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Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Bus News

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m79900

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It's because they seem to spend all their time and money on building their image, with high spec interiors and different liveries. They should focus on actually keeping buses on the road rather than if a body panel is the wrong colour, or the seats aren't nice looking enough.
 
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Mwanesh

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Seems to now be a valid excuse, blaming the fact that there is a parts shortage, or shortage of engineers.

Personally I think any company that cosistantly fails to operate scheduled services should have government subsidies reduced.
There is actually a parts shortage. The only parts supplier who seem unaffected is Cummins due to them being based here in the UK. Most manufacturers are suffering from supplier issues
Do bus operators get consulted when local authorities decide whether to offer a licence to a major event? (In an ideal world, someone like Transport Focus would also be consulted, and make appropriate representations - but as far as I can tell, they mostly just write things down and put them in filing cabinets).

Modest delays to those not attending an event must be considered unavoidable collateral damage, I guess - and it is reasonable to expect people to plan journeys to accommodate a bit of delay. But how much delay is it reasonable to expect people to cope with? Nobody times their journey, even to an exam, hospital appointment, wedding, funeral, or flight to accommodate a delay of four or five hours.

At some point, surely someone should say No to licensing of an event with arrangements that can reasonably be anticipated to see innocent people delayed for several hours.
Cardiff and Newport around our neck of the woods are generally good at events information. Cardiff always tell operators in advance due to bus stop changes. It once took me 4 hours from the Severn bridge to Cardiff.
 

43055

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The changes from Derbyshire BSIP trickling through. From next Sunday the Ilkeston Flyer will run every 30 mins Monday to Saturday evenings and the My15 will run up to every 30 mins to the Airport. Former H1 Versa 829 has been rebranded for the My15.

1st July will see a new 'Peak Sightseer' open top service from Stagecoach

10th July will see the return of hourly Sunday service on the Transpeak (note departure times have changed every day) and 3 Diamond services around Derby combined to create a new circular service.

From Sunday 25 June 2023​

Trent Barton:

  • Ilkeston Flyer: improved evening service funded by the Council’s Bus Service Improvement Plan, boosting the service to half-hourly on Mondays to Saturdays. Also a change to the first journey into Derby to provide better connections to Nottingham for customers travelling from Kirk Hallam.
  • My15: increased frequency to half-hourly through to East Midlands Airport with an altered route in Castle Donnington to provide better connection for the new development in the area on Mondays to Saturdays and new Sunday daytime service between Ilkeston and Old Sawley to better mirror the Monday to Saturday service. Improvements are funded by the Council’s Bus Service Improvement Plan and other stakeholders.

From Saturday 1 July 2023​

Stagecoach Chesterfield:

  • New service PS (Peak Sightseer): This will operate daily until 30 September, then weekends until 24 December providing a half hourly clockwise circular service via Chatsworth House, Baslow, Calver, Bakewell and Ashford in the Water with two morning links from Chesterfield and two return journeys to Chesterfield in the early evening. Service is partly funded by the Council’s Bus Service Improvement Plan.

From Monday 10 July 2023​

High Peak Buses

  • service 185: revised times to/from Dove Holes for early and late journeys
  • Transpeak: revised timetable and Sunday frequency improved to hourly
Diamond Bus

  • service 70: will be revised and improved to include services 73 and V3 and will be numbered 70 and 70A. These will be circular services, 70 operating Derby – Barrow – Aston – Derby, while 70A will operate in the reverse direction. The improvements are funded by the Council’s Bus Service Improvement Plan
  • services 70 and V3: replaced by services 70 and 70A
 

Russel

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Looking forward to the Peak Sightseer, let's hope it's less chaotic that Hulleys attempt.

Do we know what Stagecoach plan to use?
 

derbybusdepot

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Looking forward to the Peak Sightseer, let's hope it's less chaotic that Hulleys attempt.

Do we know what Stagecoach plan to use?
And what the fares will be. Wayfarer, and conc passes will not be valid, and £2 fares will not apply.
 

Russel

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And what the fares will be. Wayfarer, and conc passes will not be valid, and £2 fares will not apply.

Not sure how I feel about BSIP funding going towards this then if ENCS passes aren't valid and the £2 cap doesn't apply, it doesn't sit right with me.
 

Deerfold

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Not sure how I feel about BSIP funding going towards this then if ENCS passes aren't valid and the £2 cap doesn't apply, it doesn't sit right with me.
It does seem odd to subsidise a service that will be more expensive than other local buses for everyone - and not valid on the only ticket otherwise valid throughout the county.

