South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Western 52]

And of course any late running train off the Coryton line delays the next one.

And Rhymney line trains too as the unit has to wait on the main line for the other train to leave the branch.

 

[AdamWW]

Not quite true though, is it? Half the services coming down from the Llandaff direction will continue to Central, and all of those from the Rhymney and Coryton lines. So somewhat less than half, and on the Taff Vale branches the frequency of through trains to Central will be the same as now, ie 2ph.

Indeed. There will be more services coming from the Valleys and not all of those will go to Central but there I don't think there will be much change in the number of trains continuing south from Queen Street.

It's true that the service patterns are changing so some people who currently have through trains will have to change at Central or Queen Street. But others will gain through services.

 

[Signal_Box]

? Don't understand.


Not quite true though, is it? Half the services coming down from the Llandaff direction will continue to Central, and all of those from the Rhymney and Coryton lines. So somewhat less than half, and on the Taff Vale branches the frequency of through trains to Central will be the same as now, ie 2ph.

Billions? Really, that's somewhat of an exaggeration when you say earlier in the same sentence that the whole project is less than 1Bn.

And in terms of the over-run, yes it's unfortunate, but earlier electrification projects (GWML, Edinburgh-Glasgow, etc) over-ran substantially on both time and budget, and didn't have the pandemic and spiralling construction inflation to deal with in the way that this one has.

Auto correct - millions and millions

 

[yorkie]

Can we stick to updates regarding what is actually happening with South West Metro please.

Anything else can be discussed in alternative threads; thanks

 

[markymark2000]

Anyone know how far advanced the OHLE is on the Merthyr and Aberdare lines please? TfW seem to be saying that it's complete and energised from Cardiff to Ponty and they've been using it to test tram trains (398s) between Taffs Well depot and Radyr. I take it that if the Merthyr and Aberdare resignalling is complete that the new loops must be? Thanks

I know for certain that as of a few weeks ago, at Treforrest station there was no poles up at all, let alone wires.

 

[John R]

I may be wrong but I seem to recall that the plan is for the wiring to stop just to the south of the station.

 

[K.o.R]

I may be wrong but I seem to recall that the plan is for the wiring to stop just to the south of the station.

That appears to be the situation right now. I've given up trying to figure out the reasoning behind these ridiculous decisions. There's no masts at Ponty right now, though there does appear to be a feeder station gantry on one of the bridges just north of the station. That's it.

 

[Last Hurrah]

But then you can only have a 10 minute turnaround at Penarth, compared to the 15-20 minutes if you have two platforms there (split between the two platforms). The longer turnaround is very important when you consider half the trains will be going to Coryton where they will have a much shorter turnaround, there won't be the capacity for any service recovery length dwells at anywhere else on the route.

They already run 4 trains an hour to Penarth with existing single line section - on occasions, trains are held at Cogan Jct signal, awaiting returning Penarth service to clear single line

Installing a loop adds resilience, question is, where it should be ? For me, siting it either side Dingle Road Stn will be a better location - trackbed already exists, as does the old platform overgrown with vegetation - can still hold trains here

The distance between Dingle Road Stn & Penarth Stn is circa half a mile (?) siting a new loop nearer to Penarth along with new platform gives a marginal difference in turnaround time (?)

On cost alone, constructing new platform in a cutting, adjoining station overbridge, would be more expensive

 

[MikePJ]

That appears to be the situation right now. I've given up trying to figure out the reasoning behind these ridiculous decisions. There's no masts at Ponty right now, though there does appear to be a feeder station gantry on one of the bridges just north of the station. That's it.

Here’s the map showing where the wires will go. Blue means live wires. Yellow means wires that are earthed (so the train doesn’t lower its pantograph, but does run on batteries), and black means no wires at all. The scheme is designed to keep construction cost down, by avoiding wiring expensive sections like listed buildings (Pontypridd station), junctions (ditto), viaducts and tunnels.

 

[Dai Corner]

They already run 4 trains an hour to Penarth with existing single line section - on occasions, trains are held at Cogan Jct signal, awaiting returning Penarth service to clear single line

Installing a loop adds resilience, question is, where it should be ? For me, siting it either side Dingle Road Stn will be a better location - trackbed already exists, as does the old platform overgrown with vegetation - can still hold trains here

The distance between Dingle Road Stn & Penarth Stn is circa half a mile (?) siting a new loop nearer to Penarth along with new platform gives a marginal difference in turnaround time (?)

On cost alone, constructing new platform in a cutting, adjoining station overbridge, would be more expensive

A right time arrival at Penarth Arrival Platform looks better in the stats than one at Dingle Road followed by a late one at Penarth. Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age?

