot of what they report on this subject is free to read). Even if the BBC reporting faster led to some disclaimer notes for information that couldn't be 100% verified, it would be better than how it currently reports this.

On just about every other area though, BBC journalism is badly lacking, and seems to take impartiality too far by presenting false equivalences and not focusing on facts as much, but that's another story.

 

[jon0844]

The BBC, along with other major news agencies, agreed a long time ago to wait until certain facts were verified before reporting - to stop examples of death tolls going down over time and other inaccuracies through unconfirmed reports.

The problem is that in a race to be first, not everyone will do that. If someone else goes early on something and get it right, the BBC looks bad (or accused of covering up) and if someone else gets it wrong, they often remove a post or never mention something again.

GB News has done this a few times with flagrant speculation. On Twitter, it's even worse. Sometimes deliberately misleading, sometimes well intentioned by misinformed, and sometimes spot on accurate because it's first-hand.

I am not sure how we can ensure the situation in Russia is accurately reported, especially when there's every reason to deflect and mislead from all sides.

 

[brad465]

The BBC, along with other major news agencies, agreed a long time ago to wait until certain facts were verified before reporting - to stop examples of death tolls going down over time and other inaccuracies through unconfirmed reports.

The problem is that in a race to be first, not everyone will do that. If someone else goes early on something and get it right, the BBC looks bad (or accused of covering up) and if someone else gets it wrong, they often remove a post or never mention something again.

GB News has done this a few times with flagrant speculation. On Twitter, it's even worse. Sometimes deliberately misleading, sometimes well intentioned by misinformed, and sometimes spot on accurate because it's first-hand.

I am not sure how we can ensure the situation in Russia is accurately reported, especially when there's every reason to deflect and mislead from all sides.

An example I forgot to mention above about their slow speed was reporting the recent mutiny/coup: while they were okay speed-wise reporting Prigozhin's grievances stated earlier that day, Twitter and other outlets were posting videos, statements, etc., of the mutiny in action for a good 2-3 hours before the BBC did. Had they at least said "there are reports of a coup/mutiny by Wagner in Russia, according to x, y and z, we can't confirm this yet but we will bring you up to speed once we can confirm", they'd have handled it better.

 

[ainsworth74]

That clip of the Russian general, is that the one where you can see a rifle/machine gun that he is holding onto? If he was being forced to say stuff, would he really be allowed to have a gun?

How do you know it was loaded?

 

[Annetts key]

How do you know it was loaded?

Obviously, that’s difficult to know just from watching the video. But it’s still odd that a person in that position feels the need to have a gun on their person.

 

[DustyBin]

Obviously, that’s difficult to know just from watching the video. But it’s still odd that a person in that position feels the need to have a gun on their person.

It was very odd, that’s the point!

Again though, we just don’t know what’s really going on.

 

[Russel]

Seeing a few Twitter posts regarding Russians slowly withdrawing from ZNPP, not sure if this is a good thing or something to be concerned about.

 

[brad465]

There's a widely believed rumour that Putin has at least one body double for public appearances, something the BBC doesn't mention in this article, even if to debunk the rumour:

Deciphering Vladimir Putin's many appearances since mutiny

The Russian president has popped up on TV screens multiple times since last weekend's dramatic events - but to what end?

www.bbc.co.uk

Where's Vladimir Putin? That's what we were wondering most of Monday - two days after a dramatic insurrection by the Wagner Group that saw a convoy of mercenary fighters headed to Moscow.
A spokesman for Mr Putin announced a deal to end the Wagner mutiny late on Saturday. But when would the president himself comment on the controversial agreement?
It was controversial because the Wagner mercenaries had rebelled, seized military sites (with apparent ease) and then marched on Moscow; Russian air force pilots had been killed in the mutiny. Yet the Kremlin had agreed not to prosecute Wagner fighters or their leader Yevgeny Prigozhin in return for calling off the uprising.
Over the last week, President Putin has made a series of unusual public appearances - all televised - in an apparent attempt to steady the ship.

Continued...

 

[Pete_uk]

Finland is giving out potassium iodine pills to pregnant women and young children.

This prevents the build up / uptake of radioactive material.

Just incase...

 

[Ediswan]

Finland is giving out potassium iodine pills to pregnant women and young children.

This prevents the build up / uptake of radioactive material.

Specifically, radioactive iodine (I-131).

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/emergencies/ki.htm

Potassium iodide (KI) is a type of iodine that is not radioactive and can be used to help block one type of radioactive material, radioactive iodine (I-131), from being absorbed by the thyroid.