If the argument is it's for sightseeing, why is it being subsidised...
 

cnjb8

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Looking forward to the Peak Sightseer, let's hope it's less chaotic that Hulleys attempt.

Do we know what Stagecoach plan to use?
Open-top Trident 18467 was transferred to Chesterfield from Stagecoach East Midlands a few months ago, where it was used as a santa bus.
 

cnjb8

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What's a santa bus?
 

Russel

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It does seem odd to subsidise a service that will be more expensive than other local buses for everyone - and not valid on the only ticket otherwise valid throughout the county.

If the argument is it's for sightseeing, why is it being subsidised...

There are plenty of rural services serving the Peak District that could do with some cash to run more frequent or later services, yet money is going on a sightseeing tour, it's wrong in m view.

I know there is the argument that an open top service will attract tourism, but the Peak District is not in any way short of tourists.
 

station_road

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There are plenty of rural services serving the Peak District that could do with some cash to run more frequent or later services, yet money is going on a sightseeing tour, it's wrong in m view.

I know there is the argument that an open top service will attract tourism, but the Peak District is not in any way short of tourists.
And most of those tourists drive - why shouldn't BSIP funding be used to try to reduce road congestion?
 

Deerfold

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There are plenty of rural services serving the Peak District that could do with some cash to run more frequent or later services, yet money is going on a sightseeing tour, it's wrong in m view.

I know there is the argument that an open top service will attract tourism, but the Peak District is not in any way short of tourists.
It would be a great way to encourage people not to bring their cars - get a Wayfarer there and back and use it on the sightseeing tour, too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

And most of those tourists drive - why shouldn't BSIP funding be used to try to reduce road congestion?
And all the better if you could use the same ticket to arrive, leave and use this service.
 

Simon75

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Better services between Leek and Buxton would help. Also if D&G reverted to a X16 Hanley-Leek- Buxton link would be better, especially connecting in Buxton with services there
 

Russel

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And most of those tourists drive - why shouldn't BSIP funding be used to try to reduce road congestion?

It would be a great way to encourage people not to bring their cars - get a Wayfarer there and back and use it on the sightseeing tour, too.

And all the better if you could use the same ticket to arrive, leave and use this service.

These ideas are great in theory, but in reality, not so much.

I visited Bakewell on Saturday, from my house to Bakewell is a 1hr 20min drive, it cost me no more than £20 in petrol and £6 in parking,

If I was to park outside of the Peak District National Park and catch the bus into Bakewell, I could have done it from Derby, Chesterfield or Sheffield, but I'm still going to have to pay for parking and petrol, on top of that I'd have to pay for bus tickets for myself, partner and child, I'd also have to wait around for a bus that may or may not turn up or be running late and is likely to add at least an hour to my journey both ways.

What part of this is meant to be tempting me out of my car?
 

station_road

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These ideas are great in theory, but in reality, not so much.

I visited Bakewell on Saturday, from my house to Bakewell is a 1hr 20min drive, it cost me no more than £20 in petrol and £6 in parking,

If I was to park outside of the Peak District National Park and catch the bus into Bakewell, I could have done it from Derby, Chesterfield or Sheffield, but I'm still going to have to pay for parking and petrol, on top of that I'd have to pay for bus tickets for myself, partner and child, I'd also have to wait around for a bus that may or may not turn up or be running late and is likely to add at least an hour to my journey both ways.

What part of this is meant to be tempting me out of my car?
Earlier you seemed to be asking for more frequent services on other routes, yet this post suggests that wouldn't matter as you are more concerned about cost, reliability and extra journey times of using buses so I'm not really sure what would tempt you out of your car?
 
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...

What part of this is meant to be tempting me out of my car?
You have so neatly summed up the big challenge of achieving Modal Shift in rural areas.

Anyone who is already has use of a car is already paying the (heavy) fixed costs - interest lost, age-based depreciation, time-based servicing, insurance.

To tempt them to leave that vehicle at home and take public transport instead, then the combination of cost, convenience and experience needs to be better than if they use the car.

That can be done in cities if the public transport enjoys enough priority over cars, and/or if parking is enough of a hassle. A cheap and frequent service (requiring only an affordable subsidy, or perhaps no subsidy at all) may have car-owners voluntarily take public transport and leave the car at home.

But in rural areas?

First, the car experience is less bad, so you have a bigger hill to climb.

There are fewer traffic jams, and where you do get them (eg heading into Bakewell on market day or a summer Sunday), it isn't viable to offer priority to the bus. So your bus isn't going to be any quicker than the car.