 

[Envoy]

Here is the latest map from Prof. Mark Barry who advises the Welsh Government on the South Wales Metro project:>

Cardiff Metro update for LRTA members - The Light Rail Transit Association

Last Friday (14 April) over 30 members of the Light Rail Transit Association gathered in Cardiff for their annual member’s day. The prime purpose was tohear about the progress of and future plans for the Cardiff Metro project.Members also used the Cardiff rail network to visit physical works at...

www.lrta.org

Chair of the Light Rail Transit Association, Paul Rowen, said “It is great to see
the Welsh Government showing such foresight in developing an integrated
transport system along the lines first put forward by Professor Barry. He is a
prophet they should be very proud of. Wales could do much more if
Westminster devolved transport to the Welsh Government.”

 

[louis97]

They already run 4 trains an hour to Penarth with existing single line section - on occasions, trains are held at Cogan Jct signal, awaiting returning Penarth service to clear single line

Installing a loop adds resilience, question is, where it should be ? For me, siting it either side Dingle Road Stn will be a better location - trackbed already exists, as does the old platform overgrown with vegetation - can still hold trains here

The distance between Dingle Road Stn & Penarth Stn is circa half a mile (?) siting a new loop nearer to Penarth along with new platform gives a marginal difference in turnaround time (?)

On cost alone, constructing new platform in a cutting, adjoining station overbridge, would be more expensive

The benefit isn't the loop at Penarth, it is having the extra platform so you can have two trains there at once and therefore trains can have longer at Penarth. If you only have one platform at Penarth, and a loop at Dingle Road, you can only ever have a 10 minute turnaround as with trains every 15 minutes you have to get back to Dingle Road in 14 minutes, 2 minute runtime each way (this is a little slack) = 10 minutes turnaround. By having two platforms at Penarth the arriving train does not have to form the next departure in the timetable, it can step back a departure. Trains can arrive at Penarth a few minutes before the train already there is booked to depart, then move over to the departure platform once it has departed, therefore 15-20 minutes dwell split between the two platforms.

 

[Cowley]

It seems like there was quite a bit of duplication going on with at least two (maybe even three) threads all discussing the same things. It’s now all in one place hopefully, so please keep all the South Wales metro construction updates and discussions here.

Thanks everyone

 

[Envoy]

Far better to get the second platform at Penarth to be up and running (closed by Beeching). That disused platform is actually on the more favourable east side for visitors heading for the town centre o&the path by the gallery that leads down to the Esplanade. A barrow crossing would also be helpful for pedestrians to easily walk across to whichever platform the next train would depart from.

The path that links to the old railway trail also needs improvement and signposting. Signposting at Penarth station for pedestrians is very poor.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Far better to get the second platform at Penarth to be up and running (closed by Beeching). That disused platform is actually on the more favourable east side for visitors heading for the town centre o&the path by the gallery that leads down to the Esplanade. A barrow crossing would also be helpful for pedestrians to easily walk across to whichever platform the next train would depart from.

The path that links to the old railway trail also needs improvement and signposting. Signposting at Penarth station for pedestrians is very poor.

The old platform has been built on, so the building would need to be acquired and demolished, I think it's an 80s office building from memory. The track bed is still extant should there be any extension to the railway in future.

 

[AdamWW]

A barrow crossing would also be helpful for pedestrians to easily walk across to whichever platform the next train would depart from.

I would be surprised to see that happen on a heavy rail route.

 

[MikePJ]

The old platform has been built on, so the building would need to be acquired and demolished, I think it's an 80s office building from memory. The track bed is still extant should there be any extension to the railway in future.

It’s currently Penarth’s JobCentre, and hosts a couple of other businesses too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2023 ==

A while back I found a nice design study on the website of one of the big civil engineering firms showing how they’re going to fit a second platform in at Penarth by staggering the platforms. I can’t find it again now but here’s a link to a TfL FoI response confirming that staggered platforms are the plan.

 

[Envoy]

I would be surprised to see that happen on a heavy rail route.

One exists on the Coryton branch line in Cardiff. I actually walked across one last week on a mainline - public footpath but little used. At Penarth, being as the trains terminate, the trains need not even cross a new barrow crossing.

 

[AdamWW]

One exists on the Coryton branch line in Cardiff. I actually walked across one last week on a mainline - public footpath but little used. At Penarth, being as the trains terminate, the trains need not even cross a new barrow crossing.

I meant I can't see a new crossing being approved other than on a "light rail" line-of-sight section.

But we are probably getting a bit too far from "updates" with this.

 

[CardiffKid]

I’m not sure there’s a need for one in any case. Trains will arrive at the new arrivals platform, passengers will exit, then the train will move either immediately or within say ten minutes to the current platform before departing back to Cardiff.

Only in serious disruption would a train depart from the new platform, and in this case you’d know that disruption is happening and most people would be able to get over there.

