Southern (GTR) - Trainee Train Driver (Future vacancies) - Various depots (02/06/23)

[NSEWonderer]

You cant fail any elements more then twice that is the point. You can fail individual elements yes but you can't fail any element of the process more then twice. I remember failing the first time I did mine and was specifically told I had 1 more attempt at the tests and that was it, been driving over 15 years now so I've been through the process.
Yes the tests got reset and changed but the element of 2 attempts has never changed. If since the tests changed you have failed any part of the process of psychometric testing twice you are ineligible to apply again and do the tests. Telling people they can fail one element of the test once is correct but if you fail any of the other parts on your 2nd attempt then its game over. If you failed one test then came back and attempted the tests again and passed that but then went on to fail another element then you don't keep getting another attempt to pass that specific test otherwise people could just keep failing one test each time, apply again and pass it and then fail another one etc until they passed them all, thats not how it works. Its 2 FAILS of any part of the process , you can take the tests as many times as you like if you pass them.

As Class2ldn says this is exactly it. Where I assume the confusion might be coming with is the VSE and DFTT stuff some TOCs use during test day. That doesn't always affect your two lives on other TOC applications.

 

[Class2ldn]

As Class2ldn says this is exactly it. Where I assume the confusion might be coming with is the VSE and DFTT stuff some TOCs use during test day. That doesn't always affect your two lives on other TOC applications.

Yeah correct, I didn't have to do them so not clued up on that so apologies if we are getting wires crossed lol.
I'm specifically talking about the opc tests under test conditions which form the base tests

 

[Amal]

As Class2ldn says this is exactly it. Where I assume the confusion might be coming with is the VSE and DFTT stuff some TOCs use during test day. That doesn't always affect your two lives on other TOC applications.

Agree

 

[NSEWonderer]

Yeah correct, I didn't have to do them so not clued up on that so apologies if we are getting wires crossed lol.
I'm specifically talking about the opc tests under test conditions which form the base tests

Nah you're fine Class2ldn and dang I'd hope to reach 15 years in the front end when I start!

 

[sleepinghobby]

miniSCAAT (can take up to 30 minutes. I did mine in maybe 7 minutes)

3 tests based on the same grid.

All alphabetical letters, some capitalised, some lowercase so 52 characters

Test 1: Find the letter 'C' in each line
Test 2: Find the letters 'B' and 'v' in each line
Test 3: Find the letter 'T' in each line. Additionally, select the first letter of each line including all the other times in occurs in each line. Eg. 'T' and 'a' or 'T' and 'b' or 'T' and 'Q'.

This is the 3rd time I have done this. I remember in the other formats, I had to distinguish between C, <, {, ( and similar variations with differeing orientations and sizes. V v ^ etc.

 

[DontPlayBoxing]

On my day with gtr we did three tests and a break and then the rest .During the break the OPC marked the first three tests. Half the room got sent home, 9 iirc and the other 9 did the other tests. 7 of us got invites and dates for stage two and 2 didn't as they didn't pass the dfft.

Thats quite interesting how it varies for different groups, also quite surprising you had a group of 18, our group was 5-6 I believe.

I think that must play a part in why there are so many conflicting answers on here when it comes to the whole process.

 

[baz962]

Thats quite interesting how it varies for different groups, also quite surprising you had a group of 18, our group was 5-6 I believe.

I think that must play a part in why there are so many conflicting answers on here when it comes to the whole process.

Yes it was a big group. We were all lined up outside after the break and they called people in one by one. First one came out, shook their head and left and the second and so on. We were trying to guess if they were calling people in alphabetical order etc. But they weren't. The first three didn't pass to any standard and then they called people that had passed only to national. Then after they had been sent home an OPC staff just came out and said to the rest of us as a group , congratulations you have all got through. This is one of the reasons I know that it isn't just extra tests that make a toc enhanced. This was in a hotel in Croydon.