The one lever to worsening the car experience is to make parking miserable and/or very expensive, and the Peak District National Park Authority hint at this ("Non-residential parking will be restricted in order to discourage car use"). But you can only go so far - if your visitors only come occasionally, then they may not know that there isn't enough parking, and come anyway.
How much collateral damage (delayed buses, businesses losing trade) are you willing to accept as the inevitable cost of having the less well-informed (or more dogged) car-borne visitors jamming up your town as they circle round seeking a scarce space?

Secondly, bus services cannot match the frequencies in cities. To take the Bakewell example, some people may only want to visit the town centre, then go home again. For them, if they live somewhere with a direct service, the bus might just look attractive if it was cheap enough (or free).

But Bakewell (like many other rural destinations) just isn't a full-day visit - and many will want to do something else as part of their trip. But in rural areas the next attractions are just so much further apart and less reachable than in a city.

When you have had enough of Greenwich, you can be in London Bridge or Canary Wharf in ten minutes. Both have frequent services, 7 days a week.

From Bakewell, the nearest major attraction is Chatsworth House (5 miles: two buses an hour). A walk? Perhaps in Youlgrave (5 miles: seven buses a day, but none on Sundays). Or Over Haddon (2 miles: four buses a day, none on Sundays) or Monsal Head (3 miles: no buses)

Even if buses were three or four times as frequent, and free, there is no way that useful numbers of car users would choose the bus for a multi-destination day out in a rural area. You have to organise your movements to fit the timetables, and if you hit a delay (a baby needs changing, a toddler has a tantrum, Grandad has left his glasses in the cafe) you are at best facing a substantial wait, and at worst you end up stranded.

So, Modal Shift is an enormous challenge. It will need additional restrictions on car use (cost, rationing, deliberate delay) to get useful numbers out of their cars and onto even the best of bus services.

Until and unless we are willing to do that, modest improvements to bus services are not going to achieve any significant level of Modal Shift.

Most of us said goodbye to badges that said "I tried" when we left primary school, but in local transport, there seems to be a pervasive feeling that feeble gestures are better than nothing. I can't see that they are.
 

derbybusdepot

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Earlier you seemed to be asking for more frequent services on other routes, yet this post suggests that wouldn't matter as you are more concerned about cost, reliability and extra journey times of using buses so I'm not really sure what would tempt you out of your car?
That is why it is such a challenge to change peoples travelling behaviour. It is usually much simpler, quicker and cheaper to drive. That is the general perception that needs to be changed to make any difference. £2 fare scheme touches upon making a difference, but I'm not convinced it has a huge impact.

Isn't the bus service improvement plan meant to make travel simpler and easier. The introduction of the bus only all operator wayfarer ticket an example of simplifying this, as is the £2 single - clear cost.

This open top service contradicts all that, aimed at people who have parked in Chatsworth or Bakewell to have a ride on a bus? I'm sure it will be popular anyway, so not sure why it requires funding. If anything the service should run via some sort of park and ride to keep more cars out of the area and reduce congestion. Or is that the plan for Chatsworth?

Perhaps all will be clearer with Stagecoach publicity.
 

WAB

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You have so neatly summed up the big challenge of achieving Modal Shift in rural areas.

Anyone who is already has use of a car is already paying the (heavy) fixed costs - interest lost, age-based depreciation, time-based servicing, insurance.

To tempt them to leave that vehicle at home and take public transport instead, then the combination of cost, convenience and experience needs to be better than if they use the car.
Yes, I mean look at last buses out of Buxton. Few after 1800, and only the skyline after 2100. No watching an opera there unless you can go by train to your destination (or indeed getting an evening meal there) - you can't even get to Matlock and Derby after 1800! Of course you're going to drive if you actually want to visit most of the area.
 

ChrisC

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That is why it is such a challenge to change peoples travelling behaviour. It is usually much simpler, quicker and cheaper to drive. That is the general perception that needs to be changed to make any difference. £2 fare scheme touches upon making a difference, but I'm not convinced it has a huge impact.

Isn't the bus service improvement plan meant to make travel simpler and easier. The introduction of the bus only all operator wayfarer ticket an example of simplifying this, as is the £2 single - clear cost.

This open top service contradicts all that, aimed at people who have parked in Chatsworth or Bakewell to have a ride on a bus? I'm sure it will be popular anyway, so not sure why it requires funding. If anything the service should run via some sort of park and ride to keep more cars out of the area and reduce congestion. Or is that the plan for Chatsworth?