 

[Springs Branch]

Specifically, radioactive iodine (I-131).

What would be really handy right now, for a niche but lucrative market, would be a pill protecting against polonium-210.

By the way, I feel sorry for Prigozhin's personal security / food taster guy at the moment.
Not only does he have to taste his morning cuppa, he also needs to wear Yevgeny's fresh underpants for the first half-hour every day to check for Novichok.

Anyhow, I'm off to the Patent Office now to register my latest invention - a teapot / Geiger counter combo.

 

[wilbers]

What would be really handy right now, for a niche but lucrative market, would be a pill protecting against polonium-210.

By the way, I feel sorry for Prigozhin's personal security / food taster guy at the moment.
Not only does he have to taste his morning cuppa, he also needs to wear Yevgeny's fresh underpants for the first half-hour every day to check for Novichok.

Anyhow, I'm off to the Patent Office now to register my latest invention - a teapot / Geiger counter combo.

They don't work like that. Potassium iodide pills stops absorbtion stops the 131 isotope getting retained in the thyroid gland so its excreted away. All the other isotopes of Polonium-210 are radioactive, and all have a half-life of less than 3 minutes so getting close to impossible to even have a sample of any of those in a lab.

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder if the Russians will attempt to spin this story as us smuggling fighter aircraft into Ukraine:

The rusting remains of eight British Hurricane fighter planes dating back to World War Two have been found buried in a forest in Ukraine.
The aircraft were sent to the Soviet Union by Britain after Nazi Germany invaded the country in 1941.
They were part of a package of allied military support for the USSR, paid for by the United States under the so-called Lend-Lease scheme.
Similar legislation is being used by the US government today to send military aid to Ukraine as it seeks to expel Russian forces from its country.

Ukraine finds British WW2 Hurricane planes outside Kyiv

London sent the Hawker Hurricanes to the Soviet Union to help them fight against Nazi Germany.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Pete_uk]

Russian channels claim that tomorrow evening, Ukraine will launch a missile and drone attack on the Zaporizhzia Nuclear Power Plant. While simultaneously dropping munition from an aircraft filled with radioactive material. The backup plan is a Tochka-U filled with radiactive substances.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Russian channels claim that tomorrow evening, Ukraine will launch a missile and drone attack on the Zaporizhzia Nuclear Power Plant. While simultaneously dropping munition from an aircraft filled with radioactive material. The backup plan is a Tochka-U filled with radiactive substances.

So we can take it that Russia will in fact do that. Ouch.

 

[adc82140]

Russian channels claim that tomorrow evening, Ukraine will launch a missile and drone attack on the Zaporizhzia Nuclear Power Plant. While simultaneously dropping munition from an aircraft filled with radioactive material. The backup plan is a Tochka-U filled with radiactive substances.

What's the source? Tass and RT are not reporting this....

 

[ainsworth74]

What's the source? Tass and RT are not reporting this....

I believe "channels" in this case refers to Telegram channels rather than TV.

 

[wilbers]

Just been on newsnight; reports of Russia planning something and Ukraine wanting to get the IAEA involved to stop it.

BBC Two - Newsnight, Labour Splits Row Reignited

Labour’s most senior socialist MP on an attempt to 'destroy the left' of the party.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[kristiang85]

I just can't see how either side would win from doing something to the ZNPP. But, at the same time, we all said the same about the dam as both sides were saying the other was plotting to destroy that, and it happened....

It's all quite worrying on the context of this war, but honestly this is probably a step too far. Anyway, nuclear power plants are designed to survive bombs. The only way this is going up is if there is mechanical sabotage alongside it, and that would point firmly to the Russians. So again I can't see them doing it.

 

[DustyBin]

I just can't see how either side would win from doing something to the ZNPP. But, at the same time, we all said the same about the dam as both sides were saying the other was plotting to destroy that, and it happened....

It's all quite worrying on the context of this war, but honestly this is probably a step too far. Anyway, nuclear power plants are designed to survive bombs. The only way this is going up is if there is mechanical sabotage alongside it, and that would point firmly to the Russians. So again I can't see them doing it.

The question is whether destroying (or rather severely damaging) the plant = nuclear disaster. I’m led to believe that it doesn’t, which gives the Russians the option of doing something (stupid).

Having said that, these are the same idiots that managed to irradiate themselves around Chernobyl last year so nothing would surprise me, unfortunately.