 

[DontPlayBoxing]

Yes it was a big group. We were all lined up outside after the break and they called people in one by one. First one came out, shook their head and left and the second and so on. We were trying to guess if they were calling people in alphabetical order etc. But they weren't. The first three didn't pass to any standard and then they called people that had passed only to national. Then after they had been sent home an OPC staff just came out and said to the rest of us as a group , congratulations you have all got through. This is one of the reasons I know that it isn't just extra tests that make a toc enhanced. This was in a hotel in Croydon.

Was this recent?

 

[Chrysalis]

miniSCAAT (can take up to 30 minutes. I did mine in maybe 7 minutes)

3 tests based on the same grid.

All alphabetical letters, some capitalised, some lowercase so 52 characters

Test 1: Find the letter 'C' in each line
Test 2: Find the letters 'B' and 'v' in each line
Test 3: Find the letter 'T' in each line. Additionally, select the first letter of each line including all the other times in occurs in each line. Eg. 'T' and 'a' or 'T' and 'b' or 'T' and 'Q'.

This is the 3rd time I have done this. I remember in the other formats, I had to distinguish between C, <, {, ( and similar variations with differeing orientations and sizes. V v ^ etc.

Hey, thanks! That's really informative. Did you do the tests on a computer? If so, did you use the arrows on the keyboard or the mouse? Are you able to switch between cells or is it like the practice tool on this forum where you can only go back a single cell? I know you shouldn't look at previous cells but if you realise just a couple of cells before the current cell that you missed one it'd be good to be able to go back.

 

[baz962]

Was this recent?

2017

 

[sleepinghobby]

Hey, thanks! That's really informative. Did you do the tests on a computer? If so, did you use the arrows on the keyboard or the mouse? Are you able to switch between cells or is it like the practice tool on this forum where you can only go back a single cell? I know you shouldn't look at previous cells but if you realise just a couple of cells before the current cell that you missed one it'd be good to be able to go back.

I did it on a laptop with mouse. It would be difficult to do this on a trackpad and I personally would struggle. You can go back and deselect if you have made a mistake. How you do complete it is up to you - you are not necessarily confined to approaching each line left to right, cell by cell so if you have forgotten to select a cell and discovered the error later, you can go back and select it. This means you can approach the tests whac-a-mole style to prioritise speed if you want. However, in the real assessments, I believe once you have gone past a cell, you cannot go back to it or if you do, you are penalised for it. You have to approach the task cell by cell on each line. The first time I did the miniSCAAT, I employed the Whac-a-mole strategy. The second and third time, I employed the methodical cell by cell strategy as I feel employing good habits would serve me better if I get to the real assessment.

I don't think you should worry too much about this particular assessment. I passed it 2/2 with less than ideal circumstances and little prep. I think the important thing is you don't make mistakes (select incorrect cells or miss out cells that should be selected often). I could be wrong but the miniSCAAT is just another easy tool by the TOC to narrow the number of candidates. I feel it is used to reward consistent error free work over speed. As long as you go over half way and make no more than 2 mistakes every 5 lines, you should be fine. This is only based on my personal experience having taken it twice before. If you are working with a laptop, please consider getting a mouse to complete it.

I also wanted to add one tiny ity about the cell-by-cell strategy - naturally, I feel comfortable working top left to top right then bottom right to bottom left then bottom left to bottom right in the shape of an S or snake selecting other cells from other lines if nearby and I spot it but one thing I was concious of is if I am working from right to left and the timer has run out, I will miss out cells which chronologically appear first and may be penalised for inaccuracy. When I got half way through, I employed the cell by cell strategy.

 

[TP113]

Just got my email from Southern confirming I have passed the SJT and will be contacted by OPC for SCAAT test shortly.

I already hold passes to enhanced standard with OPC. I'm wondering if I pull out now, as I don't want to jeopardise my passes.

Thoughts?

Just a small update and to give the whole picture. I am currently in a talent pool with another TOC and they require the enhanced standard but i did not have to complete this test with them. They used the CBI.