 

[5021]

An arrivals platform LoL - is this a new concept from a consultant ?

Aberdare is having one too - already appears as Aberdare Platform 2 in Realtime Trains and has its own TIPLOC code . It may have been constructed during the latest blockade??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2023 ==

That appears to be the situation right now. I've given up trying to figure out the reasoning behind these ridiculous decisions. There's no masts at Ponty right now, though there does appear to be a feeder station gantry on one of the bridges just north of the station. That's it.

We do know that the wiring is to be "discontinuous" where gauging would otherwise be a problem and I think Ponty station area might be excluded because of its listed status - wiring installation would require some cutting back or modification of the canopies. Just hope these units have got reliable batteries.

 

[takno]

Aberdare is having one too - already appears as Aberdare Platform 2 in Realtime Trains and has its own TIPLOC code . It may have been constructed during the latest blockade??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2023 ==


We do know that the wiring is to be "discontinuous" where gauging would otherwise be a problem and I think Ponty station area might be excluded because of its listed status - wiring installation would require some cutting back or modification of the canopies. Just hope these units have got reliable batteries.

The one at Aberdare isn't even signalled to allow departures. A new Tiploc makes sense because it allows you to timetable the platform-to-platform moves without it effectively being a non-move. Other places achieve this by having a reversing siding with its own tiploc, but there's no reversing siding to use here.

I'm told the Aberdare platform is not in use until next year anyway, but it looks like the line and signalling are in place for it

 

[Geeves]

That map is certainly interesting. I am assuming here that their will be some sort of ADD (auto pan drop) or automatic power change over as that's a hell of a lot of times for the driver to remember to swap power and pan down.

Also the depot at Taff's Well is wired but the line outside is not? Interesting

 

[MikePJ]

That map is certainly interesting. I am assuming here that their will be some sort of ADD (auto pan drop) or automatic power change over as that's a hell of a lot of times for the driver to remember to swap power and pan down.

Yes - there's a balise system that tells the train to change mode.

 

[Geeves]

Good stuff. Thanks Mike!

 

[MikePJ]

I snapped a few pictures of the Bay branch this morning. The trains are running at the moment so the level of construction activity is lower than during the blockade. However (not pictured), there is also a lot of ground clearance going on around the new Butetown station site, and I also glimpsed the beginnings of the new second track formation being laid near Queen St. I’ll try and get a picture of that tomorrow if I can.

 

[Last Hurrah]

Far better to get the second platform at Penarth to be up and running (closed by Beeching). That disused platform is actually on the more favourable east side for visitors heading for the town centre o&the path by the gallery that leads down to the Esplanade. A barrow crossing would also be helpful for pedestrians to easily walk across to whichever platform the next train would depart from.

The path that links to the old railway trail also needs improvement and signposting. Signposting at Penarth station for pedestrians is very poor.

Agree that’s a far better solution, if second platform at Penarth sited facing current platform - unfortunately the old station building that was constructed in a similar style to the adjoining Railway Pub Hotel was demolished, then replaced by a functionally styled Job Centre

As no chance of having listed building status, demolish the Job Centre building, relocate it, then restore new platform to its rightful position

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jun 2023 ==

The benefit isn't the loop at Penarth, it is having the extra platform so you can have two trains there at once and therefore trains can have longer at Penarth. If you only have one platform at Penarth, and a loop at Dingle Road, you can only ever have a 10 minute turnaround as with trains every 15 minutes you have to get back to Dingle Road in 14 minutes, 2 minute runtime each way (this is a little slack) = 10 minutes turnaround. By having two platforms at Penarth the arriving train does not have to form the next departure in the timetable, it can step back a departure. Trains can arrive at Penarth a few minutes before the train already there is booked to depart, then move over to the departure platform once it has departed, therefore 15-20 minutes dwell split between the two platforms.

On this basis, Ebbw Vale Town station at the end of a single line section, would also benefit from a second platform if the goal of 4 trains an hour - 2 to Cardiff alternating with 2 to Newport was to be achieved

 

[louis97]

On this basis, Ebbw Vale Town station at the end of a single line section, would also benefit from a second platform if the goal of 4 trains an hour - 2 to Cardiff alternating with 2 to Newport was to be achieved

Yes it would, the timetable is going to be very constrained requiring to fit into slots on both the main line and the two single track sections.

 

[RyanMorgan]

Some photos taken on the Aberdare line on the 30th May 2023, between Mountain Ash and Penrhiwceiber.

 

[5021]

Excellent Ryan, many thanks! Would you (and the Forum administrator) be happy for me to submit some of these for possible publication in the BLS newsletter please? It's been very short of first hand reports as to actual progress with the Metro "transformation" work and largely relying on infrastructure notices and TfW press releases. They would be duly acknowledged but no repro fees unfortunately