Perhaps all will be clearer with Stagecoach publicity.
It’s irregular and over complicated routes and timetables which often discourage me from leaving my car at home and travelling for days out by bus. Large gaps in the afternoon timetables with different times on school days at just the time I want to travel home just puts me off trying. As someone who lives over the border in Nottinghamshire more regular interval timetables on routes between Alfreton/Ripley, Crich and Matlock would be very helpful. It’s often easier to travel the much longer route via Chesterfield than trying to get a bus between Matlock and Alfreton.
 
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derbybusdepot

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I also understand why people do not agree with BSIP funding being used for the open top services. Surely if not accepting wayfarers/passes it would be viable without funding? Are such "tourist" routes funded elsewhere?

Of course we don't know how much funding is allocated, and who keeps what percentage of profit etc.
 

Russel

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Earlier you seemed to be asking for more frequent services on other routes, yet this post suggests that wouldn't matter as you are more concerned about cost, reliability and extra journey times of using buses so I'm not really sure what would tempt you out of your car?

Yes, I was suggesting more frequent services, but you're missing the point, the money could be used to improve rural routes, such as the currently 2 hourly 173, for the local community, rather than subsidising tourist attractions.
 

tom1649

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The lack of an evening service between Bakewell and Buxton has been a glaring omission for years. If the railway had remained, there would, no doubt, be a regular service throughout the evening. I'm surprised the BSIP funding hasn't addressed this.
 

WAB

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The lack of an evening service between Bakewell and Buxton has been a glaring omission for years. If the railway had remained, there would, no doubt, be a regular service throughout the evening. I'm surprised the BSIP funding hasn't addressed this.
Another reason why buses are considered to be inferior to trains. I can't think of many examples in provincial England where the last train leaves before the last bus on the equivalent route.
 

43055

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Looks like 3 breakdowns for trent today. Both X38 branded Volvo's only made it until the early afternoon with 2 spares being found from other routes later on meaning a almost 3 hour gap in trent's services. Volvo 741 was out on the villager until around 0830 on the A516 between Mickleover and Etwall according the bus times. The vehicle was only being recovered at 1645. Probably because it was recovering other dead trent buses!

In better news it has been reported on the derbybusdepot forum that the first of the new E200 MMC's for trent has started to be built.
 

edwin_m

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Another reason why buses are considered to be inferior to trains. I can't think of many examples in provincial England where the last train leaves before the last bus on the equivalent route.
That's not a reason to (re)open a railway. It's a reason to commit much smaller amounts of public money to ensure rural areas get a decent bus service.
 

THC

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Do bus operators get consulted when local authorities decide whether to offer a licence to a major event? (In an ideal world, someone like Transport Focus would also be consulted, and make appropriate representations - but as far as I can tell, they mostly just write things down and put them in filing cabinets).

Modest delays to those not attending an event must be considered unavoidable collateral damage, I guess - and it is reasonable to expect people to plan journeys to accommodate a bit of delay. But how much delay is it reasonable to expect people to cope with? Nobody times their journey, even to an exam, hospital appointment, wedding, funeral, or flight to accommodate a delay of four or five hours.

At some point, surely someone should say No to licensing of an event with arrangements that can reasonably be anticipated to see innocent people delayed for several hours.
In two-tier areas, transport is a strategic function so sits with the county council whereas licensing is a local issue and sits with the relevant district. Although arrangements should be in place, there is no guarantee that the two tiers communicate on such issues.

THC
 

Deerfold

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Another reason why buses are considered to be inferior to trains. I can't think of many examples in provincial England where the last train leaves before the last bus on the equivalent route.
And most of those are run by Transdev.
 

station_road

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Yes, I was suggesting more frequent services, but you're missing the point, the money could be used to improve rural routes, such as the currently 2 hourly 173, for the local community, rather than subsidising tourist attractions.
The 173 has a very good service for such a rural area, with a first bus arriving in Bakewell before 0800 and last bus back at 1745 - there are many town routes in England with a worse service than that.
 

BJames

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Looks like 3 breakdowns for trent today. Both X38 branded Volvo's only made it until the early afternoon with 2 spares being found from other routes later on meaning a almost 3 hour gap in trent's services. Volvo 741 was out on the villager until around 0830 on the A516 between Mickleover and Etwall according the bus times. The vehicle was only being recovered at 1645. Probably because it was recovering other dead trent buses!

In better news it has been reported on the derbybusdepot forum that the first of the new E200 MMC's for trent has started to be built.
I didn't get a chance to look properly but there appeared to be one of the red arrow's broken down at QMC on its way to Nottingham (perhaps it got going again quickly?) at around 16:10ish - there was a second red arrow coach immediately behind it in service.
 
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