I have emailed the OPC to ask if this test has any consequences on my other passes, e.g. if I fail the miniSCAAT will i be removed from the talent pool.

The OPC have replied they are not running this test and I haven't been invited by them and they are unable to provide any information. It appears although on the face of it the OPC invited me to take it, its actually being run by GTR and the OPC asked me to contact them for clarity.

I am wondering if I do contact GTR and reveal I am in another TOC's talent pool how this will look to them and would this effect my chances with them?

I believe GTR use the MMI not CBI so at time down the line I would need to make a decision if I wanted to do the MMI as this overwrites the CBI.

I don't want to jeopodise my place in the Talent pool, but equally I know some people never get out the talent pool.

 

[DontPlayBoxing]

Just a small update and to give the whole picture. I am currently in a talent pool with another TOC and they require the enhanced standard but i did not have to complete this test with them. They used the CBI.

I have emailed the OPC to ask if this test has any consequences on my other passes, e.g. if I fail the miniSCAAT will i be removed from the talent pool.

The OPC have replied they are not running this test and I haven't been invited by them and they are unable to provide any information. It appears although on the face of it the OPC invited me to take it, its actually being run by GTR and the OPC asked me to contact them for clarity.

I am wondering if I do contact GTR and reveal I am in another TOC's talent pool how this will look to them and would this effect my chances with them?

I believe GTR use the MMI not CBI so at time down the line I would need to make a decision if I wanted to do the MMI as this overwrites the CBI.

I don't want to jeopodise my place in the Talent pool, but equally I know some people never get out the talent pool.

Personally, I think I would contact them and ask the question.

Its great making it to the talent pool but without a contract of employment thats all it is and like you said, you dont really know how long you are going to be waiting or if the wait ever ends.

 

[Tb12]

Just a small update and to give the whole picture. I am currently in a talent pool with another TOC and they require the enhanced standard but i did not have to complete this test with them. They used the CBI.

I have emailed the OPC to ask if this test has any consequences on my other passes, e.g. if I fail the miniSCAAT will i be removed from the talent pool.

The OPC have replied they are not running this test and I haven't been invited by them and they are unable to provide any information. It appears although on the face of it the OPC invited me to take it, its actually being run by GTR and the OPC asked me to contact them for clarity.

I am wondering if I do contact GTR and reveal I am in another TOC's talent pool how this will look to them and would this effect my chances with them?

I believe GTR use the MMI not CBI so at time down the line I would need to make a decision if I wanted to do the MMI as this overwrites the CBI.

I don't want to jeopodise my place in the Talent pool, but equally I know some people never get out the talent pool.

The miniscaat will not ruin any of the assessments you did in person. These are just for GTR to reduce the number down. However failing the miniscaat will mean you could only try again 1 more time with GTR.

I was in a similar situation with asking a TOC about something but it would have meant they knew I was in the running for another job. I decided against contacting them as I thought that any reason they have to get rid of people on their list they will due to the sheer amount of applications they receive.

Also remember your 'enhanced' level you achieved at the OPC would have been enhanced for that TOC/FOC and might not reach GTR enhanced level. Just something to bear in mind

 

[JaxC]

Hi all,

I sat my mini scaat assessment almost 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing back since. Is this normal? I know these roles are usually long processes but I imagined the ‘at home exams’ would just have automated emails to say if you passed or not.

My application status still says application submitted so it’s not been cancelled which is a good sign (I think)!

Thanks

 

[sleepinghobby]

I believe at least one person has been rejected post mini-SCAAT so hearing nothing is a good sign.

 

[Chrysalis]

Hi all,

I sat my mini scaat assessment almost 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing back since. Is this normal? I know these roles are usually long processes but I imagined the ‘at home exams’ would just have automated emails to say if you passed or not.

My application status still says application submitted so it’s not been cancelled which is a good sign (I think)!

Thanks

I think it's probably normal. I completed the mini SCAAT the day before the deadline and heard nothing up to five minutes ago when I received a mail saying I've moved on to the next step!

 

[TP113]

Hi all,

I sat my mini scaat assessment almost 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing back since. Is this normal? I know these roles are usually long processes but I imagined the ‘at home exams’ would just have automated emails to say if you passed or not.

My application status still says application submitted so it’s not been cancelled which is a good sign (I think)!

Thanks

I have only just heard back ( last 30 mins) so you may hear very shortly. Good luck

 

[sleepinghobby]

Heard back at 14:41 today.

 

[Javelin_55]

I completed the miniscaat the day before the deadline and heard just before the the weekend that I passed.

There doesn't seem to be any logic to this stuff but as others have said, hearing nothing is a good sign.

 

[NSEWonderer]

What's the next stage? Assessment center?

 

[JaxC]

Hi all,

I also heard back last night a few hours after posting!

Assessment centre next, best of luck to the rest of you on yours too

 

[Mattydo]

Often with these extra at home tests used entirely for shifting really you may find it is based on highest scoring candidates rather than a set pass mark. Some TOCs are quite explicit about this others, I suspect, use that method but may not mention it. It then makes sense if you don't hear back until all candidates are done unless you already fall below the threshold.

 

[Ludus]

Am I right in thinking GTR use the following tests on assessment day:

SCAAT, TEA-OCC, TRP-1, TRP-2, WAFV, AART, 2 Hand Coordination Test and DFFT

Are there any others I'm missing? Do GTR use the VSE or Mechanical Comprehension?

 

[Chrysalis]

Am I right in thinking GTR use the following tests on assessment day:


Are there any others I'm missing? Do GTR use the VSE or Mechanical Comprehension?

I don't think they'll do SCAAT on the assessment day, as we did a mini version online already and are doing the group Bourdon test (which is very similar). I also don't think we'll do the mechanical comprehension test. It is my understanding that this test is quite outdated for the train driver role. Not sure about VSE (an absolute guess would be no).

 

[Ludus]

I don't think they'll do SCAAT on the assessment day, as we did a mini version online already and are doing the group Bourdon test (which is very similar). I also don't think we'll do the mechanical comprehension test. It is my understanding that this test is quite outdated for the train driver role. Not sure about VSE (an absolute guess would be no).

From what I've gathered with enhanced TOCs it's either the DFFT or VSE test, but not both. Given GTR use DFFT I'd also guess we won't be doing the VSE, but would be nice to have that 100% confirmed.

Regarding the SCAAT, the fact we've done the mini-SCAAT implies to me that we'll be doing the full SCAAT on the day? I know the SCAAT and GB are both the same tests in principle but it seems to be another scenario where it's either one or the other, again, I'm not sure which one GTR use.

 

[Chrysalis]

From what I've gathered with enhanced TOCs it's either the DFFT or VSE test, but not both. Given GTR use DFFT I'd also guess we won't be doing the VSE, but would be nice to have that 100% confirmed.

Regarding the SCAAT, the fact we've done the mini-SCAAT implies to me that we'll be doing the full SCAAT on the day? I know the SCAAT and GB are both the same tests in principle but it seems to be another scenario where it's either one or the other, again, I'm not sure which one GTR use.

I'm trying to sit tight and be patient but I haven't been able to resist googling what we'll likely do on the assessment day and I haven't seen VSE mentioned for Southern. But let's wait for someone else to confirm this.

I can guarantee you that we will be doing group Bourdon on the day. I haven't seen a single person mention they don't do this test. It seems like this test has been part of the national assessment set for train drivers for a few decades.

MMI is also part of the official assessments we'll do and some TOCs have you do it on the day but unsure with Southern.

 

[bruebunny]

Has anyone heard back anything regarding Selhurst yet?

 

[Mabs]

I did the National standard tests with GWR, I did the SCAAT and DFFT with GTR and VSE with Chilterns.

Still waiting for the DMI.

 

[Chrysalis]

Anyone heard anything at all about the assessment dates? Trying to be patient...